Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tordek 08-29-07, 02:33 AM	Ok, so here's how it goes. Its a ballista bolt, with a long empty shaft down the middle. In the head of the bolt is a small portable hole, open and secured with its 'down side' on the front interior wall. At the far end is a bag of holding, held in place by some mechanism. Now, when the bolt impacts, the bag comes loose, and flies forward inside the bolt. It enters the portable hole and causes a temporary rift in the astral plane, sucking in everything within a few dozen yards. Thoughts?
Dog_O_War 08-29-07, 02:59 AM	Holy expensive batman. The best seige weapon will forever remain time.
Prince_of_Parkness 08-29-07, 03:30 AM	Ok, so here's how it goes. Its a ballista bolt, with a long empty shaft down the middle. In the head of the bolt is a small portable hole, open and secured with its 'down side' on the front interior wall. At the far end is a bag of holding, held in place by some mechanism. Now, when the bolt impacts, the bag comes loose, and flies forward inside the bolt. It enters the portable hole and causes a temporary rift in the astral plane, sucking in everything within a few dozen yards. Thoughts? Sounds very much like the spiralbirst bottle from book of vile darkness. Mine would be a catapult set to cast stone to mud on impact
Watchman 08-29-07, 07:57 AM	Granted, garrisons often start getting a lot more attentive to suggestions of surrendering the fortress when they no longer have much in the way of walls to defend... which isn't entirely unconnected to the way the besiegers tend to bring at least a 5-to-1 numerical superiority by default, against which the defenders are obviously rather dependent on the force-multiplier of the fortifications. ;)
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-29-07, 08:01 AM	Best siege weapon ever = frenzied berserker and a catapult to launch him over the wall, where he can't see you when he takes falling damage and freaks out.
Spikes01k 08-29-07, 08:27 AM	Best siege weapon ever = frenzied berserker and a catapult to launch him over the wall, where he can't see you when he takes falling damage and freaks out. Don't for get the continual anti magic field he would have up. My own idea- Have as many bags as you can made in this fashion A small bag is made with the fire trap spell cast on it. That bag is placed into the center of a bag of cattle trops. Tie all these bast together and make sure that a single rope is tied to all the strings keeping the bags with fire trap on them. Make sure that rope is a VERY long. Catapult the bags clumped together where you want them. Then have a bunch of people, other than the caster, pulls on the rope setting off the fire traps. Bang! explosive weaponry.
Sledgerosaur 08-29-07, 12:56 PM	Chuck norris tied to pun-pun tied to a ballista bolt. seriously though, titans are a good "living seige weaponary" thier bows are the same size as ballistas, almost nothing can kill them and they are really cheap to hire! (if you can hire an ogre mage for 16gp a day you can hire a titan for less than 3k IMO)
tarkin 08-29-07, 12:56 PM	Too expensive for what you get.
psionichamster 08-29-07, 01:05 PM	sounds ok...but way too pricey for the effect much better to simply buy a scroll of "Black Sphere of Destruction" and melt holes in the walls of your target. probably while the wizard / sorcerer is shapechanged into a beholder and disintegrating key sections (hell, the whole wall) of the fortifications. while greater invisible'd. so, no, your ballista bolt of destruction is less effective, both in terms of cost efficiency and destructive capability, than a 17th lvl wiz. -the hamster
supersod 08-29-07, 05:41 PM	this made me do a dance of amazing idea-ment, 4 immovable rods in a ballista bolt, \_______________________________________ ____________ ------------------------------------------------------------\ immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod------> ------------------------------------------------------------/ / when the bolt hits the back of it hits the button on the immovable rod and stays there which impales the bbeg/hired titan/i have lost sight of why im doing this. and he has to stay there, or make a strength check and risk pulling out thier intestines to find the button
Alchahest 08-31-07, 09:17 PM	this made me do a dance of amazing idea-ment, 4 immovable rods in a ballista bolt, \_______________________________________ ____________ ------------------------------------------------------------\ immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod------> ------------------------------------------------------------/ / when the bolt hits the back of it hits the button on the immovable rod and stays there which impales the bbeg/hired titan/i have lost sight of why im doing this. and he has to stay there, or make a strength check and risk pulling out thier intestines to find the button I'm sure a titan can muster a DC 25 strength check. especially when he's angry ;)
Sajek 09-01-07, 10:11 AM	I've always prefered casting Explosive Runes on a small scrap of paper, doing this as many times as you want, then stuffing all the runes into a bag (let's assume 100 pieces of paper). Simply sneak up to the enemy wall while invisible, place the bag at the weakest point, and cast area Dispel Magic, delibrately failing the check. Another creature can remove them with a successful dispel magic or erase spell, but attempting to dispel or erase the runes and failing to do so triggers the explosion.This makes all the runes go off at once, dealing 600d6 to the wall section.
Hsien 09-01-07, 01:01 PM	Passwall spell or a few to make a tunnel is a lot cheaper, or summon some Earth Elementals. Our parties druid is focused on shifting, and just recently discovered how useful a Delver is. I have a question, don't have books on me atm... are ballista bolts/catapult rounds considered ammunition for purposes of enchanting? If so that may have some benefits.
m o n k 09-01-07, 07:09 PM	OP: Your idea is creative and fun, even if it is too ineffective relative to the cost. I'm sure the effect would be cool to witness and terrifying for the defenders.
Angatyr 09-02-07, 08:49 PM	Catapult shot/ballista bolt with a necklace of fireballs and a vial of alchemical fire. It hits, vial breaks KABLOOIE!
Majick 09-03-07, 07:09 AM	Goliath with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Great Crossbow) a large great crossbow does 3d8 (for those who don't know, that's the same damage as a BALLISTA)
DrStalker 09-03-07, 09:13 AM	Player characters. They can break anything.
Devlonir 09-03-07, 10:48 AM	Cheapest way to beat an enemy fortress: Greater Scrying on the location of the enemy leader. Than create a Teleportation Circle to that exact location. Sure, only one of your guys can get in each turn, but they just keep coming and coming in. Send in the Frenzied Berserker first, and before they actually realized he is unkillable for a number of rounds, you will have 10-20 guys in already... And that at the exact location of the enemy leader. Use a massive attack on their defenses as a diversion, and you got easy pickings. As soon as their leader is dead and they still keep fighting, they already have a large and ever growing strike force inside their wall. The effect of this attack grows with each teleportation circle you create. At least, that's how i would do it.
RikuKupo 09-03-07, 11:18 AM	The best seige weapon? A kineticist. "I can make a cone of sonic, missles of sonic, lines of sonic, spheres of sonic, a shorter cone of sonic, a longer cone of sonic, rays of sonic..."
supersod 09-03-07, 04:12 PM	aside from my super duper crossbow: (Quote: Originally Posted by supersod this made me do a dance of amazing idea-ment, 4 immovable rods in a ballista bolt, \_______________________________________ ____________ ------------------------------------------------------------\ immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod immovable rod------> ------------------------------------------------------------/ / when the bolt hits the back of it hits the button on the immovable rod and stays there which impales the bbeg/hired titan/i have lost sight of why im doing this. and he has to stay there, or make a strength check and risk pulling out thier intestines to find the button) is an enormous cork stopper in their main waste pipe XD
Karish 09-03-07, 06:38 PM	Best seige weapon ever.... Let me think of one. Catapult launching a scatter shot of small magical peppeles, all of which actually spell-storing items. Millions of stones scatter over the wall, and the stones are all given the command word to unleash a <i>meteor storm</i>, centered on themselves.
cjhobbitbane 09-05-07, 10:05 AM	best siege weapon? titanium elemental
forsaken1111 09-05-07, 01:45 PM	Actually just teleport a planar shepherd up and let him do his 100ft radius planar translocation trick on the walls. Suddenly 100ft of the walls walls are on the plane of fluffy bunnies and your armies are free to charge. Bonus? Fluffy bunnies come through the transposition, confusing people and feeding your armies.
Radijs 09-05-07, 04:00 PM	URANIUM KATANA! Sorry I just had to say it.
ninja1 09-06-07, 02:16 PM	Now, when the bolt impacts, the bag comes loose, and flies forward inside the bolt. It enters the portable hole and causes a temporary rift in the astral plane, sucking in everything within a few dozen yards. Thoughts? It would be better with the order reversed... a portable hole folded in a small, neat package is plunged into the opening of a bag of holding. "If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process." That way you get the "10-foot" radius gate as collateral damage... best siege weapon? titanium elemental I love me some Order of the Stick! :D
Legdiwena 09-06-07, 02:25 PM	Stone to mud doesn't work on worked stone, like a castle's walls.
ninja1 09-06-07, 03:09 PM	If the attacker had time to prepare, I'd prefer Shrink Item (extended even) cast as many times as possible on Wall's of Stone and massive Bonfires... then fly invisibly overhead (well out of range of most -unenhanced- archer types)... and drop away. Pretty cost effective... If you're the one casting the spells that is... ;)
Hsien 09-06-07, 03:27 PM	It would be better with the order reversed... a portable hole folded in a small, neat package is plunged into the opening of a bag of holding. "If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process." That way you get the "10-foot" radius gate as collateral damage... I love me some Order of the Stick! :D Most castles walls are not creatures, so that would not great a hole in the wall. An expensive failed experiment. How about ceramic/glass catapult ammo filled with Delver acid? I forget the details but know its good against stone. Long term seige: time, sun, and weather (rain/wind/humidity)
Radijs 09-07-07, 07:03 AM	Stone to flesh on a bolt? That would make for one messy siege.
Watchman 09-07-07, 07:09 AM	Ought to make starving the defenders out somewhat difficult though.
Radijs 09-07-07, 07:52 AM	Nah because after that you'll go with Flesh to Salt and then a cloudburst. The wall melts away. Problem solved.
Someone 09-07-07, 12:12 PM	I'd say a giant wooden statue of a horse as an offering to the gods as you break off your siege and sail away worked pretty well. Nah because after that you'll go with Flesh to Salt and then a cloudburst. The wall melts away. Problem solved.Which would also deal with all the giant slugs in the moat...
Watchman 09-07-07, 02:23 PM	That was an originally Assyrian siege engine you know. One ever-popular and actually fairly cost-efficient method is good old bribery, or "shooting with golden powder" as it has also been called. Even if the garrison commander cannot be turned (it wasn't unusual for their bosses to implicitly hold relatives hostage to ensure loyalty), as few as one soldier may be enough to let an assault party through in sufficient strength - AFAIK back during the First Crusade the lenghty siege of Antioch was concluded mainly by one of the Frankish commanders managing to bribe an officer in charge of one of the towers.
forsaken1111 09-07-07, 02:38 PM	Ought to make starving the defenders out somewhat difficult though. Flesh has a very low nutritional value. If anything they would die of scurvy and malnutrition. It would be funny to research a specific application of Animate Dead to include dead flesh of any type. Stone to Flesh a building, Animate Dead the buildingzombie. yay!
cjhobbitbane 09-07-07, 02:39 PM	That was an originally Assyrian siege engine you know. One ever-popular and actually fairly cost-efficient method is good old bribery, or "shooting with golden powder" as it has also been called. Even if the garrison commander cannot be turned (it wasn't unusual for their bosses to implicitly hold relatives hostage to ensure loyalty), as few as one soldier may be enough to let an assault party through in sufficient strength - AFAIK back during the First Crusade the lenghty siege of Antioch was concluded mainly by one of the Frankish commanders managing to bribe an officer in charge of one of the towers. does the siege of antioch by any chance include a holy hand grenade? theoretical siege engine, portable hole on a rock, filled with zombies or skeletons, get it over the wall not intoit
forsaken1111 09-07-07, 02:47 PM	does the siege of antioch by any chance include a holy hand grenade? theoretical siege engine, portable hole on a rock, filled with zombies or skeletons, get it over the wall not intoit Nah, portable hole must be spread out to be used. Better would be a hollow catapult boulder filled with bags of holding. Each one contains as many soldiers as possible (Or undead). The boulder shatters on impact, the soldiers being in an extradimensional space feel nothing. After a 10 count they all climb out. Expensive way to deliver a few hundred men/undead inside the walls. Alternatly, just throw a single bag of holding tied to a rock to the top of the wall near the gatehouse in the dead of night. Let em sneak out and open the gates.
fatmandell 09-07-07, 03:10 PM	The best Way I've Found to empty any fortress or keep, is a 40 gallon barrel full of Dust of Dryness in its marble form. Using a catapult to fling the barrel over, You can flood any city out. The Science-y Bit, Assuming a marble has a diameter of 1/2", you would be able to fit 57,374 inside a standard sized keg. Dust of Dryness, absorbs up to 100 gallons of water. So when this keg breaks, it will release approximately 5,737,400 gallons of water, or about 21,718 cubic metres of water, which would flood almost every thing out. The only downside is that it would cost about 24,384,010gc to make by yourself, but think of the fun you have when you have a perfectly standing castle and the enemy has been flushed out. Never underestimate a geek with a Marine Biology Degree.
forsaken1111 09-07-07, 03:12 PM	The best Way I've Found to empty any fortress or keep, is a 40 gallon barrel full of Dust of Dryness in its marble form. Using a catapult to fling the barrel over, You can flood any city out. The Science-y Bit, Assuming a marble has a diameter of 1/2", you would be able to fit 57,374 inside a standard sized keg. Dust of Dryness, absorbs up to 100 gallons of water. So when this keg breaks, it will release approximately 5,737,400 gallons of water, or about 21,718 cubic metres of water, which would flood almost every thing out. The only downside is that it would cost about 24,384,010gc to make by yourself, but think of the fun you have when you have a perfectly standing castle and the enemy has been flushed out. Never underestimate a geek with a Marine Biology Degree. Are you certain a castle's stone structure will stand that much water pressure? Water is very heavy, and has a way of washing things away. Especially the medieval equivalent of morter.
Sledgerosaur 09-07-07, 04:27 PM	24,384,010 gc do you mean gp or something else? i think a good few Decanter of endless waters should help with the dust-filling if thats what you mean (correct me if i am wrong) :D
forsaken1111 09-07-07, 04:33 PM	Finding the water isn't the problem.. its finding enough dust.
Watchman 09-07-07, 07:16 PM	Are you certain a castle's stone structure will stand that much water pressure? Water is very heavy, and has a way of washing things away. Especially the medieval equivalent of morter.I'd imagine the gates and similar structurally weaker points went bust long before the walls you know. And that mortar served well enough in bridges, walls surrounded by moats (or rivers, or the sea) etc. so no worries about that - remember, already the Romans were using concrete as good as ours. Flesh has a very low nutritional value. If anything they would die of scurvy and malnutrition.That takes way longer than just plain starving out of an acute lack of anything digestible to eat (and you probably wouldn't believe what people will try to consume when desperate enough). Although throwing up an ad hoc emergency replacement wall section is going to be a pain and a half, especially if they can preserve that pile of meat somehow it's going to be a rather welcome addition to their somewhat rationed food supplies (recall that most decent fortresses had supplies to feed their garrisons for at least half a year straight, and usually way longer - sieges usually took a long time and were more often than not decided by food supplies). And what they can't preserve they can lob at the besieger to cause health problems. 'Course, if it was an important tower that got turned into mutton the garrison may well be raising the white flag right quick. Getting such a major defensive linchpin out of commission was often decisive, and capitulation under terms was usually preferred to the fortress falling to an assault and duly getting brutally sacked. does the siege of antioch by any chance include a holy hand grenade?Nah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Antioch). The immediate follow-up siege by the Turks did involve the discovery of the Holy Lance though - what now the senior Crusader leaders weren't exactly unanimously convinced of the authenticity of the relic. ;)
Gryllmyre 09-07-07, 07:46 PM	How about dropping hundreds of fliers into the enemy courtyard with the words "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning" written on them? Hmm... maybe mailing covert orders to strategic personnel to be opened simultaneously would be more effective.
Watchman 09-08-07, 12:55 PM	This is Medieval mail we're talking about (and not the kind made of iron that wards off swords). Plus the extra risk of both the letters and the bearer getting eaten on the road thanks to the multitudious population of weird critters around the place. Unless you A) live in the local equivalent of the Persian and Ottoman Empires or Mongol Khanate and can access the royal postal service B) teleport the letters to the recipients personally, you can right off forget the "simultaneously" bit and be glad if one of three letters sent even reaches whom you wanted... ...within the next half a year or so, depending on distance... ...okay, I'm exaggerating, but not by much. ;)
forsaken1111 09-08-07, 12:57 PM	This is Medieval mail we're talking about (and not the kind made of iron that wards off swords). Plus the extra risk of both the letters and the bearer getting eaten on the road thanks to the multitudious population of weird critters around the place. Unless you A) live in the local equivalent of the Persian and Ottoman Empires or Mongol Khanate and can access the royal postal service B) teleport the letters to the recipients personally, you can right off forget the "simultaneously" bit and be glad if one of three letters sent even reaches whom you wanted... ...okey, I'm exaggerating, but not by much. ;) Which is why they generally sent 2-3 riders with copies of important dispatches along separate roads.
Watchman 09-08-07, 01:30 PM	Or maintained secure roads, if you were a major power with the means to do so. Obviously any state that derived much of its wealth from overland trade routes was halfway there already just by the relevant infrastructure and patrols. All of which still doesn't keep assorted "acts of God" and any number of random happenstance from screwing the schedule up but good if you luck out, mind you. It was usually a bad idea to plan based on the timely arrival of letters even in the best of circumstances. But we're sending mail to the enemy here, remember ? Kinda limits your options if you don't want the ruse to leak. And given what amount of nasty business an incospicuous sheet of paper may hold given D&D magic, important people likely have letter-openers - in the same way as foodtasters - anyway... Or, more likely, some sort of trusted secretary-type underling handles most of the incoming mail. One of the universal marks of a big shot was (and remains), to quote one game, "why lift a finger when you can have servants do it for you?" after all. :cool: