Post/Author/DateTime	Post
borg286 07-12-07, 12:49 PM	A burnt out dull ioun stone, I'm told, costs 25gp. The most common thing to cast on it is continual light and use it instead of a torch. What are some other uses for dead Ioun stones?
Platstud 07-12-07, 01:07 PM	You could make a pretty necklace. Or cast Magic Stone on it and use it in a sling. Or stick 'em up your...sorry. Who cares, anyway? You can't do anything with them that you couldn't do with a regular old rock.
borg286 07-12-07, 01:13 PM	I guess I'll rephrase my question. What are some good spells that you can cast on rocks?
zorgling25 07-12-07, 01:15 PM	I guess I'll rephrase my question. What are some good spells that you can cast on rocks? Polymorph Any Object Silence The list is endless...
ravenshrike 07-12-07, 01:17 PM	Extended or Permanent Darkness, extremely useful for shadowdancers(given that as it's considered part of their equipment and not subject to AOE spells it hides with them) or shadowcraft gnomes. Or anyone who can see through magical darkness and doesn't like to be hit with precision based attacks(SA,DA, etc...) A permanancied Protection from X spell(can you do that to those?) which you toss in a bag of holding when not in use. Roleplaying at a major party, used as disco lights around an upside down golem in the ceiling with a bunch of low-level servant wizards casting prestidigitation on them to change light color
Platstud 07-12-07, 01:19 PM	Transmute Rock to Mud! Now you have MUD!!!!
Loki5654 07-12-07, 01:23 PM	A burnt out dull ioun stone, I'm told, costs 25gp. Which book is that in? I've seen that price bandied about quite a bit and have never liked it. After all, the DMG entry for ioun stones says that a dull grey stone is "forever useless". To me, this means it has no powers whatsoever. It seems like a large assumption to think that "forever useless" means "useless, except it still orbits so you can still use it for things".
borg286 07-12-07, 01:23 PM	Extended or Permanent Darkness, extremely useful for shadowdancers(given that as it's considered part of their equipment and not subject to AOE spells it hides with them) or shadowcraft gnomes. Or anyone who can see through magical darkness and doesn't like to be hit with precision based attacks(SA,DA, etc...) A permanancied Protection from X spell(can you do that to those?) which you toss in a bag of holding when not in use. Roleplaying at a major party, used as disco lights around an upside down golem in the ceiling with a bunch of low-level servant wizards casting prestidigitation on them to change light color I like the Permanent Darkness, as I have Darkvision. Question: would that give me concealment from enemies? A permanancied Protection from X spell. why would you put it into your bag of holding? I mean, I'm a bit new so what's the purpose?
borg286 07-12-07, 01:24 PM	Which book is that in? I've seen that price bandied about quite a bit and have never liked it. After all, the DMG entry for ioun stones says that a dull grey stone is "forever useless". To me, this means it has no powers whatsoever. It seems like a large assumption to think that "forever useless" means "useless, except it still orbits so you can still use it for things". http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13047233#post13047233
zorgling25 07-12-07, 01:32 PM	I like the Permanent Darkness, as I have Darkvision. Question: would that give me concealment from enemies? Darkvision does not let you avoid the penalty of a darkness spell.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 01:32 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13047233#post13047233 While interesting, that thread doesn't answer my question. The only things close to answering "What book is that in?" were: "Magic Item Compendium, no wait Oriental Adventures, no wait I'm not sure what book it is in." and "I think it used to be in 3.0 but got dropped in 3.5." Again, thank you for pointing me to an interesting related thread, but it did very little to answer my question.
Platstud 07-12-07, 01:37 PM	Which book is that in? I've seen that price bandied about quite a bit and have never liked it. After all, the DMG entry for ioun stones says that a dull grey stone is "forever useless". To me, this means it has no powers whatsoever. It seems like a large assumption to think that "forever useless" means "useless, except it still orbits so you can still use it for things". Wow! I didn't even realize people were suggesting that the thing still orbits. Of course it doesn't. What part of the terms, "Dead," "Burned Out," and "Forever Useless," are confusing? Don't be redonculous, people.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 01:43 PM	Wow! I didn't even realize people were suggesting that the thing still orbits. Of course it doesn't. What part of the terms, "Dead," "Burned Out," and "Forever Useless," are confusing? Don't be redonculous, people. Exactly my point. There is no difference between a dull grey ioun stone and a dull grey rock. The only reason to continue the distinction between "ioun stone" and "rock I found" is the obscure rule that a psionicist can destroy a dull grey ioun stone for 1 power point. I suppose this means it should have some monetary value, but it certainly doesn't mean it retains its power to orbit.
sensestaker 07-12-07, 01:44 PM	Which book is that in? I've seen that price bandied about quite a bit and have never liked it. After all, the DMG entry for ioun stones says that a dull grey stone is "forever useless". To me, this means it has no powers whatsoever. It seems like a large assumption to think that "forever useless" means "useless, except it still orbits so you can still use it for things". 3.0 DMG page 220. The bottom third of the page is a chart devoted to ioun stone colors, shapes, effects and market prices. The first one listed is Dull gray...Any...Merely orbits without further powers...25 gp
Mindolin 07-12-07, 01:45 PM	The main thing it is useful for is that it can still be used by a psion to get a single power point.
Malek2991 07-12-07, 01:45 PM	Which book is that in? I've seen that price bandied about quite a bit and have never liked it. After all, the DMG entry for ioun stones says that a dull grey stone is "forever useless". To me, this means it has no powers whatsoever. It seems like a large assumption to think that "forever useless" means "useless, except it still orbits so you can still use it for things". It is not useless to psionic characters (who can get 1 power point out of them before it is completely destroyed). Mindolin beat me to it.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 01:46 PM	3.0 DMG page 220. The bottom third of the page is a chart devoted to ioun stone colors, shapes, effects and market prices. The first one listed is Dull gray...Any...Merely orbits without further powers...25 gp Ah, 3.0. I see. Thank you for the page reference. I'm glad to see this was deliberately left out of 3.5.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 01:49 PM	The main thing it is useful for is that it can still be used by a psion to get a single power point. It is not useless to psionic characters (who can get 1 power point out of them before it is completely destroyed). I am well aware of that fact (I refernced it in a previous post). However, it is a giant illogical leap from "slightly useful to psionicists" to "it still orbits and is therefore useful to everyone. 3.5 got rid of the "still orbits" clause. This means that, to non-psionicists, its just a rock.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 01:56 PM	I am well aware of that fact (I refernced it in a previous post). However, it is a giant illogical leap from "slightly useful to psionicists" to "it still orbits and is therefore useful to everyone. 3.5 got rid of the "still orbits" clause. This means that, to non-psionicists, its just a rock. The fact that there is no specific replacement of the rule means that DMs can choose to keep the orbiting power if they want. Then again, they could choose to keep 3.0 Haste if they wanted...
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:01 PM	The fact that there is no specific replacement of the rule means that DMs can choose to keep the orbiting power if they want. Then again, they could choose to keep 3.0 Haste if they wanted... Well, yes. A DM can choose to do just about anything they want. But that's not really the point, is it?
Platstud 07-12-07, 02:03 PM	The fact that there is no specific replacement of the rule means that DMs can choose to keep the orbiting power if they want. Then again, they could choose to keep 3.0 Haste if they wanted... A DM can choose to make a fireball cure 3d8 non-lethal damage as a touch spell, if he wants: he has the final say in his game. That doesn't mean it's a rule.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:06 PM	A DM can choose to make a fireball cure 3d8 non-lethal damage as a touch spell, if he wants: he has the final say in his game. That doesn't mean it's a rule. See, fireball is given explicit damage. Its not explicitly stated that dull grey ioun stones don't fly around.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:16 PM	See, fireball is given explicit damage. Its not explicitly stated that dull grey ioun stones don't fly around. Its also not explicitly stated what actions a dead character can or cannot take. This means we apply common sense. Common sense says the "useless" means "unable to be used". The rules on psionics make one small exception to this, but other than that, useless means useless.
StruckingFuggle 07-12-07, 02:19 PM	3.5 got rid of the "still orbits" clause. This means that, to non-psionicists, its just a rock. Unless you import the rule from 3.0.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:21 PM	Common sense says the "useless" means "unable to be used". The rules on psionics make one small exception to this, but other than that, useless means useless. use·less /ˈyuslɪs/ –adjective 1. of no use; not serving the purpose or any purpose; unavailing or futile: It is useless to reason with him. 2. without useful qualities; of no practical good: a useless person; a useless gadget. A rock that does nothing other than spin around your head seems pretty useless to me...
Pallin Rahl 07-12-07, 02:22 PM	Such negativity on the boards presently... yeesh... There is enough vagueness to the Dull Gray Ioun Stones to allow the DM to choose whether or not they still float. The DMG/SRD states: "Ioun Stones: These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use." The XPH states: "Dull gray Ioun Stone: Provides 1 power point to a psionic character, then disintegrates." One can easily draw the conclusion that... a) Dull Gray Ioun Stones still have a use. b) To be of use, an Ioun Stone must within 3 feet of the owner and floats in the air. Thus... (a) + (b) = Dull Gray Ioun Stones float It's as valid a conclusion as any. Other valid conclusion would be: Dull Gray Ioun Stones are unique (from other Ioun Stones), don't float, and must be instead held when a Psychic character extracts the 1 PP (something which is not blatantly stated in the RAW either). ...or... Dull Gray Ioun Stones are non-floating, normal rocks unless "wielded" by a psychic character... at which point they go back to functioning as floaty ioun stones (something else not blatantly stated in the RAW). As none of these 3 options are stated directly, I'd say it's up to the DM to decide. /shrug When the DMG/SRD says: "...the stone burns out and turns to dull gray, forever useless." You could take that to mean "it becomes a standard gray non-floating rock." Or you could take it to mean "it becomes a floating gray rock that doesn't do anything and can not be remade into a new, functioning Ioun Stone." Hell, one could argue the "forever useless" part in and of itself... as a standard rock has some use... and the XPH has given even these dull gray ioun stones "use". Personally, I took the statement to simply mean "this stone used to absorb spells, now it doesn't and can't be made to ever again." /shrug ...also consider the fact that most would consider a dull gray rock floating around your head (doing nothing else, in and of itself) wholly useless. (no more than mere ornimentation) I'm neither arguing for or against any interpretation of this. I'm simply saying "To each, their own..." ...ask your DM how they feel. This is nothing like saying "Oh let's just let all Fireballs do 10d10 dmg per caster level..."
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:23 PM	Unless you import the rule from 3.0. Which would be a house-rule. We've already established that a DM can house-rule anything they want.
pres_man 07-12-07, 02:23 PM	Common sense says the "useless" means "unable to be used". The rules on psionics make one small exception to this, but other than that, useless means useless. Or when it says: 1 After absorbing twenty spell levels, the stone burns out and turns to dull gray, forever useless. 2 After absorbing fifty spell levels, the stone burns out and turns dull gray, forever useless. The useless part is about the fact that it can no longer absorb spells, thus it is useless for the function it was originally created.
borg286 07-12-07, 02:26 PM	Than you for the posts, they are quite informative. I hate to deviate, but assuming a DM chooses to keep the orbiting part for a dead Ioun stone, what would be some good spells to cast on it? So far the best spells are: continual light Silence Extended or Permanent Darkness A permanancied Protection from X spell (can anyone confirm legality)
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:26 PM	A rock that does nothing other than spin around your head seems pretty useless to me... As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit.
pres_man 07-12-07, 02:30 PM	As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit. Except all of those can be cast on an ordinary stone so the fact that those could be cast on it does not change its value or usefulness as opposed to an ordinary stone.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:31 PM	As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit. Point taken. At this point, IMO Pallin Rahl's interpretation is the most sound. Dull gray ioun stones still float, but used up ioun stones don't become dull gray ones. Instead, they become normal dull gray rocks.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:34 PM	Point taken. At this point, IMO Pallin Rahl's interpretation is the most sound. Dull gray ioun stones still float, but used up ioun stones don't become dull gray ones. Instead, they become normal dull gray rocks. Really? I thought Pallin was saying "I think all of these interpretations are valid and its up to the DM to decide".
Pallin Rahl 07-12-07, 02:34 PM	As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit. As I said... it depends on your interpretation. The XPH says they hold 1 PP that can be used. That too is a use, stated in the RAW. As we've been saying... another interpretation would be that the "useless" part simply addresses that it the stone is now "useless" for the purpose for which it was created: i.e. absorbing spells. Really? I thought Pallin was saying "I think all of these interpretations are valid and its up to the DM to decide". That's what I'm sayin' :)
lukelightning 07-12-07, 02:38 PM	I think a light orbiting your head is a terrible idea. Imagine getting flashed in the eyes every two seconds...messing up your night vision, shifting shadows around, and also acting like a "snipers shoot here" beacon. Boom! Headshot!
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:39 PM	As I said... it depends on your interpretation. The XPH says they hold 1 PP that can be used. That too is a use, stated in the RAW. As we've been saying... another interpretation would be that the "useless" part simply addresses that it the stone is now "useless" for the purpose for which it was created: i.e. absorbing spells. The XPH isn't core. The DMG is, and it is the primary source for the item in question. However, since neither book (in 3.5) says anything about dull grey ioun stones retaining the ability to orbit, I still don't see how the assumption gets made other than for nostalgia's sake.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:39 PM	Really? I thought Pallin was saying "I think all of these interpretations are valid and its up to the DM to decide". Thats what I was saying until you came in and said that wasn't the point.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 02:41 PM	Thats what I was saying until you came in and said that wasn't the point. It seemed to me that... used up ioun stones don't become dull gray ones. Instead, they become normal dull gray rocks ...meant you were making a disctintion between a "dull grey ioun stone" and a "used up ioun stone". There is no such distinction.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:43 PM	It seemed to me that... ...meant you were making a disctintion between a "dull grey ioun stone" and a "used up ioun stone". There is no such distinction. I meant before, when I made the comment: The fact that there is no specific replacement of the rule means that DMs can choose to keep the orbiting power if they want. Then again, they could choose to keep 3.0 Haste if they wanted... and you responded with: Well, yes. A DM can choose to do just about anything they want. But that's not really the point, is it?
borg286 07-12-07, 02:45 PM	Guys, Guys (or girls as the case may be)! Let's all just agree to disagree. Granted the rules are a bit vague, let's procede with the conversation assuming that the DM chose to make dull Ioun stones orbit. what are some good spells to cast on dull Ioun stones?
pres_man 07-12-07, 02:46 PM	Actually a floating stone is less useful then say a stone tied on a rope around your belt. It is easier to destroy or steal for example. It may be more interesting but its actual usefulness is no greater whether it floats or does not. The question is, does it still detect as magic? If so, then it is probably still an ioun stone, and "these crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be any use." So if it still detects as magic and is thus still an ioun stone, it still can float. If it does not detect as magic then it is an ordinary stone.
Pallin Rahl 07-12-07, 02:50 PM	However, since neither book (in 3.5) says anything about dull grey ioun stones retaining the ability to orbit, I still don't see how the assumption gets made other than for nostalgia's sake. Here's another way to think of it... The books say that all ioun stones float/orbit. "Ioun Stones: These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use." -SRD/DMG When an ioun stone turns dull gray, it does not cease to be an ioun stone. In fact, it's not called a "rock", it's called a "Dull Gray Ioun Stone". Dull Gray Ioun Stones are still ioun stones and ioun stones orbit, regardless of color. Furthermore, core or not, the XPH gives Dull Gray Ioun Stones a use... and the rules for ioun stones says, to be of use, they must orbit within 3 feet of you. Again, you can interpret it differently... but that is how I read it... Let's all just agree to disagree. Granted the rules are a bit vague, let's procede with the conversation assuming that the DM chose to make dull Ioun stones orbit. what are some good spells to cast on dull Ioun stones? Sadly the thread is likely too far off on a tangent to get back on track as you'd hope... ...regardless, I'll not further bog it down with replies on the tangent heh :)
Platstud 07-12-07, 02:53 PM	Actually a floating stone is less useful then say a stone tied on a rope around your belt. It is easier to destroy or steal for example. It may be more interesting but its actual usefulness is no greater whether it floats or does not. I tend to agree here, which is why I think most DMs would probably have no big issue with allowing it. As someone said above, have a light orbiting around your head would be distracting to the point of driving one insane. If I were the DM I would rule that this causes a penalty to all attack rolls and skill checks(probably -1 or -2).
sensestaker 07-12-07, 02:55 PM	Here's another way to think of it... The books say that all ioun stones float/orbit. "Ioun Stones: These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use." -SRD/DMG When an ioun stone turns dull gray, it does not cease to be an ioun stone. In fact, it's not called a "rock", it's called a "Dull Gray Ioun Stone". Dull Gray Ioun Stones are still ioun stones and ioun stones orbit, regardless of color. Beat me to it. Exactly what I was going to argue. I'm glad I decided to read all the posts before typing all that up. :D
Pallin Rahl 07-12-07, 03:01 PM	Ioun stones are designed to float up and away from ones eyeline. ...I'd say an ioun stone with continual flame cast on it would be no more annoying than, say, someone with a torch moving around you. As was mentioned in another post... If you feel the positional nature of the light might be a factor, you could always have continual flame on two ioun stones, orbiting directly across from one another (keeping the area around you contiually illuminated). ...I don't see it being any more or less imparing than torchlight (which is, in itself, hardly 100% consistant... yet carries no penalties).
zorgling25 07-12-07, 03:28 PM	Guys, Guys (or girls as the case may be)! Let's all just agree to disagree. Granted the rules are a bit vague, let's procede with the conversation assuming that the DM chose to make dull Ioun stones orbit. what are some good spells to cast on dull Ioun stones? Indeed, that is more to the point. Prestidigitation - You could flavor the rock. Sort of like hard candy that doesn't dissolve (though I question the real use of this one) Magic Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon - Though I don't remember if this still works given the revision to magic ammunition. Explosive Runes - Assuming you could fit the runes onto a small ioun stone Animate Object Shrink Item :P Invisibility :P Magic Mouth (you could send a secret message using the shrunk, invisible magic mouthed rock) Fabricate Stone to Flesh Thats all I can come up with off the top of my head right now. IMO the Prestidigitation is the most useful. :P
borg286 07-12-07, 03:34 PM	THANK YOU for those recommendations. Please remind me what fabricate would do for the stone. Stone to Flesh sounds fun. What would you use it for if cast on the stone. And what book are the runes mentioned in?
zorgling25 07-12-07, 03:38 PM	THANK YOU for those recommendations. Please remind me what fabricate would do for the stone. Stone to Flesh sounds fun. What would you use it for if cast on the stone. And what book are the runes mentioned in? Fabricate lets you shape nonmagic raw materials into finished products. Whether you can use it depends on whether you consider dead ioun stones magical. Stone to flesh would just turn the ioun stone into a fleshy, lifeless substance. Explosive runes is a 3rd level wizard spell in the PHB.
borg286 07-12-07, 03:45 PM	A common tactic for a wizard to do is to cast a touch spell administered through a fighter's sword. Is this possible with the stone, or is the touch spell transferal completely incorrect? If it is possible what are common touch spells to do that with?
pres_man 07-12-07, 03:45 PM	Explosive Runes - Assuming you could fit the runes onto a small ioun stone Oh. Now I am tempted to try the following (my poor players :devil: ): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html
pres_man 07-12-07, 03:47 PM	A common tactic for a wizard to do is to cast a touch spell administered through a fighter's sword. Is this possible with the stone, or is the touch spell transferal completely incorrect? If it is possible what are common touch spells to do that with? I think that only works with spell storing weapons.
borg286 07-12-07, 03:48 PM	ah
pres_man 07-12-07, 03:56 PM	what are some good spells to cast on dull Ioun stones? Any spell that you could cast on an object, that you would want close to you but not immediately in hand. The fact that it is floating isn't really all that better then casting it on something around your neck, or a beltbuckle, or a button, or whatever. The floating part just adds to the "cool" factor of it, not the actual functionality of it. Silence, darkness (and derivatives), light (and derivatives), etc are all possibly good uses. Really it depends on the person and the situation. Can it be cast on an object and do I not what it in hand but still have close, then it is a good spell for a floating stone.
borg286 07-12-07, 04:19 PM	Darkness and it's derivatives would be good for a rogue, as they like to have concealment. What spells would achieve this? Really it's cause I have darkvision and I want to have the stone to gain the upper hand in combat.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 04:23 PM	Darkness and it's derivatives would be good for a rogue, as they like to have concealment. What spells would achieve this? Really it's cause I have darkvision and I want to have the stone to gain the upper hand in combat. Be aware that enemies that have concealment cannot be sneak attacked. I assume if you're holding on to the ioun stone, then EVERY enemy would have concealment relative to you while you are in the darkness. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. Also, darkvision does NOT negate magical darkness. Everyone inside a magical darkness still has concealment regardless of whether you have darkvision or not. The darkness spell would not help, but on the contrary, HINDER a rogue, even with darkvision.
StruckingFuggle 07-12-07, 06:04 PM	As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit. As others have pointed out, that's only true for a given quantity of "useless", and the quantity we're discussing isn't clearly established in the rules. If an Ioun Stone's ability to absorb spells (which is distinct from its orbiting properties) is used up, it becomes functionally "useless" in that its use (absorbing spell levels) no longer exists, even if you can still find a use for it. It's like scavenging junk. In fact, putting 'continual flame' on it isn't a use OF the stone, but it's giving something useless a new use.
Loki5654 07-12-07, 06:45 PM	As others have pointed out, that's only true for a given quantity of "useless", and the quantity we're discussing isn't clearly established in the rules. If an Ioun Stone's ability to absorb spells (which is distinct from its orbiting properties) is used up, it becomes functionally "useless" in that its use (absorbing spell levels) no longer exists, even if you can still find a use for it. It's like scavenging junk. In fact, putting 'continual flame' on it isn't a use OF the stone, but it's giving something useless a new use. My point was that having it orbit your head is a use. But since the OP has restated the question with the "if the DM allows" proviso, I'm staying out for now.
GrondGala 07-12-07, 07:16 PM	When I had a character with a few "real" Ioun stones, I bought 6 more, and had them "chiseled and painted". They're pretty easy to destroy, so I figure if someone's going to "go for the stones", make their job harder for 'em ;)
GrondGala 07-12-07, 07:18 PM	Also, I like the idea of combining prestidigitation and rock to flesh. No good having a minty flavoured rock, you'd wreck your teeth... A minty, fleshy thing, however, would be like everlasting bubble gum... That FLOATS!
mvincent 07-12-07, 07:58 PM	Common sense says the "useless" means "unable to be used". 3.0 (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdmagicitemswondrousitems.rtf) also used the word "useless": Ioun Stones Dull gray Any Merely orbits without further powers 25 gp ... Pale lavender Ellipsoid Absorb spells up to 4th level* 20,000 gp Lavender and green Ellipsoid Absorb spells up to 8th level** 40,000 gp *After absorbing 20 spell levels, the stone burns out and turns to dull gray, forever useless. **After absorbing 50 spell levels, the stone burns out and turns dull gray, forever useless. It's established D&D precedence (both in 3.0 and earlier editions) that "useless" ioun stones still orbit your head. Yes, 3.5 did indeed remove costs for "dull gray, forever useless" ioun stones, but they kept all the other wording (including "useless"). Contending that the word "useless" now means something different seems like a "useless" argument ;)
koiulpoi 07-12-07, 07:58 PM	A single level or Warlock gives you an always-on ability to see normally in magical darkness.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 08:06 PM	A single level or Warlock gives you an always-on ability to see normally in magical darkness. Would you please enlighten me as to what ability this is? EDIT: Ah, I see, Devil's Sight. That's not always on. Its usable at will, but not always active. There's a difference.
koiulpoi 07-12-07, 08:07 PM	Would you please enlighten me as to what ability this is? Sure. Complete Arcane, page 133. Devil's sight. Top of the middle column.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 08:14 PM	Sure. Complete Arcane, page 133. Devil's sight. Top of the middle column. Ah, yeah that works, though it does make multiclassing a bit more complicated for some things. So to sneak attack in darkness, you need a level of warlock.
mycroftb 07-13-07, 10:55 PM	Hope it doesn't detract too much, but seeing as how there's a dry spell of suggestions of spells, how about things to glue to them? Little seats so you could give an amusement-park-like ride to Fine-sized creatures Small thin lightweight blades (not the hurty kind) that would act as a fan and give an ever so slight breeze A tiny sprig of berries for munching later (or to hand to the druid to turn into greater munching) I can't find any info on exactly how big they are, how much they weigh when not free-floating, or if they can sustain any weight at all while floating.
CryoSilver 07-13-07, 11:40 PM	As the OP and others pointed out, having an orbiting rock that can be the target of spells like continual flame or darkness makes it useful. Thus, it is contradictory to the rules which say it is useless. Therefore it should not orbit. You can cast Continual Flame on a regular rock and stick it to your armor, or cast Continual Flame on your armor, for that matter. Nothing is totally useless. You could potentially use a powerless grey rock as a paperweight or to prop open a door: that's a use, so are grey ioun stones unable to be used as paperweights?
StruckingFuggle 07-14-07, 12:19 AM	You can cast Continual Flame on a regular rock and stick it to your armor, or cast Continual Flame on your armor, for that matter. Nothing is totally useless. You could potentially use a powerless grey rock as a paperweight or to prop open a door: that's a use, so are grey ioun stones unable to be used as paperweights? /clap Thank you. That's what I was trying to say, but said better and with better snark. Yay.
SirTodd 07-14-07, 02:18 AM	In fact any spell you could place on a Dull Gray Ioun Stone could just as effectively be cast on your boot laces. And for far less than the 25gp the Ioun Stone costs. And if your going to cast Continual Flame on something make it look cool. Like flaming boots (so you can look like a Nightmare when you run) :) Hmmm... you could even buy a black horse and cast continual flame on it's horseshoes. Then tell everyone you own a Nightmare. But I digress from the topic. Any spell with an area of effect and a duration longer than instant can be useful on the Stone in question.