Best weapon(s) for Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best weapon(s) for Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Remedyx
02-08-06, 02:22 PM What does everyone think are the best weapons for rogues. Anything goes, even if you could use a greatsword, provided you had the profiency, is this the best?????
Puca
02-08-06, 02:50 PM I think it is pretty subjective.
Me, considering that I like to go into melee and that with a 28-point-buy my Strength is pretty low, I generally end up wanting Weapon Finesse, which then is going to cut out the bigger, heavier weapons. So generally, it is light weapons and the like for me.

Daggers: two posible damage types and you can throw them if you need to. In addition they are easy to hide or palm. I know that it isnt the most creative answer but the dagger is my #1 choice for the rogue.
BW0222
02-08-06, 03:05 PM Dagger.

* Cheap.
* Finessable.
* Usable for two-weapon fighting.
* Throwable.
* Useful in grapples and tight quarters.
* Useful outside of combat -- cutting meat, ropes, purse strings, etc.
* Useful tool. Making spears, javelins, spike traps, etc.
* Can hold one in your mouth when swimming, climbing, or otherwise needing both hands.
* Easy to conceal.
* Typically not restricted. City guard might not like bows, swords, etc.
* You can carry lots. Belts, scabbards, bandoliers, boots, pockets, etc.
* Light weight.
* Easy to purchase. Even a farmer likely has a couple.
* Cheaper for special materials. For example, silvered, cold iron, etc.
* Doesn't give your class/abilities away. For example, the mace-guy must be the cleric, the axe guy a fighter-type, etc. Dagger guy could be anything.
* Works well with disquises -- even a fish merchant isn't out of place with a dagger.

You typically aren't power attacking and you are often relying on sneak attack damage. Thus, the reduced damage over a longsword or shortsword is a minor penalty considering the flexibility the simple dagger provides.
Darkwolf_childe
02-08-06, 04:46 PM Best weapons a rogue could ever have are his Intelligence and Wisdom stats. A decent Charisma score doesn't hurt either.

Example: My thief was intent on stealing some rather valuable stuff from a mid-level PC-type fighter. Now I know my strengths and weaknesses; if I screw up I'm gonna have to run for it but I'm a nimble thief so I set up my escape in advance. I pull some waist-high furnishings out in the middle of the Inn's narrow hallway late (I mean LATE) at night while a thunderstorm is raging outside. I know my escape will be through the far end room that has nice furnishings, a large fire-place and three large windows. I set up the room with three pints of oil, a pair of old pants stuffed with leaves and attached to leather shoes, a nice small fire, a circle made of chalk, rope and face paint and weapon black.
I snuck into the room where my intended victim lay sleeping. And sure enough the guy woke up no sooner than I'd got what I wanted. Now, I'm dressed in your basic black w/cloak and hood and whatnot; so I bolt out the door and down the hall whilst he's getting up bellowing and grabbing for me. I tumble over the waist high obstruction and hit the floor running.
He doesn't see it due to the dim illumination and proceeds to crash into it giving me more time. I make it to the room. Bolt the door and do some creative artwork with the lamp oil. As he and his cronies start bashing at the door I make like I'm summoning something by shouting some gibberish that sounds good and then, just when the door is ready to break; I scream like a scared little elf and then roar like a p.o'ed bear. I light the oil and as they break in they see a summoned 'demon' with a black face, a flaming sword and swirling 'wings' (actually cape) on a crude circle with the 'dead' summoner's legs sticking out from behind the furniture. I touch my flaming sword (weapon black burns and I have a small fire going in the fireplace) to the oil and it looks like rushing fire attacking them; surrounding the doorframe and scaring the daylights outta them. Luckily they didn't have a cleric. They panicked and ran whilst I shimmied down the rope set up outside the window. Intelligence and forthought. A thief's best weapons.
kraegor
02-08-06, 08:20 PM barbed daggers in races of the wild i believe.. give a +2 damage when using on a sneak attack, very nice.
Rulebook
02-08-06, 08:53 PM heavy repeating crossbow

you can take the archery tree with it, and just hang out inside of 30'

if not, it still does d10's from REALLY far away
FiestFan
02-08-06, 08:57 PM Matched Sun Blades are pretty nice.... weilded as Short Swords (thus, finessable) with d10 damage, plus the various add-ons of a Sunblade. :cool:
CryoSilver
02-08-06, 09:16 PM Touch attacks, especially if you can get them usable as regular attacks; that is, make full attacks with them.

Failing that, any weapon + Wraithstrike + TWF + poison + haste + Wounding ability.
Crash01234567890
02-08-06, 09:56 PM I prefer to splash one level of fighter in and use an Elven Courtblade and Armor spikes. Both Finesseable, and that's a D10-18_20 crit range and another D4 with x2 crit range. Other than that I prefer Dual shortswords and multiple daggers.
Votan
02-08-06, 10:12 PM Is there anything that a spiked chain can't solve?

But the dagger can be cool -- especially if the Invisible Blade is an option.
kraegor
02-08-06, 10:26 PM I still think the best weapons (mundane w/o magical) are:

Barbed Dagger with Craven Feat.

If you have 14 strength, with Craven Feat, and are 5th level you get:

1d4 + 2 (Barbed Dagger Damage) +2 strength + 5 (Craven Feat) + 3d6

So you can basically get 1d4+9+3d6 at 5th level. That is pretty wicked.

Now yes, you could use a greatsword for more damage, but... using 2 weapons as a rogue is infinately better because you can get 2 sneak attacks a round using 2 weapons.
stabs
02-09-06, 01:41 AM The whip-dagger. Seriously!

Rogues have low HD, but powerful attacking capability. They need to get off a full attack, but they can't really be full-attacked the round after they 5-foot-step away from the guy they just stabbed with their daggers.

Whip-daggers are good because you can full-attack from 15 feet away, which means unless the enemy has reach they can't full-attack you on their turn. And when they do approach, then you start doing the tumbley Spring Attack act while the fighter wears them down.

And yes, you CAN flank with a whip under 3.5, you just can't provide flanking for the guy on the other side.

Unfortunately, it's feat intensive, as you need Exotic Weapon Prof AND Oversized TWF if you plan to dual wield (and yes, you should be planning to dual wield).

Other than that, the dagger!
Dhavaer
02-09-06, 01:44 AM barbed daggers in races of the wild i believe.. give a +2 damage when using on a sneak attack, very nice.

Complete Adventurer, actually. And you need a Sleight of Hand check to do that.
Phase
02-09-06, 01:52 AM Saps or unarmed. You never know when you need to knock someone out/up.

Edit: Check my sig for a monk/rogue build. Very strong for a rogue
Chazmon
02-10-06, 11:14 AM All depends on you style of play really
my personal favorite is the greatsword. Im currently working on a rogue with 4 levels of ilusionist. Using Invisability and then true strike it gives 3d6 damage with only a 1 in 20 chance of missing. Works relally well against spellcasters.
The thing to remember about rogues is they dont use shields so you either want a two hander weapon or wield two weopens. Two is best as it effectivly doubles the amount of sneak attack available
Gnarl
02-10-06, 01:19 PM Pole arms and other reach weapons are very decent for a rogue. I also like the great club :D
Melpomene
02-10-06, 02:22 PM With the books I have (Dragonmech, Complete Adventure) there is some very real merits to bombs, explosives, and grenade-like weapons. Acid flasques and tanglefoot bags are basically useless, but opther items can be downright happy.
Arindor
02-10-06, 03:25 PM My rogues always seem to favour finessed rapiers.
demonic_dante
02-11-06, 09:18 PM two rapiers with improved crit/keen on both, and weapon finesse for melee
Heavy repeating crossbow for ranged

of course magic can be added to improve anything, and craven is great (i mean tony the tiger great)
yuenglingdragon
02-12-06, 05:46 PM You know I've always used a short sword and dagger on my Rogue builds but a pair of rapiers sounds pretty f**king good.
Squaba
02-12-06, 05:55 PM Kukris: For the same reason you would use rapiers, except that you get the added bonus of them being light weapons. A scimitar/kukri Combo is best (or rapier if you prefer that look) all three of the weapons have a crit range of 18-20, and using the kukri as your off hand knocks the penalties for two weapon fighting down to -2/-2 with all the feats.
BladeMage_1
02-12-06, 07:38 PM Kukris: For the same reason you would use rapiers, except that you get the added bonus of them being light weapons. A scimitar/kukri Combo is best (or rapier if you prefer that look) all three of the weapons have a crit range of 18-20, and using the kukri as your off hand knocks the penalties for two weapon fighting down to -2/-2 with all the feats.

Yeah, the rogue in my group uses dual kurkris. They work great because of the threat range, and they also have many of the dagger properties (being light slashing and all).

If I were a rogue I'd have a dagger on me at all times, especially for infiltration type adventures. However, For the bigger fights I'd whip out a scimmy or rapier.
Titan W
02-12-06, 08:39 PM I like to ahve a tleast 8 daggers, they have to find all of the daggers to confiscat them. I also like keeping a pair of kukri and a light crossbow, weapon finesse it and go for a flanking build. Usually attack with HC as I move in and then use the kukri and a dagger to finish things up. (At some point I want to try a black flame zealot rogue.)
AbsentMindedProfessor
02-12-06, 10:52 PM just keep in mind that dual rapiers incur a -4/-4 penalty. They are still one handed weapons even though they you can weapon finesse them. They are not light weapons.
nodaisho
02-12-06, 10:54 PM I like to ahve a tleast 8 daggers, they have to find all of the daggers to confiscat them. I also like keeping a pair of kukri and a light crossbow, weapon finesse it and go for a flanking build. Usually attack with HC as I move in and then use the kukri and a dagger to finish things up. (At some point I want to try a black flame zealot rogue.)
and, this is an idea I got from one of ed greenwood's books, keep one of the daggers in a place that people would usually be ashamed to pat down, they wouldnt be as thorough.
Bigpoppy
02-13-06, 01:33 AM Why daggers and not Rapier???
SiouLubb
02-13-06, 10:05 AM Returning Dagger. Gives the Rogue the opportunity to make a ranged sneak attack without having to take the time to draw an additional weapon (Bow, crossbow, etc). Given that the ranged sneak attack is limited to 30', the 10' range increment isn't too crippling.
Puca
02-13-06, 10:40 AM Why daggers and not Rapier???The rapier has a better crit range, which is even better when keen. It will average 1 point of damage more than the dagger as well. Those are its advantages over the dagger.

Edit: There is another thing, style.

The daggers advantages are: smaller, which means lighter and easier to conceal. You can, if you need to, throw it. You can fight with daggers in both hands with less of a penalty than two rapiers (which really only matters if you are taking feats specific to a weapon like Weapon Focus or Improved Crit or something since you could always go rapier/dagger off-hand.) and daggers offer two damage types.

__________________

I was surprised by the number of people who offered martial weapons and exotic weapons for answers. Not that this is a bad thing, but just not the way Id go.
Kethrik
02-13-06, 12:52 PM Duel punching daggers (katar). They have the same damage as a dagger, with the exception of the Crit (Natural 20 x3).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Remedyx 02-08-06, 02:22 PM	What does everyone think are the best weapons for rogues. Anything goes, even if you could use a greatsword, provided you had the profiency, is this the best?????
Puca 02-08-06, 02:50 PM	I think it is pretty subjective. Me, considering that I like to go into melee and that with a 28-point-buy my Strength is pretty low, I generally end up wanting Weapon Finesse, which then is going to cut out the bigger, heavier weapons. So generally, it is light weapons and the like for me. Daggers: two posible damage types and you can throw them if you need to. In addition they are easy to hide or palm. I know that it isnt the most creative answer but the dagger is my #1 choice for the rogue.
BW0222 02-08-06, 03:05 PM	Dagger. * Cheap. * Finessable. * Usable for two-weapon fighting. * Throwable. * Useful in grapples and tight quarters. * Useful outside of combat -- cutting meat, ropes, purse strings, etc. * Useful tool. Making spears, javelins, spike traps, etc. * Can hold one in your mouth when swimming, climbing, or otherwise needing both hands. * Easy to conceal. * Typically not restricted. City guard might not like bows, swords, etc. * You can carry lots. Belts, scabbards, bandoliers, boots, pockets, etc. * Light weight. * Easy to purchase. Even a farmer likely has a couple. * Cheaper for special materials. For example, silvered, cold iron, etc. * Doesn't give your class/abilities away. For example, the mace-guy must be the cleric, the axe guy a fighter-type, etc. Dagger guy could be anything. * Works well with disquises -- even a fish merchant isn't out of place with a dagger. You typically aren't power attacking and you are often relying on sneak attack damage. Thus, the reduced damage over a longsword or shortsword is a minor penalty considering the flexibility the simple dagger provides.
Darkwolf_childe 02-08-06, 04:46 PM	Best weapons a rogue could ever have are his Intelligence and Wisdom stats. A decent Charisma score doesn't hurt either. Example: My thief was intent on stealing some rather valuable stuff from a mid-level PC-type fighter. Now I know my strengths and weaknesses; if I screw up I'm gonna have to run for it but I'm a nimble thief so I set up my escape in advance. I pull some waist-high furnishings out in the middle of the Inn's narrow hallway late (I mean LATE) at night while a thunderstorm is raging outside. I know my escape will be through the far end room that has nice furnishings, a large fire-place and three large windows. I set up the room with three pints of oil, a pair of old pants stuffed with leaves and attached to leather shoes, a nice small fire, a circle made of chalk, rope and face paint and weapon black. I snuck into the room where my intended victim lay sleeping. And sure enough the guy woke up no sooner than I'd got what I wanted. Now, I'm dressed in your basic black w/cloak and hood and whatnot; so I bolt out the door and down the hall whilst he's getting up bellowing and grabbing for me. I tumble over the waist high obstruction and hit the floor running. He doesn't see it due to the dim illumination and proceeds to crash into it giving me more time. I make it to the room. Bolt the door and do some creative artwork with the lamp oil. As he and his cronies start bashing at the door I make like I'm summoning something by shouting some gibberish that sounds good and then, just when the door is ready to break; I scream like a scared little elf and then roar like a p.o'ed bear. I light the oil and as they break in they see a summoned 'demon' with a black face, a flaming sword and swirling 'wings' (actually cape) on a crude circle with the 'dead' summoner's legs sticking out from behind the furniture. I touch my flaming sword (weapon black burns and I have a small fire going in the fireplace) to the oil and it looks like rushing fire attacking them; surrounding the doorframe and scaring the daylights outta them. Luckily they didn't have a cleric. They panicked and ran whilst I shimmied down the rope set up outside the window. Intelligence and forthought. A thief's best weapons.
kraegor 02-08-06, 08:20 PM	barbed daggers in races of the wild i believe.. give a +2 damage when using on a sneak attack, very nice.
Rulebook 02-08-06, 08:53 PM	heavy repeating crossbow you can take the archery tree with it, and just hang out inside of 30' if not, it still does d10's from REALLY far away
FiestFan 02-08-06, 08:57 PM	Matched Sun Blades are pretty nice.... weilded as Short Swords (thus, finessable) with d10 damage, plus the various add-ons of a Sunblade. :cool:
CryoSilver 02-08-06, 09:16 PM	Touch attacks, especially if you can get them usable as regular attacks; that is, make full attacks with them. Failing that, any weapon + Wraithstrike + TWF + poison + haste + Wounding ability.
Crash01234567890 02-08-06, 09:56 PM	I prefer to splash one level of fighter in and use an Elven Courtblade and Armor spikes. Both Finesseable, and that's a D10-18_20 crit range and another D4 with x2 crit range. Other than that I prefer Dual shortswords and multiple daggers.
Votan 02-08-06, 10:12 PM	Is there anything that a spiked chain can't solve? But the dagger can be cool -- especially if the Invisible Blade is an option.
kraegor 02-08-06, 10:26 PM	I still think the best weapons (mundane w/o magical) are: Barbed Dagger with Craven Feat. If you have 14 strength, with Craven Feat, and are 5th level you get: 1d4 + 2 (Barbed Dagger Damage) +2 strength + 5 (Craven Feat) + 3d6 So you can basically get 1d4+9+3d6 at 5th level. That is pretty wicked. Now yes, you could use a greatsword for more damage, but... using 2 weapons as a rogue is infinately better because you can get 2 sneak attacks a round using 2 weapons.
stabs 02-09-06, 01:41 AM	The whip-dagger. Seriously! Rogues have low HD, but powerful attacking capability. They need to get off a full attack, but they can't really be full-attacked the round after they 5-foot-step away from the guy they just stabbed with their daggers. Whip-daggers are good because you can full-attack from 15 feet away, which means unless the enemy has reach they can't full-attack you on their turn. And when they do approach, then you start doing the tumbley Spring Attack act while the fighter wears them down. And yes, you CAN flank with a whip under 3.5, you just can't provide flanking for the guy on the other side. Unfortunately, it's feat intensive, as you need Exotic Weapon Prof AND Oversized TWF if you plan to dual wield (and yes, you should be planning to dual wield). Other than that, the dagger!
Dhavaer 02-09-06, 01:44 AM	barbed daggers in races of the wild i believe.. give a +2 damage when using on a sneak attack, very nice. Complete Adventurer, actually. And you need a Sleight of Hand check to do that.
Phase 02-09-06, 01:52 AM	Saps or unarmed. You never know when you need to knock someone out/up. Edit: Check my sig for a monk/rogue build. Very strong for a rogue
Chazmon 02-10-06, 11:14 AM	All depends on you style of play really my personal favorite is the greatsword. Im currently working on a rogue with 4 levels of ilusionist. Using Invisability and then true strike it gives 3d6 damage with only a 1 in 20 chance of missing. Works relally well against spellcasters. The thing to remember about rogues is they dont use shields so you either want a two hander weapon or wield two weopens. Two is best as it effectivly doubles the amount of sneak attack available
Gnarl 02-10-06, 01:19 PM	Pole arms and other reach weapons are very decent for a rogue. I also like the great club :D
Melpomene 02-10-06, 02:22 PM	With the books I have (Dragonmech, Complete Adventure) there is some very real merits to bombs, explosives, and grenade-like weapons. Acid flasques and tanglefoot bags are basically useless, but opther items can be downright happy.
Arindor 02-10-06, 03:25 PM	My rogues always seem to favour finessed rapiers.
demonic_dante 02-11-06, 09:18 PM	two rapiers with improved crit/keen on both, and weapon finesse for melee Heavy repeating crossbow for ranged of course magic can be added to improve anything, and craven is great (i mean tony the tiger great)
yuenglingdragon 02-12-06, 05:46 PM	You know I've always used a short sword and dagger on my Rogue builds but a pair of rapiers sounds pretty f**king good.
Squaba 02-12-06, 05:55 PM	Kukris: For the same reason you would use rapiers, except that you get the added bonus of them being light weapons. A scimitar/kukri Combo is best (or rapier if you prefer that look) all three of the weapons have a crit range of 18-20, and using the kukri as your off hand knocks the penalties for two weapon fighting down to -2/-2 with all the feats.
BladeMage_1 02-12-06, 07:38 PM	Kukris: For the same reason you would use rapiers, except that you get the added bonus of them being light weapons. A scimitar/kukri Combo is best (or rapier if you prefer that look) all three of the weapons have a crit range of 18-20, and using the kukri as your off hand knocks the penalties for two weapon fighting down to -2/-2 with all the feats. Yeah, the rogue in my group uses dual kurkris. They work great because of the threat range, and they also have many of the dagger properties (being light slashing and all). If I were a rogue I'd have a dagger on me at all times, especially for infiltration type adventures. However, For the bigger fights I'd whip out a scimmy or rapier.
Titan W 02-12-06, 08:39 PM	I like to ahve a tleast 8 daggers, they have to find all of the daggers to confiscat them. I also like keeping a pair of kukri and a light crossbow, weapon finesse it and go for a flanking build. Usually attack with HC as I move in and then use the kukri and a dagger to finish things up. (At some point I want to try a black flame zealot rogue.)
AbsentMindedProfessor 02-12-06, 10:52 PM	just keep in mind that dual rapiers incur a -4/-4 penalty. They are still one handed weapons even though they you can weapon finesse them. They are not light weapons.
nodaisho 02-12-06, 10:54 PM	I like to ahve a tleast 8 daggers, they have to find all of the daggers to confiscat them. I also like keeping a pair of kukri and a light crossbow, weapon finesse it and go for a flanking build. Usually attack with HC as I move in and then use the kukri and a dagger to finish things up. (At some point I want to try a black flame zealot rogue.) and, this is an idea I got from one of ed greenwood's books, keep one of the daggers in a place that people would usually be ashamed to pat down, they wouldnt be as thorough.
Bigpoppy 02-13-06, 01:33 AM	Why daggers and not Rapier???
SiouLubb 02-13-06, 10:05 AM	Returning Dagger. Gives the Rogue the opportunity to make a ranged sneak attack without having to take the time to draw an additional weapon (Bow, crossbow, etc). Given that the ranged sneak attack is limited to 30', the 10' range increment isn't too crippling.
Puca 02-13-06, 10:40 AM	Why daggers and not Rapier???The rapier has a better crit range, which is even better when keen. It will average 1 point of damage more than the dagger as well. Those are its advantages over the dagger. Edit: There is another thing, style. The daggers advantages are: smaller, which means lighter and easier to conceal. You can, if you need to, throw it. You can fight with daggers in both hands with less of a penalty than two rapiers (which really only matters if you are taking feats specific to a weapon like Weapon Focus or Improved Crit or something since you could always go rapier/dagger off-hand.) and daggers offer two damage types. __________________ I was surprised by the number of people who offered martial weapons and exotic weapons for answers. Not that this is a bad thing, but just not the way Id go.
Kethrik 02-13-06, 12:52 PM	Duel punching daggers (katar). They have the same damage as a dagger, with the exception of the Crit (Natural 20 x3).