big blade [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

big blade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thubby
10-27-05, 04:04 PM i have a 1/2 giant with monkey grip and he is wielding an oversized, balanced full blade (basicaly a big bastardsword). i have determined that the blade is approxomately 20 ft long :D :D (without handle)

my question is, do you think he should get reach with this weapon?
Barloch
10-27-05, 04:38 PM I think he should, the RAW doesn't. If its not a reach weapon or you aren't large you don't get reach, its wierd I know. You could pry reason your DM to allow common sense to take place just this once in the D&D world. :P
tarkin
10-27-05, 04:40 PM That would be correct, except...

1) Anyone that is playing with an over-sized, balanced, full blade is not using RAW in the first place. The concept is itself illegal in a strict game or a Loose Game, while Power Games/Anything Goes Game don't care about RAW.

2) Anyone that thinks he can calculate the length of the blade doesn't care about RAW or balance either.

So he is either playing in a Power Game or an Anything Goes Game.

An Anything Goes game will definitely let him get reach.

The Power DM should usually not let him get away with it, but I could see an exception or two.
Draxo
10-27-05, 04:41 PM http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=216

:)
Kendrick
10-27-05, 06:28 PM i have a 1/2 giant with monkey grip and he is wielding an oversized, balanced full blade (basicaly a big bastardsword). i have determined that the blade is approxomately 20 ft long :D :D (without handle)

my question is, do you think he should get reach with this weapon?

Not unless your character's size increases to Large.
Thubby
10-27-05, 06:44 PM Raw???
allenchan
10-27-05, 06:45 PM Rules As Written.

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip do not stack.
DND isnt an anime, so stop trying.
aethon
10-31-05, 01:17 AM the only problem with that comic is regardless of combat reflexes, you still only get to make one AoO per target per round; now if it were to be 2 enemies attacking, he'd get AoO agianst both
lamzak
10-31-05, 03:19 AM hmm, I thought you could get two AoO at the same target (with combat reflexes ofcourse) when that opponent provokes with different actions.
Like the wizard casting in melee without casting defensively as a standard action: AoO
Than moving away 30ft as a move action: AoO

So I thought when moving through two threatend squares would also provoke twice.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-31-05, 03:22 AM I don't see why he has to Spring Attack. Why can't he just single attack and then move back? A spiked chain can reach adjacent targets.

Anyway, Monkey Grip and powerful build don't stack. Plus the fullblade is 3.0. It only exists in 3.5 as a Large bastard sword.

Seriously dude, put the giant sword down. You're not Cloud Strife and you can deal just as much damage with a pair of daggers if you know what you're doing.
rampant
10-31-05, 03:32 AM i still don't see how they don't stack
Tyler Do'Urden
10-31-05, 03:36 AM A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.
You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change.

One ability lets you use weapons one size larger than you, the other ability lets you use weapons one size larger than you. Neither one increases your actual size or increases the other ability.
unusualsuspect
10-31-05, 03:45 AM I don't know what the text is for the "Balanced" ability, but depending on its wording, it might be able to stack with monkeygrip/powerful build.
rampant
10-31-05, 03:46 AM um the powerful frame says fo all intensive purposes except reach and attack/ac/skill penealties you are large

therefore monkey grip lets you wield a huge greatsword (4d6)

hell collision and enhancement bonuses don't specifically say they stack but everyone allows it so in your book a +5 enhance wouldn't stack with collision but a +4 would?

it seems to me that people think that they have discovered a loophole to restrict players wierd

the logic behind this argument is shakier than a muchkin's inventory
allenchan
10-31-05, 04:06 AM um the powerful frame says fo all intensive purposes except reach and attack/ac/skill penealties you are large

therefore monkey grip lets you wield a huge greatsword (4d6)

hell collision and enhancement bonuses don't specifically say they stack but everyone allows it so in your book a +5 enhance wouldn't stack with collision but a +4 would?

it seems to me that people think that they have discovered a loophole to restrict players wierd

the logic behind this argument is shakier than a muchkin's inventory

its specificly answered in the FAQ that they do not stack.
The exact wording has been quoted to you. If you chose to ignore these facts, then that is your own problem.
Ravag3r
10-31-05, 04:16 AM The soapmaking drow is right. Powerfull Build and Monkeygrip don't stack - if you want to wield a Huge size weapon, be an ogre.
Or you could just get a class that has Sneak Attack, and do comparable damage with a needle :)
Tyler Do'Urden
10-31-05, 06:01 AM The soapmaking drow is right.
You're treading mighty close to the first two rules. You watch yourself.
mvincent
10-31-05, 04:12 PM its specificly answered in the FAQ that they do not stack.
I believe you might be refering the (unofficial) FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305458) contained in Skills and Feats forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19), rather than the (official) 3.5 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a).

Interestingly, the official 3.5 FAQ does provide an example of powerful build being used on a weapon 2 sizes larger than the wielder weapon (which partially goes against the no stacking RAW argument). However (to the original OP) it is recommended that you not do so.
Kendrick
10-31-05, 04:41 PM I believe you might be refering the (unofficial) FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305458) contained in Skills and Feats forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19), rather than the (official) 3.5 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a).

Interestingly, the official 3.5 FAQ does provide an example of powerful build being used on a weapon 2 sizes larger than the wielder weapon (which partially goes against the no stacking RAW argument). However (to the original OP) it is recommended that you not do so.
I don't think so. The monkey grip feat allows weapons "one size larger", and so does the powerful build feat. For them to stack, one or the other would have to say the character was "treated as one size larger".
mvincent
10-31-05, 05:02 PM I don't thinkWhich part of my post were you trying to refute?
Jabberwock761
10-31-05, 05:26 PM OK. I'll be the [insert nasty pronoun here]. The FAQ say (roughly) this, which is as close to the topic as it's gonna get

The character with powerful build could wield a fullblade because of its special rule to allow a smaller character to wield it. However, any other weapon would be disallowed for the same reason; the absence of the rule. So a large fullblade could be used by a character with powerful build and the exotic weapon proficiency. However, the rules say nothing about the wielder possessing Monkey Grip, and the rules explicitly state that these circumstances won't give the character reach.

My personal opinion...*please hold as I climb up on my soapbox*...is that the abilities Monkey Grip and Powerful Build wouldn't stack. That said, I would allow the character to wield a fullblade with the exotic weapon prof., or any huge weapon with the standard penalty for Monkey Grip since a large character could do the same, and the character can use weapons as a large character. However, I still wouldn't allow the character to have reach under these circumstances. And to justify it: The character has to move back to balance his/her swings with the physics-defying carhood of a weapon. *climbs off soapbox*

To defend the thread-poster against personal attack: Lots of characters could use a giant sword without being Cloud Strife. Of course, the personal attacker would've known that had she/he been less preoccupied with tearing everyone else down to give himself/herself the impression of building their own self-worth. Keep swingin' that carhood, Man!

Hope I helped! :D
mvincent
10-31-05, 05:56 PM My personal opinion...*please hold as I climb up on my soapbox*...is that the abilities Monkey Grip and Powerful Build wouldn't stack. That said, I would allow the character to wield a fullblade with the exotic weapon prof., or any huge weapon with the standard penalty for Monkey Grip since a large character could do the same, and the character can use weapons as a large character.I completely agree. I just acknowledge that the matter is subject to some interpretation.

By RAW, they don't stack, but also by RAW, they could not be used on a huge weapon. Both the official 3.5 FAQ and our own interpretations (reasonably) violate RAW, which weakens (even if only a little) the RAW argument for interpretation (presented in the unofficial forum FAQ mentioned earlier). The fact that someone is confused on this matter (and comes looking to us for answers) does not mean he should be berated for it. Their interpretation is not completely unreasonable, it is just highly unadvisable.
rampant
11-01-05, 02:02 AM eh doesn't come up much with my groups anyway (I prefer true large, MINOTAURS) i still don't get the contradiction implied here but
Novacat
11-01-05, 02:39 AM I don't see why he has to Spring Attack. Why can't he just single attack and then move back? A spiked chain can reach adjacent targets.
Spring Attack, I believe, allows you to avoid attacks of opportunity from your targets due to movement. Springing 5 ft to the left first is only necessary because the feat requires that you move both before an after the attack to be effective. And technically, yes, only one AoO for a charging opponent, even with Combat Reflexes. However, it's a comic, and it's supposed to be silly, so don't worry about it.
Novacat
11-01-05, 02:50 AM I should also ask how tall the character in question is. As a general rule, a humanoid cannot effectively use a weapon longer than himself. Let's assume that the Powerful Build ability allows him to use weapons of up to double his length (thereby allowing the use of larger weapons). Monkey Grip allows you to do exactly the same thing, but with a penalty. Both feats refer to your actual size, and no where does either feat mention "larger than normal" weapons, or "increase your effective size for purposes of wielding weapons".

So, both logically and officially, your character can only wield a large weapon without incurring serious penalties, and Monkey Grip is a wasted feat for characters with Powerful Build. You (or someone) said that the sword is 20 feet long. Your character would then need to be at least 10 feet tall to wield it effectively. Ten feet tall is Large size (even for a Powerful Build creature). Your character is not large.
elecgraystone
11-01-05, 01:17 PM I should also ask how tall the character in question is. As a general rule, a humanoid cannot effectively use a weapon longer than himself. Let's assume that the Powerful Build ability allows him to use weapons of up to double his length (thereby allowing the use of larger weapons). Monkey Grip allows you to do exactly the same thing, but with a penalty. Both feats refer to your actual size, and no where does either feat mention "larger than normal" weapons, or "increase your effective size for purposes of wielding weapons".

So, both logically and officially, your character can only wield a large weapon without incurring serious penalties, and Monkey Grip is a wasted feat for characters with Powerful Build. You (or someone) said that the sword is 20 feet long. Your character would then need to be at least 10 feet tall to wield it effectively. Ten feet tall is Large size (even for a Powerful Build creature). Your character is not large.
3.5 main FAQ states that someone with powerful build and the exotic weapon prof. would be able to weild a huge fullblade. (pg24)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thubby 10-27-05, 04:04 PM	i have a 1/2 giant with monkey grip and he is wielding an oversized, balanced full blade (basicaly a big bastardsword). i have determined that the blade is approxomately 20 ft long :D :D (without handle) my question is, do you think he should get reach with this weapon?
Barloch 10-27-05, 04:38 PM	I think he should, the RAW doesn't. If its not a reach weapon or you aren't large you don't get reach, its wierd I know. You could pry reason your DM to allow common sense to take place just this once in the D&D world. :P
tarkin 10-27-05, 04:40 PM	That would be correct, except... 1) Anyone that is playing with an over-sized, balanced, full blade is not using RAW in the first place. The concept is itself illegal in a strict game or a Loose Game, while Power Games/Anything Goes Game don't care about RAW. 2) Anyone that thinks he can calculate the length of the blade doesn't care about RAW or balance either. So he is either playing in a Power Game or an Anything Goes Game. An Anything Goes game will definitely let him get reach. The Power DM should usually not let him get away with it, but I could see an exception or two.
Draxo 10-27-05, 04:41 PM	http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=216 :)
Kendrick 10-27-05, 06:28 PM	i have a 1/2 giant with monkey grip and he is wielding an oversized, balanced full blade (basicaly a big bastardsword). i have determined that the blade is approxomately 20 ft long :D :D (without handle) my question is, do you think he should get reach with this weapon? Not unless your character's size increases to Large.
Thubby 10-27-05, 06:44 PM	Raw???
allenchan 10-27-05, 06:45 PM	Rules As Written. Powerful Build and Monkey Grip do not stack. DND isnt an anime, so stop trying.
aethon 10-31-05, 01:17 AM	the only problem with that comic is regardless of combat reflexes, you still only get to make one AoO per target per round; now if it were to be 2 enemies attacking, he'd get AoO agianst both
lamzak 10-31-05, 03:19 AM	hmm, I thought you could get two AoO at the same target (with combat reflexes ofcourse) when that opponent provokes with different actions. Like the wizard casting in melee without casting defensively as a standard action: AoO Than moving away 30ft as a move action: AoO So I thought when moving through two threatend squares would also provoke twice.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-31-05, 03:22 AM	I don't see why he has to Spring Attack. Why can't he just single attack and then move back? A spiked chain can reach adjacent targets. Anyway, Monkey Grip and powerful build don't stack. Plus the fullblade is 3.0. It only exists in 3.5 as a Large bastard sword. Seriously dude, put the giant sword down. You're not Cloud Strife and you can deal just as much damage with a pair of daggers if you know what you're doing.
rampant 10-31-05, 03:32 AM	i still don't see how they don't stack
Tyler Do'Urden 10-31-05, 03:36 AM	A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change. One ability lets you use weapons one size larger than you, the other ability lets you use weapons one size larger than you. Neither one increases your actual size or increases the other ability.
unusualsuspect 10-31-05, 03:45 AM	I don't know what the text is for the "Balanced" ability, but depending on its wording, it might be able to stack with monkeygrip/powerful build.
rampant 10-31-05, 03:46 AM	um the powerful frame says fo all intensive purposes except reach and attack/ac/skill penealties you are large therefore monkey grip lets you wield a huge greatsword (4d6) hell collision and enhancement bonuses don't specifically say they stack but everyone allows it so in your book a +5 enhance wouldn't stack with collision but a +4 would? it seems to me that people think that they have discovered a loophole to restrict players wierd the logic behind this argument is shakier than a muchkin's inventory
allenchan 10-31-05, 04:06 AM	um the powerful frame says fo all intensive purposes except reach and attack/ac/skill penealties you are large therefore monkey grip lets you wield a huge greatsword (4d6) hell collision and enhancement bonuses don't specifically say they stack but everyone allows it so in your book a +5 enhance wouldn't stack with collision but a +4 would? it seems to me that people think that they have discovered a loophole to restrict players wierd the logic behind this argument is shakier than a muchkin's inventory its specificly answered in the FAQ that they do not stack. The exact wording has been quoted to you. If you chose to ignore these facts, then that is your own problem.
Ravag3r 10-31-05, 04:16 AM	The soapmaking drow is right. Powerfull Build and Monkeygrip don't stack - if you want to wield a Huge size weapon, be an ogre. Or you could just get a class that has Sneak Attack, and do comparable damage with a needle :)
Tyler Do'Urden 10-31-05, 06:01 AM	The soapmaking drow is right. You're treading mighty close to the first two rules. You watch yourself.
mvincent 10-31-05, 04:12 PM	its specificly answered in the FAQ that they do not stack. I believe you might be refering the (unofficial) FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305458) contained in Skills and Feats forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19), rather than the (official) 3.5 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a). Interestingly, the official 3.5 FAQ does provide an example of powerful build being used on a weapon 2 sizes larger than the wielder weapon (which partially goes against the no stacking RAW argument). However (to the original OP) it is recommended that you not do so.
Kendrick 10-31-05, 04:41 PM	I believe you might be refering the (unofficial) FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305458) contained in Skills and Feats forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19), rather than the (official) 3.5 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a). Interestingly, the official 3.5 FAQ does provide an example of powerful build being used on a weapon 2 sizes larger than the wielder weapon (which partially goes against the no stacking RAW argument). However (to the original OP) it is recommended that you not do so. I don't think so. The monkey grip feat allows weapons "one size larger", and so does the powerful build feat. For them to stack, one or the other would have to say the character was "treated as one size larger".
mvincent 10-31-05, 05:02 PM	I don't thinkWhich part of my post were you trying to refute?
Jabberwock761 10-31-05, 05:26 PM	OK. I'll be the [insert nasty pronoun here]. The FAQ say (roughly) this, which is as close to the topic as it's gonna get The character with powerful build could wield a fullblade because of its special rule to allow a smaller character to wield it. However, any other weapon would be disallowed for the same reason; the absence of the rule. So a large fullblade could be used by a character with powerful build and the exotic weapon proficiency. However, the rules say nothing about the wielder possessing Monkey Grip, and the rules explicitly state that these circumstances won't give the character reach. My personal opinion...please hold as I climb up on my soapbox...is that the abilities Monkey Grip and Powerful Build wouldn't stack. That said, I would allow the character to wield a fullblade with the exotic weapon prof., or any huge weapon with the standard penalty for Monkey Grip since a large character could do the same, and the character can use weapons as a large character. However, I still wouldn't allow the character to have reach under these circumstances. And to justify it: The character has to move back to balance his/her swings with the physics-defying carhood of a weapon. climbs off soapbox To defend the thread-poster against personal attack: Lots of characters could use a giant sword without being Cloud Strife. Of course, the personal attacker would've known that had she/he been less preoccupied with tearing everyone else down to give himself/herself the impression of building their own self-worth. Keep swingin' that carhood, Man! Hope I helped! :D
mvincent 10-31-05, 05:56 PM	My personal opinion...please hold as I climb up on my soapbox...is that the abilities Monkey Grip and Powerful Build wouldn't stack. That said, I would allow the character to wield a fullblade with the exotic weapon prof., or any huge weapon with the standard penalty for Monkey Grip since a large character could do the same, and the character can use weapons as a large character.I completely agree. I just acknowledge that the matter is subject to some interpretation. By RAW, they don't stack, but also by RAW, they could not be used on a huge weapon. Both the official 3.5 FAQ and our own interpretations (reasonably) violate RAW, which weakens (even if only a little) the RAW argument for interpretation (presented in the unofficial forum FAQ mentioned earlier). The fact that someone is confused on this matter (and comes looking to us for answers) does not mean he should be berated for it. Their interpretation is not completely unreasonable, it is just highly unadvisable.
rampant 11-01-05, 02:02 AM	eh doesn't come up much with my groups anyway (I prefer true large, MINOTAURS) i still don't get the contradiction implied here but
Novacat 11-01-05, 02:39 AM	I don't see why he has to Spring Attack. Why can't he just single attack and then move back? A spiked chain can reach adjacent targets. Spring Attack, I believe, allows you to avoid attacks of opportunity from your targets due to movement. Springing 5 ft to the left first is only necessary because the feat requires that you move both before an after the attack to be effective. And technically, yes, only one AoO for a charging opponent, even with Combat Reflexes. However, it's a comic, and it's supposed to be silly, so don't worry about it.
Novacat 11-01-05, 02:50 AM	I should also ask how tall the character in question is. As a general rule, a humanoid cannot effectively use a weapon longer than himself. Let's assume that the Powerful Build ability allows him to use weapons of up to double his length (thereby allowing the use of larger weapons). Monkey Grip allows you to do exactly the same thing, but with a penalty. Both feats refer to your actual size, and no where does either feat mention "larger than normal" weapons, or "increase your effective size for purposes of wielding weapons". So, both logically and officially, your character can only wield a large weapon without incurring serious penalties, and Monkey Grip is a wasted feat for characters with Powerful Build. You (or someone) said that the sword is 20 feet long. Your character would then need to be at least 10 feet tall to wield it effectively. Ten feet tall is Large size (even for a Powerful Build creature). Your character is not large.
elecgraystone 11-01-05, 01:17 PM	I should also ask how tall the character in question is. As a general rule, a humanoid cannot effectively use a weapon longer than himself. Let's assume that the Powerful Build ability allows him to use weapons of up to double his length (thereby allowing the use of larger weapons). Monkey Grip allows you to do exactly the same thing, but with a penalty. Both feats refer to your actual size, and no where does either feat mention "larger than normal" weapons, or "increase your effective size for purposes of wielding weapons". So, both logically and officially, your character can only wield a large weapon without incurring serious penalties, and Monkey Grip is a wasted feat for characters with Powerful Build. You (or someone) said that the sword is 20 feet long. Your character would then need to be at least 10 feet tall to wield it effectively. Ten feet tall is Large size (even for a Powerful Build creature). Your character is not large. 3.5 main FAQ states that someone with powerful build and the exotic weapon prof. would be able to weild a huge fullblade. (pg24)