Bigger hole [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bigger hole [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DLoFunk
12-16-07, 01:24 PM Hey all, I'm kinda new at the craft magic items bit and am kinda stuck with a nifty idea. How would one go about crafting a portable hole, specifically a BIGGER hole (opening-wise)?
CryoSilver
12-16-07, 01:26 PM Ask your DM for a price adjustment, probably proportional to the volume of your larger hole.

A portable hole is about 275 cubic feet, and 20,000 gp. Go from there.
DLoFunk
12-16-07, 01:36 PM There is no DM. I had an idea for a theoretical solution to a problem posted on a different forum but I need to know if my answer would apply. Basically I need the $ adjustment from Med to Colossal.
InkBlot
12-16-07, 03:38 PM There aren't any rules for it. There aren't any rules at all for making new types of magic items. There are guidelines, but those are far from comprehensive.

The best method I've found for pricing magic items is to a) determine the level at which you think the players should have access to the effect the magic item generates, and b) price it as half the recommended wealth for that level. The Wealth By Level table is on page 135 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. However, this only works in context of an actual game. For a hypothetical situation in which it's assumed there is no game - only a world who's physical laws come out of the PHB - it holds no meaning.

edit: Step a) actually contains several sub-steps, including comparing the effect to existing items, class features, and feats.
Sinfire Titan
12-16-07, 07:41 PM Check the Portable Pit, from the Magic Item Compendium. 10' wide by 50' deep. It's a relic, so you have to be a certain alignment to use it properly.
Sigma34561
12-17-07, 10:39 AM The enveoping pit in the MIC is probably the sickest item in there.

Its a relic, so its hard to make, but you can open it if you are LE, NE, or LN. its 10 feet wide and 50 feet deep! and it only costs 3,500!!

compared to portable hole, 6ft wide and 10ft deep.

if you happen to be a fan of kurtlemak, and spend a feat or give up a spell slot... you can open it or close it on command from 60ft away.
'Dane
12-17-07, 12:57 PM hmm thats a toughie 'cause its not really like normal magic items/equipment.
one could assume that the ammount of magical energy required as well as the time and money expended would far exceed any possible use. Personnaly i would almost rule it as impossible, there probably is a reason that portable holes only come in one size. You could examine the multiplier for magic arms and armor increasing in size (something like x2 per size category?) and go from there (something like 160,000 or 320,000). Or since it is a hole to extradimentional space you could measure the volume occupied and multiply from there. We usually use a 10x10x10 hole instead of that 6x6x10 crap. so increasing to collasal size of 30x30x30. So you're going from an area of 1,000 cubic ft to one of 27,000, giving you a multiplyer of 27, or if you want to go from the 6x6x10=360 ft^3 it would be a multiplier of 75. I also thought that the hole was only 10,000 not 20,000 gold but either way its 270,000 to 1.5 mil. Which i assume is out of reach for most players. Or you could go with the magic +x modifier style and assign the regular portable hole as a +1 then go up four sizes to collasal for a +5 then square that to 25 and multiply the base price by that. giving you 250,000 or 500,000. So multiple ways of doing it and they all come out to a rediculous ammount of money.

In conclusion this seems incredibly impractical unless you are gigantic or collossal simply because it is a 30x30 ft tarp when wrapped up. And while you can fit an average house in it the monetary requirements for it seem unreasonable. And it would take a year or two to craft. and someone could stab it and destroy it with little effort and the resulting rift would likely have very severe consequences. Course you could probably get an Artificer to cast Harden on it a bunch of times till it's basically immune to damage.
Sigma34561
12-17-07, 05:22 PM i dont know where your getting this from but did you see my post?

also, large magic items cost the same amount, just the item being enchanted costs twice as much.

a large +1 longsword costs 2630gp. 2000 for magic, and twice the cost of a masterwork longsword 315 gp.
'Dane
12-17-07, 06:00 PM yea i saw your post but thats not what he asked for. Perhaps it will work in his hypothetical situation but it still isnt what he asked for.

also, large magic items cost the same amount, just the item being enchanted costs twice as much.

that was only one exaple out of several that gave a range of prices from 160k
to 1.5 mil. The magic price in your example isnt changing because the magic effect isnt changing. a large flaming longsword will do the same extra fire damage as a med. flaming one. But a colossal hole holds way more than a med one so i was just using a generic multiplier that seemed to fit the situation, since magic is completely unrelated to caster size. Your magic missle doesnt start doing 1d6+1 when you cast enlarge person on yourself does it? just as you dont take penalties to magic from being a halfling or a gnome rather than a human. So it makes sense that a larger magic effect should require much more than its regular counterpart.
risner
12-17-07, 07:18 PM There is no DM. I had an idea for a theoretical solution to a problem posted on a different forum but I need to know if my answer would apply. Basically I need the $ adjustment from Med to Colossal.

Ask your DM.

;-)
Sigma34561
12-18-07, 09:52 AM actually the entire size vs. magic system needs working on.

Eberron - The Magical Giant civilization! Wouldn't work under current rules. A giant would go to wizard school so he can learn now to not put to sleep anyone, color spray people (to no effect), from basically arms reach away, and magic missle his peers for what amounts to a giants splinter.

The flaming damage for the giant greatsword... wasted. +1d6 is worthless compared to increasing his overall damage by 5% for the +1 to hit.
'Dane
12-18-07, 10:58 AM actually the entire size vs. magic system needs working on.

yea i kinda have to agree there. But in order to do that they would have to decide how magic works as in where it comes from and i dont just mean the spells but the energy and what governs the ammount of energy one can have. I realise they do this already, more or less, With stats and whatnot. But the real question is that could a larger creature, with the same charisma as a Human sorcerer, cast more potent spells simply because of its size?

And yea I was wrong it is 20,000g for the portable hole. So average price using all the methods I came up with would be: 710,000g but that includes the 1.5 million one so i think a better preice might be 500,000g though thats still quite rediculous.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DLoFunk 12-16-07, 01:24 PM	Hey all, I'm kinda new at the craft magic items bit and am kinda stuck with a nifty idea. How would one go about crafting a portable hole, specifically a BIGGER hole (opening-wise)?
CryoSilver 12-16-07, 01:26 PM	Ask your DM for a price adjustment, probably proportional to the volume of your larger hole. A portable hole is about 275 cubic feet, and 20,000 gp. Go from there.
DLoFunk 12-16-07, 01:36 PM	There is no DM. I had an idea for a theoretical solution to a problem posted on a different forum but I need to know if my answer would apply. Basically I need the $ adjustment from Med to Colossal.
InkBlot 12-16-07, 03:38 PM	There aren't any rules for it. There aren't any rules at all for making new types of magic items. There are guidelines, but those are far from comprehensive. The best method I've found for pricing magic items is to a) determine the level at which you think the players should have access to the effect the magic item generates, and b) price it as half the recommended wealth for that level. The Wealth By Level table is on page 135 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. However, this only works in context of an actual game. For a hypothetical situation in which it's assumed there is no game - only a world who's physical laws come out of the PHB - it holds no meaning. edit: Step a) actually contains several sub-steps, including comparing the effect to existing items, class features, and feats.
Sinfire Titan 12-16-07, 07:41 PM	Check the Portable Pit, from the Magic Item Compendium. 10' wide by 50' deep. It's a relic, so you have to be a certain alignment to use it properly.
Sigma34561 12-17-07, 10:39 AM	The enveoping pit in the MIC is probably the sickest item in there. Its a relic, so its hard to make, but you can open it if you are LE, NE, or LN. its 10 feet wide and 50 feet deep! and it only costs 3,500!! compared to portable hole, 6ft wide and 10ft deep. if you happen to be a fan of kurtlemak, and spend a feat or give up a spell slot... you can open it or close it on command from 60ft away.
'Dane 12-17-07, 12:57 PM	hmm thats a toughie 'cause its not really like normal magic items/equipment. one could assume that the ammount of magical energy required as well as the time and money expended would far exceed any possible use. Personnaly i would almost rule it as impossible, there probably is a reason that portable holes only come in one size. You could examine the multiplier for magic arms and armor increasing in size (something like x2 per size category?) and go from there (something like 160,000 or 320,000). Or since it is a hole to extradimentional space you could measure the volume occupied and multiply from there. We usually use a 10x10x10 hole instead of that 6x6x10 crap. so increasing to collasal size of 30x30x30. So you're going from an area of 1,000 cubic ft to one of 27,000, giving you a multiplyer of 27, or if you want to go from the 6x6x10=360 ft^3 it would be a multiplier of 75. I also thought that the hole was only 10,000 not 20,000 gold but either way its 270,000 to 1.5 mil. Which i assume is out of reach for most players. Or you could go with the magic +x modifier style and assign the regular portable hole as a +1 then go up four sizes to collasal for a +5 then square that to 25 and multiply the base price by that. giving you 250,000 or 500,000. So multiple ways of doing it and they all come out to a rediculous ammount of money. In conclusion this seems incredibly impractical unless you are gigantic or collossal simply because it is a 30x30 ft tarp when wrapped up. And while you can fit an average house in it the monetary requirements for it seem unreasonable. And it would take a year or two to craft. and someone could stab it and destroy it with little effort and the resulting rift would likely have very severe consequences. Course you could probably get an Artificer to cast Harden on it a bunch of times till it's basically immune to damage.
Sigma34561 12-17-07, 05:22 PM	i dont know where your getting this from but did you see my post? also, large magic items cost the same amount, just the item being enchanted costs twice as much. a large +1 longsword costs 2630gp. 2000 for magic, and twice the cost of a masterwork longsword 315 gp.
'Dane 12-17-07, 06:00 PM	yea i saw your post but thats not what he asked for. Perhaps it will work in his hypothetical situation but it still isnt what he asked for. also, large magic items cost the same amount, just the item being enchanted costs twice as much. that was only one exaple out of several that gave a range of prices from 160k to 1.5 mil. The magic price in your example isnt changing because the magic effect isnt changing. a large flaming longsword will do the same extra fire damage as a med. flaming one. But a colossal hole holds way more than a med one so i was just using a generic multiplier that seemed to fit the situation, since magic is completely unrelated to caster size. Your magic missle doesnt start doing 1d6+1 when you cast enlarge person on yourself does it? just as you dont take penalties to magic from being a halfling or a gnome rather than a human. So it makes sense that a larger magic effect should require much more than its regular counterpart.
risner 12-17-07, 07:18 PM	There is no DM. I had an idea for a theoretical solution to a problem posted on a different forum but I need to know if my answer would apply. Basically I need the $ adjustment from Med to Colossal. Ask your DM. ;-)
Sigma34561 12-18-07, 09:52 AM	actually the entire size vs. magic system needs working on. Eberron - The Magical Giant civilization! Wouldn't work under current rules. A giant would go to wizard school so he can learn now to not put to sleep anyone, color spray people (to no effect), from basically arms reach away, and magic missle his peers for what amounts to a giants splinter. The flaming damage for the giant greatsword... wasted. +1d6 is worthless compared to increasing his overall damage by 5% for the +1 to hit.
'Dane 12-18-07, 10:58 AM	actually the entire size vs. magic system needs working on. yea i kinda have to agree there. But in order to do that they would have to decide how magic works as in where it comes from and i dont just mean the spells but the energy and what governs the ammount of energy one can have. I realise they do this already, more or less, With stats and whatnot. But the real question is that could a larger creature, with the same charisma as a Human sorcerer, cast more potent spells simply because of its size? And yea I was wrong it is 20,000g for the portable hole. So average price using all the methods I came up with would be: 710,000g but that includes the 1.5 million one so i think a better preice might be 500,000g though thats still quite rediculous.