Bite attack... as a human??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bite attack... as a human??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kels Hells
08-01-05, 12:27 PM Now this is going to sound, well... nuts, I am sure to most of you. But here goes....

I am playing a character (5ht level Fighter/6th level Ranger) who has willingly sharpened all his teeth to points... and has also slit his own tongue, so that it is seemingly forked (yes, he is modeling himself after a snake.. before anyone asks :smirk: ).

My question is.. that if in battle, would could he be allowed to make a Bite Attack.. and if so, what might the damage be??

He also has the Dirty Fighting Feat (Sword and Fist)... so I guess I could "say" that he bites someone, if he is successful with a melee attack.

I was curious if he could make a Bite attack, solely... bite into the neck of an opponent, for example.
Rulebook
08-01-05, 12:29 PM i'd rule he could... in a grapple, doing nonlethal damage even if you have improved unarmed strike.

human teeth (even filed down) just arent good weapons.
MasterOfPsychic
08-01-05, 12:33 PM anyone, is allowed to use a bite attack... while normaly that would be considered a unarmed strike, I guess...

but, as a DM, I would allow him, if the char has expenses for it, to bite as a bite attack.
Duration_10_Rounds
08-01-05, 12:45 PM Yeah i would say only when grappled, human phisiology (i.e where our heards are in relation to the rest of our body) makes leaning in to bite a foe that is facing you very dangerours.... you have your head forward, belly and throat exposed and are off balance.

Where your head would be while biting (leaning forward) you would not be able to see the hands or feet of your target very well... in my ruling ,unless you where grappling, you would be flat footed, vunerable to sneak attack and if you where trying to sneak attack with a bite you would do so at -6 as viable targets to a sneak-bite from a small human mouth are far fewer than viable targets to a stilleto also you would require to get much closer to a foe to bite making sneaking the attack that much harder.

Sure you can do it for flavour but it would be a terribly usless attack.
mvincent
08-01-05, 12:50 PM could he be allowed to make a Bite Attack.. and if so, what might the damage be??I would treat it as an unarmed strike. If you take the improved unarmed strike feat, you can treat it as lethal damage (and also avoid an AoO). Alternately, it wouldn't be unbalancing for your DM to permit you to treat your teeth as similar to a spiked gauntlet.

For a more worthwhile bite attack, the dragon disciple prestige class might give you some ideas.
Lord Schpungus
08-01-05, 05:04 PM The warforged can gain a bite attack as a feat. In a special case such as this, I could be convinced to give your character the same deal.
kjenks
08-01-05, 05:10 PM I agree with mvincent. A human bite inflicts 1d3+Str nonlethal, provoking an AoO. This is an unarmed strike in every respect. You can use the two-weapon fighting rules to make an off-hand attack this way, even if your hands are full. This might actually be worthwhile if you're using Power Attack all the way and you're just hoping for a natural 20.
q'afuu
08-01-05, 06:37 PM A human bite inflicts 1d3+Str nonlethal, provoking an AoO. This is an unarmed strike in every respect. I agree except for the last part. Unarmed strikes have a 5 ft. reach (for Medium characters at least). I wouldn't give that to bite attacks, even if monsters with a bite attack do get it. Humans aren't built for that (they're bipeds who stand up completely straight,don't have a neck that's suited for a wide range of motion and don't have a muzzle so the shape of their mouth makes efficient biting difficult), if they want to bite someone they have to move into that foe's square or pull the foe into theirs.
mvincent
08-01-05, 07:26 PM Humans aren't built for that (they're bipeds who stand up completely straight,don't have a neck that's suited for a wide range of motion and don't have a muzzle so the shape of their mouth makes efficient biting difficult), if they want to bite someone they have to move into that foe's square or pull the foe into theirs.Meh. It's just a fantasy game. Using the unarmed strike rules is (if nothing else) fair and balanced. But note that in D&D, a Dragon Disciple (among other things) seems to bite fairly effectively while still being built like a human.
xver
08-01-05, 07:30 PM The warforged can gain a bite attack as a feat. In a special case such as this, I could be convinced to give your character the same deal. Hmm. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bite, not bad. Mike Tyson School of Boxing, too OOC and in bad taste. Oooh, I know, Deranged Hermit :P
q'afuu
08-01-05, 07:43 PM Meh. It's just a fantasy game. Using the unarmed strike rules is (if nothing else) fair and balanced. But note that in D&D, a Dragon Disciple (among other things) seems to bite fairly effectively while still being built like a human. Oh, you're absolutely right about the DD (and there are plenty of other, similar cases. Vampires, for instance). I just don't happen to agree with those cases, but I admit it's a personal preference. :)

(as an aside, all those cases 'gain' a bit attack at some point, apparently because they grow fangs. That indicates a minor physical change at least)
Vahenir
08-01-05, 08:43 PM I'd allow it. 1d4 flat lethal damage (I don't get how people can think sharpened teeth ripping into flesh is somehow not lethal). Bite attack is free (and can only be used) upon a successful grapple.

That's part of a houserule I typically use - bite attacks always require a successful grapple unless the creature -type- (like a dragon) is naturally built to be able to bite without grabbing onto its victim.
ĐēşţĩŊŷ
08-01-05, 09:36 PM Wouldn't it like ruin your bite attack, because you've sharpened your teeth? Considering nerves etc. I don't think human teeth was made for bitin', but whatever suits you. Like the guys above stated, you could do it as a feat or something.
By the way, great idea for the dirty fighting :P orc barbarian...hehe..
On a second thought!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/Destinies/lpe00128.jpg
Look at those teeth!
ronyon
08-02-05, 08:27 AM I belive this is considered a feat, bought as part of the (Vile) Willing Deformnity Chain in the Vile Darkness Book. Also, there are various spells, grafts, and a granted domain power that can do this,so no actual Bite attacks for free, please.
As far as Unarmed attacks, decribe it any way you like, says I.
Kels Hells
08-02-05, 10:09 AM I had no idea this would stir up this many different points of view... it is interesting to see.. but it sounds like a house rule (allowed by the DM) seems to be the most recurrent thing.

As for lethal/nonlethal damage... I guess the question came up as I had seen a program on Discovery Channel: Shark Week where it was estimated that the human bute is 150 lbs. of pressure per square inch... and the shark's was equal.

However, ift the shark were charging through the water the pressure increases due to the force and weight of the shark in motion. (The show was called Shark Bite... I think and went through the only documented shark attack on video... it was gruesome as heck at the end :OMG! )

I wish I could give you all an idea of what my guy looks like (so that you would get a better idea of the character.. not that that matters much). I have a drawing of him created for me.. but am not sure where I can post it to "show" people.... it is SWEET!!!
ClementWillowbreaker
08-02-05, 10:24 PM Saying that is where his Dirty Fighting damage is coming from is the simpliest thing, and quite original.

A human is never going to get a bite as a natural weapon, so using it as an unarmed strike is just as balanced. Creative dentistry != a free Feat, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kels Hells 08-01-05, 12:27 PM	Now this is going to sound, well... nuts, I am sure to most of you. But here goes.... I am playing a character (5ht level Fighter/6th level Ranger) who has willingly sharpened all his teeth to points... and has also slit his own tongue, so that it is seemingly forked (yes, he is modeling himself after a snake.. before anyone asks :smirk: ). My question is.. that if in battle, would could he be allowed to make a Bite Attack.. and if so, what might the damage be?? He also has the Dirty Fighting Feat (Sword and Fist)... so I guess I could "say" that he bites someone, if he is successful with a melee attack. I was curious if he could make a Bite attack, solely... bite into the neck of an opponent, for example.
Rulebook 08-01-05, 12:29 PM	i'd rule he could... in a grapple, doing nonlethal damage even if you have improved unarmed strike. human teeth (even filed down) just arent good weapons.
MasterOfPsychic 08-01-05, 12:33 PM	anyone, is allowed to use a bite attack... while normaly that would be considered a unarmed strike, I guess... but, as a DM, I would allow him, if the char has expenses for it, to bite as a bite attack.
Duration_10_Rounds 08-01-05, 12:45 PM	Yeah i would say only when grappled, human phisiology (i.e where our heards are in relation to the rest of our body) makes leaning in to bite a foe that is facing you very dangerours.... you have your head forward, belly and throat exposed and are off balance. Where your head would be while biting (leaning forward) you would not be able to see the hands or feet of your target very well... in my ruling ,unless you where grappling, you would be flat footed, vunerable to sneak attack and if you where trying to sneak attack with a bite you would do so at -6 as viable targets to a sneak-bite from a small human mouth are far fewer than viable targets to a stilleto also you would require to get much closer to a foe to bite making sneaking the attack that much harder. Sure you can do it for flavour but it would be a terribly usless attack.
mvincent 08-01-05, 12:50 PM	could he be allowed to make a Bite Attack.. and if so, what might the damage be??I would treat it as an unarmed strike. If you take the improved unarmed strike feat, you can treat it as lethal damage (and also avoid an AoO). Alternately, it wouldn't be unbalancing for your DM to permit you to treat your teeth as similar to a spiked gauntlet. For a more worthwhile bite attack, the dragon disciple prestige class might give you some ideas.
Lord Schpungus 08-01-05, 05:04 PM	The warforged can gain a bite attack as a feat. In a special case such as this, I could be convinced to give your character the same deal.
kjenks 08-01-05, 05:10 PM	I agree with mvincent. A human bite inflicts 1d3+Str nonlethal, provoking an AoO. This is an unarmed strike in every respect. You can use the two-weapon fighting rules to make an off-hand attack this way, even if your hands are full. This might actually be worthwhile if you're using Power Attack all the way and you're just hoping for a natural 20.
q'afuu 08-01-05, 06:37 PM	A human bite inflicts 1d3+Str nonlethal, provoking an AoO. This is an unarmed strike in every respect. I agree except for the last part. Unarmed strikes have a 5 ft. reach (for Medium characters at least). I wouldn't give that to bite attacks, even if monsters with a bite attack do get it. Humans aren't built for that (they're bipeds who stand up completely straight,don't have a neck that's suited for a wide range of motion and don't have a muzzle so the shape of their mouth makes efficient biting difficult), if they want to bite someone they have to move into that foe's square or pull the foe into theirs.
mvincent 08-01-05, 07:26 PM	Humans aren't built for that (they're bipeds who stand up completely straight,don't have a neck that's suited for a wide range of motion and don't have a muzzle so the shape of their mouth makes efficient biting difficult), if they want to bite someone they have to move into that foe's square or pull the foe into theirs.Meh. It's just a fantasy game. Using the unarmed strike rules is (if nothing else) fair and balanced. But note that in D&D, a Dragon Disciple (among other things) seems to bite fairly effectively while still being built like a human.
xver 08-01-05, 07:30 PM	The warforged can gain a bite attack as a feat. In a special case such as this, I could be convinced to give your character the same deal. Hmm. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bite, not bad. Mike Tyson School of Boxing, too OOC and in bad taste. Oooh, I know, Deranged Hermit :P
q'afuu 08-01-05, 07:43 PM	Meh. It's just a fantasy game. Using the unarmed strike rules is (if nothing else) fair and balanced. But note that in D&D, a Dragon Disciple (among other things) seems to bite fairly effectively while still being built like a human. Oh, you're absolutely right about the DD (and there are plenty of other, similar cases. Vampires, for instance). I just don't happen to agree with those cases, but I admit it's a personal preference. :) (as an aside, all those cases 'gain' a bit attack at some point, apparently because they grow fangs. That indicates a minor physical change at least)
Vahenir 08-01-05, 08:43 PM	I'd allow it. 1d4 flat lethal damage (I don't get how people can think sharpened teeth ripping into flesh is somehow not lethal). Bite attack is free (and can only be used) upon a successful grapple. That's part of a houserule I typically use - bite attacks always require a successful grapple unless the creature -type- (like a dragon) is naturally built to be able to bite without grabbing onto its victim.
ĐēşţĩŊŷ 08-01-05, 09:36 PM	Wouldn't it like ruin your bite attack, because you've sharpened your teeth? Considering nerves etc. I don't think human teeth was made for bitin', but whatever suits you. Like the guys above stated, you could do it as a feat or something. By the way, great idea for the dirty fighting :P orc barbarian...hehe.. On a second thought! http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/Destinies/lpe00128.jpg Look at those teeth!
ronyon 08-02-05, 08:27 AM	I belive this is considered a feat, bought as part of the (Vile) Willing Deformnity Chain in the Vile Darkness Book. Also, there are various spells, grafts, and a granted domain power that can do this,so no actual Bite attacks for free, please. As far as Unarmed attacks, decribe it any way you like, says I.
Kels Hells 08-02-05, 10:09 AM	I had no idea this would stir up this many different points of view... it is interesting to see.. but it sounds like a house rule (allowed by the DM) seems to be the most recurrent thing. As for lethal/nonlethal damage... I guess the question came up as I had seen a program on Discovery Channel: Shark Week where it was estimated that the human bute is 150 lbs. of pressure per square inch... and the shark's was equal. However, ift the shark were charging through the water the pressure increases due to the force and weight of the shark in motion. (The show was called Shark Bite... I think and went through the only documented shark attack on video... it was gruesome as heck at the end :OMG! ) I wish I could give you all an idea of what my guy looks like (so that you would get a better idea of the character.. not that that matters much). I have a drawing of him created for me.. but am not sure where I can post it to "show" people.... it is SWEET!!!
ClementWillowbreaker 08-02-05, 10:24 PM	Saying that is where his Dirty Fighting damage is coming from is the simpliest thing, and quite original. A human is never going to get a bite as a natural weapon, so using it as an unarmed strike is just as balanced. Creative dentistry != a free Feat, though.