Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlbertOne 11-18-06, 07:13 PM	Hi you all. A simple question: can a blind PC use throw weapons against enemies? If yes, how can I "randomize" target square? Player knows where enemy is, but not the blind character.
draconic_swine 11-18-06, 08:42 PM	The rules on blindness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#blinded) and concealment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment) should provide a solid basis for what you're looking for. Edit: Invisibilty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility) will also help.
AlbertOne 11-18-06, 09:23 PM	Rules aren't clear. From "Ranged Attack": ...With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight... From "Blinded": ...All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character... From "Total Concealment": ...If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies... According the "Ranged Attack" rule you cannot throw at any target with total concealment, because there isn't a line of sight. "Total concealment" rule states that it's possible to attack a square that you think enemy occupies. Which rule is correct? If a blinded character can choose a target square that he think occupied by the enemy, the player sees the battle grid and sees the enemy, so I cannot let him to choose target square: I must to randomize this process.
ibayboy 11-18-06, 11:06 PM	Why don't you try, DM "Roll for inititaive !, and someone blindfold player xxx." Then as combat unfolds, the other players can use their chatacter position and senses to relay info to the blind one, staying within the rules of just how much a character can get across in one round. I'm not sure how to rule on throwing at a grid square as directed by another character, but it shouldn't be too hard to work out. Of course even if he gets the right square, there is still the 50% miss chance for total concealment.
Masterfulks 11-18-06, 11:30 PM	Listen checks could narrow things down a bit. If the character has been blind for a long time, then I would give them a big bonus to listen checks. You might also give them some form of scent ability if they are up against something that would give off a strong odor.
AlbertOne 11-19-06, 09:29 AM	These answers are good answers, but only if a blinded character can use a throw weapon. But my first question was (see post #3): according the rules (that are unclear) can a blided character use a throw weapon? Furthermore "Blinded" condition states "...All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail..." So using a throw weapon isn't an activity that rely on vision???
Rulebook 11-19-06, 11:43 AM	throwing something at an enemy dosent rely on vision. it relys on muscle control. aiming it properly is certainly helped by seeing though.
Someone 11-19-06, 01:03 PM	Yes, you can still throw things while blind/ can't see your opponent. It happens all the time in the movies, just toss some peanuts on the ground...
savant_warlord13 11-19-06, 02:47 PM	The square targeted shouldn't be completely randomized, as even a blind person is going to have a general idea of what direction the enemy is in. For instance, if you are trying to hit the charging orcs, you aren't going to be throwing your weapons in the opposite direction.
AlbertOne 11-19-06, 04:32 PM	The square targeted shouldn't be completely randomized, as even a blind person is going to have a general idea of what direction the enemy is in. Right, but in which way I can randomize the process? There are many target squares that are in little (say 30° for example) arc of fire... In addition if the character fails the listen check, in which direction he will aim? He could target another PC for example, or a wall at 2 yds
Lycanthromancer 11-19-06, 05:27 PM	Listen check vs Move Silently check (with sufficient penalties if the other creature isn't trying to be silent) to determine which area (within a 5' radius of a single square) the creature is in. Then roll 2d3, with one die determining 'rows' and the other determining 'columns'. 1 2 3 ----- 1 | x x x 2 | x x x 3 | x x x And that's if he's a good distance away. If the blind character is within a few squares, allow him to throw his weapon in a line. If the creature is somewhere in the line, he gets the 50% miss-chance, then AC. Of course, having a Seeking weapon would be great for this character. I had a thri-kreen character with a Bow of Seeking that was blinded just before getting attacked by a rust-monster. :censored: It had attacked him from the front (somewhere within a 3-square swath), so I moved to the side and down, lining up all three possible squares with a full-attack. Due to the Seeking property, I managed to kill the danged thing within one round.
Lunas_Argent 11-19-06, 06:21 PM	Hi you all. A simple question: can a blind PC use throw weapons against enemies? If yes, how can I "randomize" target square? Player knows where enemy is, but not the blind character.If you really want to "randomize" it, have him standing in a corner throwing holy water at a coat-rack screaming "The power of Christ compels you!"
AlbertOne 11-19-06, 08:10 PM	Listen check vs Move Silently check (with sufficient penalties if the other creature isn't trying to be silent) to determine which area (within a 5' radius of a single square) the creature is in. Then roll 2d3, with one die determining 'rows' and the other determining 'columns'. ... ...and if the check fails in which direction (or squares) the PC will throw?
Lycanthromancer 11-19-06, 10:54 PM	Roll 2d3 and do something similar with 9 groups of 9 squares with the original 9 in the center. Then roll 2d3 and have the character fire into that square.
Masterfulks 11-19-06, 11:09 PM	You could use the 'cone' layout of square. See where the target is in the cone. Then count the number of squares between the target and the blind character. Give them a 1 chance in how many ever squares there are to hit the right one. So the closer they are the odds increase a great deal.
Tyraxus 11-19-06, 11:22 PM	How 'bout this: use a d8 and count around the character in a clockwise direction. That seems the best way to randomise a direction to me anyway. Ex: 8 1 2 7 X 3 6 5 4 Even if you're blind you're going to be able to determine straight down and not throw that way. Then use the 2d3 method or cone method, or if he's good at aiming things (say, a high Dex, focus with the weapon, or a really good listen check) then use a d10 and have 1-2 (or 9-10 if you like high rolls better) be the target square, and count around the square in the mannar desribed above. I don't have a problem with either of the other methods, though, so use whatever. This is just an alternate system if you feel like you need more options. Either system, though, if you wanted some added realism, you could add an "accidental hit" mechanic. For example: 8 1 2 7 Y 3 6 5 4 8 1 2 7 X 3 6 5 4 Player X throws at Enemy Y. He gets a natural 20 on his Listen check, so there's no random direction thrown, and he needs a 9 or 10 to hit the enemy. He rolls a 1, indicating the square directly behind the enemy. Have the defender roll a reflex save (DC 20-ish or so) to avoid the weapon, if he fails have the attacker roll an attack roll at -4 or so to hit and then if he hits a damage roll with a -4 or so to damage (min 1). Same thing if he rolls a 5 for the attack square, only with a -8 to hit and damage rather than -4, because the weapon is aimed to land short of the enemy rather than going through the space.