Blindness and Dirty Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blindness and Dirty Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hughman
03-11-05, 09:29 PM OK, I am a Rogue/Sorcerer and looking for new ways (though this is probaly an old way) to get my targets off guard and flat footed. Thinking of starting carying around a (loosely open) pouch of Dust/Flour/Chalk/Whatever like substance is handy and in battle throwing some Dust in an opponent's face. If I can get the powder in it's eyes is should be blinded for a while.

I have looked and am not seeing this covered in the rules. Before I try it in combat (and potentially provoke a long rules debate in the heat of battle) I would like to have some ideas as to how this should be handled, so I can give my DM some starting points for ruling how it works.

Anyone have a rules citation or a working, proven balanced House role covering this type of situation?

(yes, I have my thoughts, and will post them later on, don't want to prejudice the discussion)

Hughman.
hughman
03-12-05, 11:00 AM Seems I missed Primetime last night. Bump!
Callista
03-12-05, 11:18 AM Hmm... Dex-based Feint, maybe?
Tsuul
03-12-05, 12:59 PM Get them to make balance checks.
Coating the area liberally with Grease should help.
hughman
03-12-05, 01:40 PM And the point has been missed entirely. In so many words: Are there any rules for when you throw dust in a person's eyes?

Hughman
the shaderaven
03-12-05, 02:07 PM I would rule maximum range 5 ft. for the thrown dust and then the target hit by it must make Fort save against DC 10 + your Dex modifier or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. He can take a standart action the provokes attack of opportunity to clear his eyes and end the blindness.
You can make a more potent blinding alchemical substance that increase the DC by to and adds one round to the duration. It requires DC 20 Craft (Alchemy) check and spending 2 gp for raw matherials.
That is a house rule of course and I am creating it at the moment so it might not be very balanced.
rhflyweyr
03-12-05, 03:17 PM Well you can look at it one of two ways, if your intension is to blind them with it (ie actually get dust in their eyes) then it is simply a ranged attack (probably touch) with an Improvised weapon (-4 penalty, range increment of 5) that deals no damage but blinds. OR you can do it to distract them, in which case it is just a normal Feint in combat (maybe with a circumstance bonus, standard +2) but still a bluff check because it isnt a matter of throwing it, but instead a matter of making them believe that that is where the attack is coming from.
hughman
03-14-05, 01:37 AM Well you can look at it one of two ways, if your intension is to blind them with it (ie actually get dust in their eyes) then it is simply a ranged attack (probably touch) with an Improvised weapon (-4 penalty, range increment of 5) that deals no damage but blinds. OR you can do it to distract them, in which case it is just a normal Feint in combat (maybe with a circumstance bonus, standard +2) but still a bluff check because it isnt a matter of throwing it, but instead a matter of making them believe that that is where the attack is coming from.
Seing as I am a Rogue, and Blindness=SA that is what I was going for. Hmmm. Ranged touch I can see... armor wouldn't help on avoiding that... 1d4 duration I like... not sure I agree with the improvised weapon. First, it isn't improvised as I am planning ahead to use it (not totally true to the definition of improvised I know, but part of the definition) and, while I can think of ways to make weapons that will be better at the delivery (like a short blowgun/tube) there isn't much to the dust itself that would make it more effective. And, being hand thrown it would spread out more, making a hit more likely, to my thinking.

I was thinking of using a reflex save, instead of a Fort save. Doesn't matter how buff you are, or how sturdy a person you are, if you get something in your eye, you won't see. But if you can duck, or close your eyes at the right moment then you can avoid the damage totally better. would also thing that a person in a greathelm with the visor down would get a bonus to avoid blindess. Hmmm have to keep looking. Thanks for your thoughts.

Eventually I will be able to afford the Powder of the Black Veil out of CA in quantity to make it useable. :schemes:

Just one or the tricks I plan on useing. See, I am expecting my DM to make it tough to get in SAs and I am planning ahead.

Hughman
High Octane
03-14-05, 04:43 AM prepared dust = +2 circumstantial modifier to feint check.

Easy rule of thumb. It has to be something better than dirt (which is what could be used in a regular feint, thats the players discretion just like deciding whether you slice at the head or chest with a sword is considered in a regular sword attack), such as finely ground pepper or chalk dust. Dust gets in eyes easier than heavy course dirt :P

Just a quick option.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hughman 03-11-05, 09:29 PM	OK, I am a Rogue/Sorcerer and looking for new ways (though this is probaly an old way) to get my targets off guard and flat footed. Thinking of starting carying around a (loosely open) pouch of Dust/Flour/Chalk/Whatever like substance is handy and in battle throwing some Dust in an opponent's face. If I can get the powder in it's eyes is should be blinded for a while. I have looked and am not seeing this covered in the rules. Before I try it in combat (and potentially provoke a long rules debate in the heat of battle) I would like to have some ideas as to how this should be handled, so I can give my DM some starting points for ruling how it works. Anyone have a rules citation or a working, proven balanced House role covering this type of situation? (yes, I have my thoughts, and will post them later on, don't want to prejudice the discussion) Hughman.
hughman 03-12-05, 11:00 AM	Seems I missed Primetime last night. Bump!
Callista 03-12-05, 11:18 AM	Hmm... Dex-based Feint, maybe?
Tsuul 03-12-05, 12:59 PM	Get them to make balance checks. Coating the area liberally with Grease should help.
hughman 03-12-05, 01:40 PM	And the point has been missed entirely. In so many words: Are there any rules for when you throw dust in a person's eyes? Hughman
the shaderaven 03-12-05, 02:07 PM	I would rule maximum range 5 ft. for the thrown dust and then the target hit by it must make Fort save against DC 10 + your Dex modifier or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. He can take a standart action the provokes attack of opportunity to clear his eyes and end the blindness. You can make a more potent blinding alchemical substance that increase the DC by to and adds one round to the duration. It requires DC 20 Craft (Alchemy) check and spending 2 gp for raw matherials. That is a house rule of course and I am creating it at the moment so it might not be very balanced.
rhflyweyr 03-12-05, 03:17 PM	Well you can look at it one of two ways, if your intension is to blind them with it (ie actually get dust in their eyes) then it is simply a ranged attack (probably touch) with an Improvised weapon (-4 penalty, range increment of 5) that deals no damage but blinds. OR you can do it to distract them, in which case it is just a normal Feint in combat (maybe with a circumstance bonus, standard +2) but still a bluff check because it isnt a matter of throwing it, but instead a matter of making them believe that that is where the attack is coming from.
hughman 03-14-05, 01:37 AM	Well you can look at it one of two ways, if your intension is to blind them with it (ie actually get dust in their eyes) then it is simply a ranged attack (probably touch) with an Improvised weapon (-4 penalty, range increment of 5) that deals no damage but blinds. OR you can do it to distract them, in which case it is just a normal Feint in combat (maybe with a circumstance bonus, standard +2) but still a bluff check because it isnt a matter of throwing it, but instead a matter of making them believe that that is where the attack is coming from. Seing as I am a Rogue, and Blindness=SA that is what I was going for. Hmmm. Ranged touch I can see... armor wouldn't help on avoiding that... 1d4 duration I like... not sure I agree with the improvised weapon. First, it isn't improvised as I am planning ahead to use it (not totally true to the definition of improvised I know, but part of the definition) and, while I can think of ways to make weapons that will be better at the delivery (like a short blowgun/tube) there isn't much to the dust itself that would make it more effective. And, being hand thrown it would spread out more, making a hit more likely, to my thinking. I was thinking of using a reflex save, instead of a Fort save. Doesn't matter how buff you are, or how sturdy a person you are, if you get something in your eye, you won't see. But if you can duck, or close your eyes at the right moment then you can avoid the damage totally better. would also thing that a person in a greathelm with the visor down would get a bonus to avoid blindess. Hmmm have to keep looking. Thanks for your thoughts. Eventually I will be able to afford the Powder of the Black Veil out of CA in quantity to make it useable. :schemes: Just one or the tricks I plan on useing. See, I am expecting my DM to make it tough to get in SAs and I am planning ahead. Hughman
High Octane 03-14-05, 04:43 AM	prepared dust = +2 circumstantial modifier to feint check. Easy rule of thumb. It has to be something better than dirt (which is what could be used in a regular feint, thats the players discretion just like deciding whether you slice at the head or chest with a sword is considered in a regular sword attack), such as finely ground pepper or chalk dust. Dust gets in eyes easier than heavy course dirt :P Just a quick option.