Blindness, Blindsight & Magic in Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blindness, Blindsight & Magic in Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BaelinWhale
11-23-05, 10:31 AM I'd like to request some advise from the community forum regarding how they (that means you :D ) would adjudicate blindness, which under the rules (as far as I know), isn't really all that much of a handicap.

In D&D, most players, even while their characters are blinded, are still actively participating in combat. The players can still view the battlegrid and call their actions as appropriate while masking their actions under the dubious argument that they remember where each opponent was standing and can therefore distinguish them from there. (You try closing your eyes in a room with people shouting, screaming and moving all over and see if you can remember where your friends and foes are standing in relation to you) :eek:

This isn't really a problem for handling Fighter-types since the rules are pretty clear-cut about what they can and can't do while blinded. However, most spells don't require any accuracy in targeting and will still strike so long as the caster can correctly designate the 5-ft square his intended target is standing in.

Question #1: Does Blindsight allow you to distinguish friend from foe? As I'm given to understand, Blindsight is kinda like a blip on the radar - it shows you where things are, but not whether they're hostiles or friendlies.

Question #2: How would you handle blind spellcasters casting spells with a Target descriptor? Eg. Magic Missile, Middle Finger of Death, Power Word, etc.

Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character? For example: How accurate would his range perception be? (Eg. Could he use a signal sound to precisely target a particular square, etc.)

Feel free to point out any other subject related issues I might have missed. Thanks all.
Bopple
11-23-05, 10:47 AM However, most spells don't require any accuracy in targeting and will still strike so long as they simply designate the 5-ft square they are standing in.
What made you think so? It's clearly stated in the rules that you must be able to see the target.

Question #1: Does Blindsight allow you to distinguish friend from foe? As I'm given to understand, Blindsight is kinda like a blip on the radar - it shows you where things are, but not whether they're hostiles or friendlies.
Blindsight is not radar - that is Blindsense.
Think of Dare Devil. That's Blindsight.
And some Blindsights depend on smell. Your dog can discern you by smell, can't it?

Question #2: How would you handle blind spellcasters casting spells with a Target descriptor? Eg. Magic Missile, Middle Finger of Death, Power Word, etc.
See above.

Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character?
I am not sure what you are trying to say. Can you be more specific?
Ace the Dead
11-23-05, 10:48 AM Blindness really, really sucks if your a caster, because of in order to target a spell on someone you need line of sight. So magic missle et al are nonfunctional while blind. Most of the area effect spells can be targeted to some degree with the aid of allies: (my party has a ninja with a +17 reflex save, evaison and fire resistence; when she's blind he asks the sorcoress to target her fireballs on him).

Blindsight allows you to do anything you could do with vision, only using nonvisual means (and restricted to a limited range). Blindsense allows you to pick out what square a creature is in. Unless your deaf (or the enemies are too crowded), you may be able to pick out which "blips" are hostile using audio cues. ("All my allies were wearing plate, and that one creature isn't making clanking. HA"). I don't believe blindsense overrides the need for line of sight, but if I wrong it won't be the first time.

Happy Gaming.
Black Mantha
11-23-05, 02:04 PM Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character? For example: How accurate would his range perception be? (Eg. Could he use a signal sound to precisely target a particular square, etc.)
Punch him each time he's using meta-game knowledge. ;) For the rest, intelligence checks to see if he can accurately remember where somebody stood (useless once they start moving) and listen checks to see if they can hear exactly where someone is, with a serperate one to identify. As for DC's; move silently check (or 10+armour check penalty if they're not trying to be quiet), must make it 10 over DC to pinpoint to a square, +6 for noisy surroundings, -6 if you're identifying someone using a class of armour noone else does, and don't forget the range penalty.)
That's just off the top of my head, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BaelinWhale 11-23-05, 10:31 AM	I'd like to request some advise from the community forum regarding how they (that means you :D ) would adjudicate blindness, which under the rules (as far as I know), isn't really all that much of a handicap. In D&D, most players, even while their characters are blinded, are still actively participating in combat. The players can still view the battlegrid and call their actions as appropriate while masking their actions under the dubious argument that they remember where each opponent was standing and can therefore distinguish them from there. (You try closing your eyes in a room with people shouting, screaming and moving all over and see if you can remember where your friends and foes are standing in relation to you) :eek: This isn't really a problem for handling Fighter-types since the rules are pretty clear-cut about what they can and can't do while blinded. However, most spells don't require any accuracy in targeting and will still strike so long as the caster can correctly designate the 5-ft square his intended target is standing in. Question #1: Does Blindsight allow you to distinguish friend from foe? As I'm given to understand, Blindsight is kinda like a blip on the radar - it shows you where things are, but not whether they're hostiles or friendlies. Question #2: How would you handle blind spellcasters casting spells with a Target descriptor? Eg. Magic Missile, Middle Finger of Death, Power Word, etc. Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character? For example: How accurate would his range perception be? (Eg. Could he use a signal sound to precisely target a particular square, etc.) Feel free to point out any other subject related issues I might have missed. Thanks all.
Bopple 11-23-05, 10:47 AM	However, most spells don't require any accuracy in targeting and will still strike so long as they simply designate the 5-ft square they are standing in. What made you think so? It's clearly stated in the rules that you must be able to see the target. Question #1: Does Blindsight allow you to distinguish friend from foe? As I'm given to understand, Blindsight is kinda like a blip on the radar - it shows you where things are, but not whether they're hostiles or friendlies. Blindsight is not radar - that is Blindsense. Think of Dare Devil. That's Blindsight. And some Blindsights depend on smell. Your dog can discern you by smell, can't it? Question #2: How would you handle blind spellcasters casting spells with a Target descriptor? Eg. Magic Missile, Middle Finger of Death, Power Word, etc. See above. Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Can you be more specific?
Ace the Dead 11-23-05, 10:48 AM	Blindness really, really sucks if your a caster, because of in order to target a spell on someone you need line of sight. So magic missle et al are nonfunctional while blind. Most of the area effect spells can be targeted to some degree with the aid of allies: (my party has a ninja with a +17 reflex save, evaison and fire resistence; when she's blind he asks the sorcoress to target her fireballs on him). Blindsight allows you to do anything you could do with vision, only using nonvisual means (and restricted to a limited range). Blindsense allows you to pick out what square a creature is in. Unless your deaf (or the enemies are too crowded), you may be able to pick out which "blips" are hostile using audio cues. ("All my allies were wearing plate, and that one creature isn't making clanking. HA"). I don't believe blindsense overrides the need for line of sight, but if I wrong it won't be the first time. Happy Gaming.
Black Mantha 11-23-05, 02:04 PM	Question #3: How would you enforce the restrictions faced by a blind character? For example: How accurate would his range perception be? (Eg. Could he use a signal sound to precisely target a particular square, etc.) Punch him each time he's using meta-game knowledge. ;) For the rest, intelligence checks to see if he can accurately remember where somebody stood (useless once they start moving) and listen checks to see if they can hear exactly where someone is, with a serperate one to identify. As for DC's; move silently check (or 10+armour check penalty if they're not trying to be quiet), must make it 10 over DC to pinpoint to a square, +6 for noisy surroundings, -6 if you're identifying someone using a class of armour noone else does, and don't forget the range penalty.) That's just off the top of my head, though.