Block and tackle????????????????? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Block and tackle????????????????? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dark Prince Illazar
06-13-07, 10:51 AM Ok i have always heard block and tackle to be a pully systeam. it is listed in the PHB but what it dose or the bounes it gives is not dose any one know the answer to this if so let me know
tarkin
06-13-07, 11:18 AM A Block and Tackle is a device for enhancing strength when pulling two items together.

It requires rope.

Typically it is used to lift something up, in combination with some kind of crane/crane like device, but it can also be used to drag.

Effectively it multiples your strength by taking more time.

The amount of strength multiplication depends on the block design and the amount of rope.

The simplest version would simply double your effective strength and double the amount of time to lift the item.

This would take 51+ ft of rope to move something upto 25 ft.

If you wanted to triple your effective strength you would need 76 ft of rope (and an appropriate block/tackle system designed for tripling)

You can always use a higher set up for a lower ammount, simply by ignoring some of the pulleys.

I.E.. If you have a tripler system, you can choose to only double the strength, saving you time and rope, but making you more tired.

--------------------------

In a primitive society/non-scientific, I would assume a non-masterwork system would probably max out at at 4. That would be 4 pulleys It would take 41 ft of rope to move an object 10 ft, effectively multiplying the max lift you have by x4.

A masterwork version might get as high as 8 pulleys.

It would take 81 ft of rope to move an object 10 ft, effectively multiplying your strength x 8.
CryoSilver
06-13-07, 03:18 PM What he said. But one note: I almost never see pulleys that multiply by more than 3, and only one in my whole life that multiplied by 5. That one was used to hoist large beams for the reconstruction of a ship.

I would require (as DM) a DC 10 Use Rope check to properly use a block and tackle; they're pretty easy to jam or tangle up if you don't set them up right.
tarkin
06-13-07, 04:08 PM I bow to Cryosilver's numbers.

Non-masterwork: 3 pulleys (x3 strength, x3 time, x3 rope required)

Masterwork: 5 pulleys (x5 strength, x5 time, x5 rope required)
dengarbountyhunter
06-14-07, 01:29 PM Don't you have to fix the system to something? For example, fix the pulleys to a stone wall with pitons to haul your loot over a cliff?
jaelis
06-14-07, 01:34 PM Also, it should really multiply the amount you can lift, not your strength itself. For instance, a Str 10 character could normally lift 100 lbs. With a x3 pulley, he could lift 300 lbs. That's what a Str 18 character can do unaided.
dengarbountyhunter
06-14-07, 02:02 PM You're right about that.
InkBlot
06-14-07, 05:53 PM Ok i have always heard block and tackle to be a pully systeam. it is listed in the PHB but what it dose or the bounes it gives is not dose any one know the answer to this if so let me know

If you need a demonstration, watch this cute little girl demonstrate it on YouTube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD9ynQLLZTE)

Or you can play with this interactive block and tackle simulator. (http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/pulleysystem.htm)

And as always, wikipedia has more information than you ever wanted. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle)

I couldn't find anything online about which part is the tackle and which part is the block.
CryoSilver
06-14-07, 08:29 PM The rope is the tackle.
InkBlot
06-15-07, 01:25 AM So then the blocks are the wheeled bits? Thanks.
ScipioX
06-15-07, 04:03 AM There's also gonna be a max lift limit based on the tensile strength of your rope. No idea what that would be for typical medieval hemp rope, but probably not very high.
CryoSilver
06-15-07, 06:00 AM There's also gonna be a max lift limit based on the tensile strength of your rope. No idea what that would be for typical medieval hemp rope, but probably not very high.

Couple hundred pounds
Waterhammer
06-16-07, 12:42 AM As has been said: The tackle is the rope, and the block is the pulley. The reason it is called a block; is that the early ones were carved from blocks of wood.

One pulley will double your lifting power, at no loss of time. A second pulley, I believe, will also double the load lift-able, but the law of diminishing returns begins to take hold after that.
Friction.
Also as has been stated the strength of material comes into play.
I believe that the idea that the block, and tackle would take longer comes from the fact, that the ancients used gears to increase the lifting power. With gears it does indeed take longer. And the power increase is greater.

Personal, real life experience: A single, or double block, tackle does not increase lifting time.
tarkin
06-16-07, 03:16 PM When you say the second pulley will double it also, that would only be correct if you are using d20 multiplication.

That is, 1 pulley = double, 2 pulleys = triple, 3 pulley = quadruple, etc.

My personal experience:

All pulleys increase lifting time, but often the time to lift is so small that you don't notice it.

That is, people don't notice the fact that it takes 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds to lift something with a pulley, particularly when you have just spent 5 minutes setting up a pulley system.

It is fairly obvious that you have to pull the rope twice as far, which means (assuming fiarly constant pulling speed) it will obviously take you twice as long.
Waterhammer
06-17-07, 06:02 PM Setting up the block, and tackle could take awhile. I'll concede that. However, if you are lifting an item say, 10 feet when you pull 10' of rope your item will have risen 10'. Even though your overall rope length is 20'. This assumes a single pulley. Maybe a multi pulley system does increase time, hard to say. Things that you would use one for, are generally too heavy to lift by hand at all.
CryoSilver
06-17-07, 06:14 PM A single pulley does not increase your lifting power; it just changes the direction of force. A fixed pulley and a moveable one doubles. Each loop after that multiplies by another factor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dark Prince Illazar 06-13-07, 10:51 AM	Ok i have always heard block and tackle to be a pully systeam. it is listed in the PHB but what it dose or the bounes it gives is not dose any one know the answer to this if so let me know
tarkin 06-13-07, 11:18 AM	A Block and Tackle is a device for enhancing strength when pulling two items together. It requires rope. Typically it is used to lift something up, in combination with some kind of crane/crane like device, but it can also be used to drag. Effectively it multiples your strength by taking more time. The amount of strength multiplication depends on the block design and the amount of rope. The simplest version would simply double your effective strength and double the amount of time to lift the item. This would take 51+ ft of rope to move something upto 25 ft. If you wanted to triple your effective strength you would need 76 ft of rope (and an appropriate block/tackle system designed for tripling) You can always use a higher set up for a lower ammount, simply by ignoring some of the pulleys. I.E.. If you have a tripler system, you can choose to only double the strength, saving you time and rope, but making you more tired. -------------------------- In a primitive society/non-scientific, I would assume a non-masterwork system would probably max out at at 4. That would be 4 pulleys It would take 41 ft of rope to move an object 10 ft, effectively multiplying the max lift you have by x4. A masterwork version might get as high as 8 pulleys. It would take 81 ft of rope to move an object 10 ft, effectively multiplying your strength x 8.
CryoSilver 06-13-07, 03:18 PM	What he said. But one note: I almost never see pulleys that multiply by more than 3, and only one in my whole life that multiplied by 5. That one was used to hoist large beams for the reconstruction of a ship. I would require (as DM) a DC 10 Use Rope check to properly use a block and tackle; they're pretty easy to jam or tangle up if you don't set them up right.
tarkin 06-13-07, 04:08 PM	I bow to Cryosilver's numbers. Non-masterwork: 3 pulleys (x3 strength, x3 time, x3 rope required) Masterwork: 5 pulleys (x5 strength, x5 time, x5 rope required)
dengarbountyhunter 06-14-07, 01:29 PM	Don't you have to fix the system to something? For example, fix the pulleys to a stone wall with pitons to haul your loot over a cliff?
jaelis 06-14-07, 01:34 PM	Also, it should really multiply the amount you can lift, not your strength itself. For instance, a Str 10 character could normally lift 100 lbs. With a x3 pulley, he could lift 300 lbs. That's what a Str 18 character can do unaided.
dengarbountyhunter 06-14-07, 02:02 PM	You're right about that.
InkBlot 06-14-07, 05:53 PM	Ok i have always heard block and tackle to be a pully systeam. it is listed in the PHB but what it dose or the bounes it gives is not dose any one know the answer to this if so let me know If you need a demonstration, watch this cute little girl demonstrate it on YouTube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD9ynQLLZTE) Or you can play with this interactive block and tackle simulator. (http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/pulleysystem.htm) And as always, wikipedia has more information than you ever wanted. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle) I couldn't find anything online about which part is the tackle and which part is the block.
CryoSilver 06-14-07, 08:29 PM	The rope is the tackle.
InkBlot 06-15-07, 01:25 AM	So then the blocks are the wheeled bits? Thanks.
ScipioX 06-15-07, 04:03 AM	There's also gonna be a max lift limit based on the tensile strength of your rope. No idea what that would be for typical medieval hemp rope, but probably not very high.
CryoSilver 06-15-07, 06:00 AM	There's also gonna be a max lift limit based on the tensile strength of your rope. No idea what that would be for typical medieval hemp rope, but probably not very high. Couple hundred pounds
Waterhammer 06-16-07, 12:42 AM	As has been said: The tackle is the rope, and the block is the pulley. The reason it is called a block; is that the early ones were carved from blocks of wood. One pulley will double your lifting power, at no loss of time. A second pulley, I believe, will also double the load lift-able, but the law of diminishing returns begins to take hold after that. Friction. Also as has been stated the strength of material comes into play. I believe that the idea that the block, and tackle would take longer comes from the fact, that the ancients used gears to increase the lifting power. With gears it does indeed take longer. And the power increase is greater. Personal, real life experience: A single, or double block, tackle does not increase lifting time.
tarkin 06-16-07, 03:16 PM	When you say the second pulley will double it also, that would only be correct if you are using d20 multiplication. That is, 1 pulley = double, 2 pulleys = triple, 3 pulley = quadruple, etc. My personal experience: All pulleys increase lifting time, but often the time to lift is so small that you don't notice it. That is, people don't notice the fact that it takes 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds to lift something with a pulley, particularly when you have just spent 5 minutes setting up a pulley system. It is fairly obvious that you have to pull the rope twice as far, which means (assuming fiarly constant pulling speed) it will obviously take you twice as long.
Waterhammer 06-17-07, 06:02 PM	Setting up the block, and tackle could take awhile. I'll concede that. However, if you are lifting an item say, 10 feet when you pull 10' of rope your item will have risen 10'. Even though your overall rope length is 20'. This assumes a single pulley. Maybe a multi pulley system does increase time, hard to say. Things that you would use one for, are generally too heavy to lift by hand at all.
CryoSilver 06-17-07, 06:14 PM	A single pulley does not increase your lifting power; it just changes the direction of force. A fixed pulley and a moveable one doubles. Each loop after that multiplies by another factor.