Bluffing to provoke an AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bluffing to provoke an AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kimokeo
08-04-06, 02:23 PM I like to play wizards and sometimes someone is too close to you (bummer) and I find myself having to either cast defensively and hope to make my roll or take the AoO and take the risk of damage and losing the spell.

For this discussion, consider that I want to cast Burning Hands and my two buddies are flanking him on each side. If I back up, the cone will hurt my friends so I need to stay in front of the opponent.

The Bluff skill states it usually takes a round action. When feinting, this costs a standard action, unless you have the Improved Feint feat - a move action instead.

I want to bluff the opponent, typically a fighter/rogue/monk, to attack me using his AoO. I want to bluff him to strike by waving my arms in the air and saying garbled words. I'm hoping to fool him into thinking I'm casting a spell - which I plan on doing.

If he hits me, he doesn't disrupt a spell since I didn't even start one yet.

Is this bluff a move action or standard action? As a DM, I could see this as a feint and make it a standard action. That would make this tactic worthless except in drawing the AoO and not losing any spell. But, if it was a move action, then that's great because I get to use my spell during my standard action without fear of losing the spell (unless he had more than one AoO). I don't think this bluff would be a full round action.

If you think this is a standard action, would improved feint make it a move action?
Dragonteuthis
08-04-06, 02:40 PM The easier way is to simply move out of one of his threatened squares. Since you've (presumably) got at LEAST 20 feet of movement, you could back up, take the AoO, then move back in.

Note that Combat Reflexes will foil either of these plans.

if you want to proceed with your Bluff mechanic, there are no rules for it, but as a DM I would not have a problem treating it like a feint.
ShinAkuma2
08-04-06, 03:12 PM "Oh dear, I seem to have dropped my spectacles."

*move action to pick up "item", provokes AoO*

"Thanks. Burning Hands, sucka."

No need to create a new mechanic when one already exists. If you feel the need to Bluff, it'll be a Standard action, but most creatures wouldn't see a good reason to ignore an AoO in the first place.
Inigo Carmine
08-04-06, 03:44 PM The easier way is to simply move out of one of his threatened squares. Since you've (presumably) got at LEAST 20 feet of movement, you could back up, take the AoO, then move back in.

This is probably the easiest way to go about it, and doesn't really require any amount of bluffing. You are moving. If you have feats to burn and plan on using this tactic a lot, think about picking up Mobility.

I recomend against this though. If burning hands is the best spell you can come up with and you don't have enough ranks in concentration to cast defensively, chances are you're at a low enough level where that AoO is going to hit you, and you are going to be dropped into negative HP before you ever get the spell off.

A better tactic would be to coordinate with said allies and get one of them to provoke the AoO in a meaningful manner, like the fighter trying to grapple the enemy. If the fighter loses (or gets hit) you can burning hands the enemy, if the fighter successfully grapples, the rogue is going to skewer the enemy. And you can kick him just so you have the possibility of one day telling everyone you kicked some guy to death without using any magic.
Tony Vargas
08-04-06, 03:50 PM Yes, using Bluff that way would be a Standard Action.

You could, of course, provoke an AoO in many other ways that'd be move action (by sheathing a weapon, moving away without withdrawing, and so forth).

If the person threatening you is really hoping to interrupt a spell, though, it might decline certain of those AoOs (it probably /wouldn't/ decline the movement AoO, though, since it's taking you out of his threatened area). The bluff, obviously, would fool him if successful, but also preclude casting a normal spell in the same round.

Another trick that migh work is to move away from him, provoking. He'll probably take the AoO, since he won't be able to take another one once you've moved out of his threat range. If he declines the AoO, continue moving out of his threatened area, and cast some spell other than burning hands (or even Bluff, as a above, that you're casting, just to be a jerk). If he takes the AoO, move to the location you want to cast burning hands from (in his threatened area) and cast (while fervently hoping he doesn't have Combat Reflexes).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kimokeo 08-04-06, 02:23 PM	I like to play wizards and sometimes someone is too close to you (bummer) and I find myself having to either cast defensively and hope to make my roll or take the AoO and take the risk of damage and losing the spell. For this discussion, consider that I want to cast Burning Hands and my two buddies are flanking him on each side. If I back up, the cone will hurt my friends so I need to stay in front of the opponent. The Bluff skill states it usually takes a round action. When feinting, this costs a standard action, unless you have the Improved Feint feat - a move action instead. I want to bluff the opponent, typically a fighter/rogue/monk, to attack me using his AoO. I want to bluff him to strike by waving my arms in the air and saying garbled words. I'm hoping to fool him into thinking I'm casting a spell - which I plan on doing. If he hits me, he doesn't disrupt a spell since I didn't even start one yet. Is this bluff a move action or standard action? As a DM, I could see this as a feint and make it a standard action. That would make this tactic worthless except in drawing the AoO and not losing any spell. But, if it was a move action, then that's great because I get to use my spell during my standard action without fear of losing the spell (unless he had more than one AoO). I don't think this bluff would be a full round action. If you think this is a standard action, would improved feint make it a move action?
Dragonteuthis 08-04-06, 02:40 PM	The easier way is to simply move out of one of his threatened squares. Since you've (presumably) got at LEAST 20 feet of movement, you could back up, take the AoO, then move back in. Note that Combat Reflexes will foil either of these plans. if you want to proceed with your Bluff mechanic, there are no rules for it, but as a DM I would not have a problem treating it like a feint.
ShinAkuma2 08-04-06, 03:12 PM	"Oh dear, I seem to have dropped my spectacles." move action to pick up "item", provokes AoO "Thanks. Burning Hands, sucka." No need to create a new mechanic when one already exists. If you feel the need to Bluff, it'll be a Standard action, but most creatures wouldn't see a good reason to ignore an AoO in the first place.
Inigo Carmine 08-04-06, 03:44 PM	The easier way is to simply move out of one of his threatened squares. Since you've (presumably) got at LEAST 20 feet of movement, you could back up, take the AoO, then move back in. This is probably the easiest way to go about it, and doesn't really require any amount of bluffing. You are moving. If you have feats to burn and plan on using this tactic a lot, think about picking up Mobility. I recomend against this though. If burning hands is the best spell you can come up with and you don't have enough ranks in concentration to cast defensively, chances are you're at a low enough level where that AoO is going to hit you, and you are going to be dropped into negative HP before you ever get the spell off. A better tactic would be to coordinate with said allies and get one of them to provoke the AoO in a meaningful manner, like the fighter trying to grapple the enemy. If the fighter loses (or gets hit) you can burning hands the enemy, if the fighter successfully grapples, the rogue is going to skewer the enemy. And you can kick him just so you have the possibility of one day telling everyone you kicked some guy to death without using any magic.
Tony Vargas 08-04-06, 03:50 PM	Yes, using Bluff that way would be a Standard Action. You could, of course, provoke an AoO in many other ways that'd be move action (by sheathing a weapon, moving away without withdrawing, and so forth). If the person threatening you is really hoping to interrupt a spell, though, it might decline certain of those AoOs (it probably /wouldn't/ decline the movement AoO, though, since it's taking you out of his threatened area). The bluff, obviously, would fool him if successful, but also preclude casting a normal spell in the same round. Another trick that migh work is to move away from him, provoking. He'll probably take the AoO, since he won't be able to take another one once you've moved out of his threat range. If he declines the AoO, continue moving out of his threatened area, and cast some spell other than burning hands (or even Bluff, as a above, that you're casting, just to be a jerk). If he takes the AoO, move to the location you want to cast burning hands from (in his threatened area) and cast (while fervently hoping he doesn't have Combat Reflexes).