Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morotis 03-15-06, 08:09 PM	I think The Boccob's Blessed Book is overpowered. I mean, It's relatively cheap to buy and extremely easy to make! Immagine Joe, Joe is your standard 7th level wizard. At fifth level he took Craft Wonderous Item as his bonus feat. Now, for 500 XP and 6250 GP, and a week of time, he could scribe every spell into his book for free. Anyone have any ideas how to nerf it?
ScipioX 03-15-06, 08:14 PM	I agree that its overpowered, since EVERY wizard will want one. At least every wizard who plans on getting lots of spells. And every wizard wants lots of spells. otherwise they'd be sorcerors :p As a nerf, I'd say just have the blessed book halve the scribing cost. Don'tneed special paper, just special ink now. I'm pretty sure at half, it would still be pretty advantagous economically, but I havne't calc'ed it.
StevenO 03-15-06, 11:07 PM	Given the number of wizard who think they should get to copy/learn lots of extra spells for free and can carry all their spellbooks everywhere they go BBB is not an overpowered item. If the DM keeps that undercontrol then the book is good thing but remember the wizard still has to aquire the spell first.
Evil DM Mk3 03-16-06, 03:09 AM	Do you have any idea how little of the cost involved in learning a spell is based off scribing it in? Most comes from buying the scroll, especially at high levels, and remember that the pages arent free, just cheap. Level 0 25.15gp for the page (or 12.5gp for a page in the blessed book) plus12.5 gp for a scroll. Level 1 25.15gp for the page (or 12.5gp for a page in the blessed book) plus25 gp for a scroll. Level 2 50.3gp for the pages (or 25gp for pages in the blessed book) plus150 gp for a scroll. Level 3 75.45gp for the pages (or 37.5gp for pages in the blessed book) plus375 gp for a scroll. Level 4 100.6gp for the pages (or 50gp for pages in the blessed book) plus700 gp for a scroll. Level 5 125.75gp for the pages (or 62.5gp for pages in the blessed book) plus1125 gp for a scroll. Level 6 150.9gp for the pages (or 75gp for pages in the blessed book) plus1650 gp for a scroll. Level 7 176.05gp for the pages (or 87.5gp for pages in the blessed book) plus2275 gp for a scroll. Level 8 200.2gp for the pages (or 100gp for pages in the blessed book) plus3000 gp for a scroll. Level 9 225.35gp for the pages (or 112.5gp for pages in the blessed book) plus3825 gp for a scroll. And even if they find hte scroll, that is to say, the exact scroll they wanted, it still has an effective cost because they arent selling it or using it. BBB is manily there for convineance, a wizard's standard array of spells by level 20 take up (assuming we just use PHB cantrips, don't specialise, have a starting Int of 16, learn no scroll spells and allways learn the highest level possible). 239(19+8+8+12+16+20+24+28+32+72) pages. More than 2 regular books but less than one BBB. It is deffinately a bargin, saving just over half of the cost of the page, but not a game breaker.
epifreak 03-16-06, 09:49 AM	As I recall, there's some clarification somewhere that says that BBB makes scribing free, not just 1/2 price. Anyway, I disagree. It's certainly an excellent item and something any wizard should have, but assuming you don't make it yourself, it costs 12,500 gold. This is for a magical item with no mechanical benefit, except for when it comes new spell scribing time. For the same price, you could score (bear in mind, I don't have my DMG in front of me at the moment, so I'm going from recall) +4 to any of your stats (possibly to 2 depending on price), +4 or 6 to your saves, flight, etc. I'm hardly saying it's useless; I've created a lvl 8 rogue/wiz going arcane trickster (as any good rogue/wiz should ;) ), and he's got a BBB. In order to get this, though, he had to sacrifice a significant amount of itemage he could have had. Basically, to get the most of the item, you need to get it early, and at early levels, it's extremely costly. At later levels, you've already payed the scribing cost for most of your spells, so it's mostly an item of convenience (so that you don't have to lug around all of those spellbooks).
Puca 03-16-06, 10:10 AM	How many spells do you have to scribe into your book before it becomes profitable? You have to scribe 125 pages/spell-levels before it saves you anything. Thats a lot for a wizard who spends most of his time adventuring. If you got the book at seventh level, and each level added 2 top-tier spells to your book (I know thats a bit low) youd be 17th level before this became an economic advantage.
Evil DM Mk3 03-16-06, 10:32 AM	As I recall, there's some clarification somewhere that says that BBB makes scribing free, not just 1/2 price. I was assuming free. I was also assuming that you would want to factor in the cost of the book. Hence the .15s behind the regular costs. In effect the cost is half but bought in 1000 units... So... THE BOOK IS MEARLY A BARGIN PRICE OFFER ON SCRIBING... wow, I totaly missed that... By the way ScipioX your nerf means the wizard saves 1 sp 5cp a page. Less nerf, more cast iron.
mvincent 03-16-06, 01:44 PM	These rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings) make the book less unbalanced: "Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast." "Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level." So unless a wizard adds additional spells (from outside sources) to his repertoire, he'll actually be losing money from the BBB. And if he does add spells, he still has to deal with: "In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp."
ScipioX 03-16-06, 02:05 PM	Thanks for the handy quotes there mvincent. It costs 12,500 gp for the BBB. So at 100 gp per page, it'll take 130 spell levels before the BBB pays off. That sounds like a lot, but lets break it down. Assuming you use 1/2 max wealth in a given item, a character can only get this at 8th level. Now assume that the PC's fight off an evil wizard BBEG of 10th level, and loot his spellbook. That spell book, assuming the BBEG just has base spells is going to have: 8 1st for 8 pages 4 2nd for 8 pages 4 3rd for 12 pages 4 4th for 16 pages 4 5th. for 20 pages. For a net of 64 pages. So assuming no spell duplication, it would take around two captured spellbooks of mid level wizards to equal the cost of the BBB. While in most games, there would be plenty of duplication of spells, there is also the question of friendy wizards and spell trading which is free if you have a BBB. So in sum, it seems the usefullness of the BBB is directly controlled by how much spell availability the DM allows. In high magic campaigns like forgotten realms, where every city has several high level wizards, it will be pretty easy to trade or purchase lots of extra spells, and the BBB will quickly pay for itself. In low magic settings where wizards are few and far between, the BBB will take longer to pay off.
Iver Gearsham 03-18-06, 08:55 PM	2 levels of Geometer from CA and every spell only needs one page no matter the level. This means you can put every spell from PHB and SC (possably all supliments) into one BBB. Alchemy can lower the cost per page to 33.3 gold if you craft the inks.
DeadlyDM 03-18-06, 09:25 PM	Nonetheless, I've not ever played a d20 D&D campaign in which this item was overly sought after. Maybe it was just us?
Psifon 03-19-06, 01:35 AM	Baccob's blessed book is not a magic item. It is a class ability for wizards. If you "nerf" it you are changing the balance of the game.
Pandaemoni 03-19-06, 03:12 AM	Baccob's blessed book is not a magic item. It is a class ability for wizards. If you "nerf" it you are changing the balance of the game. What? While I agree that that it is the one item that almost always appears in the player wizard's equipment list, I've always suspected that eliminating to nerfing it would be the straw that, upon breaking, finally would balance wizards with sorcerers, as I think the designers intended. At least, it seems to me that part of the balance the designers anticipated was that sorcerers would have substantially greater wealth than wizards. As it stands the Blessed Book reduces the cash differential down to to the point where wizards seem, imo, to plainly have the upper hand. I can't imagine that the game designers planned the class around the assumption that every wizard would get himself such a book. It's a matter of perspective, of course, but I tend to be in the camp that seems wizards (and clerics and druids) as overpowered, rather than sorcerers as underpowered.
ManTimeForgot 03-19-06, 03:59 AM	I can't imagine how any of you think that the designers would presume a large difference in wealth between wizard and sorceror. The only "required" source of wealth expenditure is transcribing scrolls to spell book. A wizard who finds a spellbook as treasure can just master the spell book (DC 25 spellcraft methinks) and be done with it. No need to transcribe it into the other book. Boccob's blessed book is only a "problem" if Geometer is in the mix. And even then I don't think its a major problem. Having only one spell book means the wizard is putting all his eggs in one basket so to speak. That gets stolen and he is in big trouble. Drawmij's Instant Summons anyone? If collegiate wizard is thrown in the mix, then the wizard isn't much inclined to spend any cash on getting new spells (unless there are just a ton of splat books and he's going gonzo for spells). Honestly I usually find I'm spending more on protecting my spellbook than scribing new spells. And Blessed Book doesn't negate the costs associated with trapping, warding, and hiding the spell book (which all reasonable wizards should be doing). If your DM isn't having enemies trying to get ahold of your spellbook, then your DM is not playing the opponents as rational beings. The "weak spot" of wizards is a fairly well known fact. If your group makes any enemies, then sending thieves to steal the book should be a very quickly considered plan of action, since most enemies are going to peg the wizard as a high priority target (especially if it can be done without combat). MTF
Pandaemoni 03-19-06, 05:14 AM	I can't imagine how any of you think that the designers would presume a large difference in wealth between wizard and sorceror. .... Having only one spell book means the wizard is putting all his eggs in one basket so to speak. That gets stolen and he is in big trouble. Drawmij's Instant Summons anyone? Exactly. First, how often does your DM throw spellbooks into treasure piles? I do it on occasion, but my players get their spells largely from scrolls of other friendly wizards, because enemy wizards tend to hide and/or trap their spellbooks. Second though the cost is 100 gp per page. That means a wizard who has transcribed 300 spell levels has to spend 30,000 gold doing it...and 300 is, imo, not at all extreme...assuming he maintains one and only one set of spell books/* and that no one ever steals/sunders it, forcing the wizard to start afresh. Add to that the cost of scribing scrolls (and crafting magic items) (which the designers also contemplated--hence the free scribe scroll feat). -----note---- /* In my campaign I make sure that wizards have to account for their spellbooks in inventory (which I understand not every DM does). Because the tomes can be weighty for a low-strength wizard to carry (especially once they run to multiple volumes, which they invariably do at mid-high levels) a few players have used "traveling spellbooks" that only have their most frequuently used spells in them, relying on their cache of scrolls for the more infrequently used spells. -------------- That money adds up. The point is that if that expenditure were insignificant, then Psifon would have no cause to say that Blessed Books are akin to "class abilities for wizards". The expense is the reason the books are "must have" items for so many players rather than merely "kind of nice".
mvincent 03-19-06, 12:06 PM	I can't imagine how any of you think that the designers would presume a large difference in wealth between wizard and sorceror.I had assumed the designers put the high costs in for balance purposes. They would have certainly play tested enough to notice that the expenditures can add up greatly. If your DM isn't having enemies trying to get ahold of your spellbook, then your DM is not playing the opponents as rational beings. While I enjoy dirty tricks as a DM, my villians would be unlikely to try this. The mage will still have all his prepped spells, making the inevitable battle just as dangerous. He will also have every incentive to hunt the thief down and play as nasty as possible. Additionally, if it's a blessed book that is stolen, the wizard should still have his original spellbook (with many of his main spells inscribed within it for free), plus any other back-up spell books he's prepared or captured. Better to capture some other piece of gear (like the fighter's sword)... at least that could be used by the villian (or, having him use up the wizard's staff in the ensuing battle could be especially entertaining).
Vaelan 03-19-06, 07:09 PM	IWhile I enjoy dirty tricks as a DM, my villians would be unlikely to try this. The mage will still have all his prepped spells, making the inevitable battle just as dangerous. What kind of idiot would steal a spellbook then immediately engage the group in combat? Anybody smart enough to be classified as a villain would be smart enough to make the Wizard use up prepared spells first. Additionally, if it's a blessed book that is stolen, the wizard should still have his original spellbook (with many of his main spells inscribed within it for free), plus any other back-up spell books he's prepared or captured. Then steal those too?
ManTimeForgot 03-19-06, 07:37 PM	The point is the major cost for a spell book is NOT the scribing costs. Most wizards I've seen played don't scribe that many spell levels (remember ones gained at level up don't have a cost), and the ones that I play where I want a plethora of spells I will usually opt for collegiate wizard if possible, and if not the reduction in price for boccob's blessed book helps (but it by no means eliminates the cost). Point being the major cost for a spell book is the cost of protecting it. By the time you get Instant Summons the enemies should be able to prevent that spell from functioning. A wizard probably spends 30k on protecting his spell book. And boccob's blessed book has nothing to do with that expenditure. And if you aren't spending 30k on protecting your book, then ask yourself why hasn't your book been stolen/burned/teleported into an abyss, etc. Villains worth their namesake don't play fair. MTF
Ynvaar 03-19-06, 08:02 PM	30k to Protect a spell book :confused: Fair enough -look after your spellbook... but 30k? You must be getting some serious booty to be in a position to spend that much protecting a tome (or be really paranoid). Ironically you could buy 2 BBBs at full price and make a couple of copies of your spellbook and still have 5000gp left over to protect them. How on earth do you spend 30k protecting one? Anyhoo- I love the Blessed book. The biggest advantage a wizard has over a Sorcerer is versatility. If you aren't adding spells to your book (either with a BBB or not), you probably aren't getting the most from the class IMHO.
mvincent 03-20-06, 12:00 AM	What kind of idiot would steal a spellbook then immediately engage the group in combat? Anybody smart enough to be classified as a villain would be smart enough to... figure out that an angry wizard will waste no time in mounting a scry-and-fry mission (spending as much on NPC spellcasting services as needed). Even if the DM takes efforts to somehow prevent this, the wizard PC would still simply obtain another method for memorizing spells (if he didn't have one already). The scenario seems more like a DM set-up than a logical tactic. As a DM, I just can't see a villain thinking this was the best/easiest course of action. As a player, I can't see this debilitating me so much as annoying me (i.e. causing me to use up time and money).
Vaelan 03-20-06, 02:41 AM	As a player, I can't see this debilitating me so much as annoying me (i.e. causing me to use up time and money). And what taking the time and spending the money to replace your spellbook simply isn't an option? Time-sensitive plans aren't entirely unheard of in the genre.
Seeker of Undeath 03-20-06, 04:57 AM	You know, I've heard of a lot of things getting called overpowered, but Boccob's Blessed Book is not one of them. The item itself is just a book with 1000 pages, if I remember correctly. I admit that's a lot of pages. It might have some minor preservative features too, but it's otherwise almost mundane (I do say almost). My question is...what does it matter? I like my players' Wizards to use only one book. That's fewer targets! Sure it gets a little insane with Geometer and Collegiate Wizard, but one more time that just multiplies the Wizard's options. It doesn't give them more spells per day, unless they put these new lovelies into magic items which themselves will require gold, XP, and TIME. Many people don't care about any of that. I certainly do. I'll tell you this: I don't wait around very long for the party Wizard to craft anything unless my character can see the direct benefit coming. "You wanna make Gauntlets of Ogre Strength? Why?! Our Barbarian's strong enough already! He even smells like an Ogre," cries Avery Tosscobble. But let's tone it back a bit. What's wrong with the book? I can't find anything. What's wrong with the things it enables? Nothing I can see. After all it means I only need one identical book to swap it with instead of 3-5. BTW Wizards hate it when they go to look at their notes in the morning and find them written in a language they don't know. ;)
mvincent 03-20-06, 11:55 AM	And what taking the time and spending the money to replace your spellbook simply isn't an option? Time-sensitive plans aren't entirely unheard of in the genre.While I might see a fighter continuing to play without his favorite sword (he'd be pretty bitter about it though), a wizard without spells would more likely say "go on without me, I'm useless to you now", and then the player would likely ask to run a different character, or simply pack his books and go home. Plus, wizards often have the power to resist such machinations in the first place (having access to scry, locate object, teleport, secret chest, etc.) I'm not saying every wizard is like this (your tactic might actually work and be enjoyable to some), but as a DM I've considered the scenario before and discarded it. As a player, I took minimal precautions against this, but it was enough to convince me that the villain would have had an easier time simply coup de gracing me in my sleep.
ManTimeForgot 03-20-06, 08:24 PM	Ever been in a crowd before? Ever had a major event distract your attention? Ever heard of ranged legerdemain? You can get your spellbook stolen during the day without your knowledge fairly easily, unless you spend gobs of cash on protecting it. And maybe buying two separate spellbooks is more cost efficient for me but it also means that the enemy now has an exact duplicate of my spell book. And that is NOT an advantage I want to give the enemy. He now knows every spell I can cast. He now has access to any spells I researched/invented. He can infer what tactics I will be using to try to retrieve my spellbook since he knows exactly what spells I have at my disposal to do so. I have no interest in letting anyone get near my spell book. And my 30k seems a bit much. But I've got multiple traps on my book. It's waterproof, heatproof, weatherproof, and warded against touch by unauthorized persons. It's got illusionary pages protecting most if not all of its content. And I will always have an Instant Summons tied to it. It will be warded specifically against teleport object. Since this is my main tome (my travelers tome with useful adventuring spells is all I ever carry with me at high levels) I will be keeping it at my base of operations (wizard tower) in an area warded by improved alarm, private sanctum, and has a glamer causing the area to look like a dead end. Getting my main tome is what prevents me from making items or performing esoteric tasks like binding outsiders. I'm not going to let a villain get my hands on that kind of information/power if I can possibly prevent it. MTF
Silverthumb128 03-20-06, 09:06 PM	I agree that its overpowered, since EVERY wizard will want one. At least every wizard who plans on getting lots of spells. And every wizard wants lots of spells. +5 weapons are also overpowered since every Fighter will want one. Every Fighter that plans on doing lots of damage, anyways. I don't think BBB is overpowered at all, its just mainly for saving money and a lot of little hassles, like aquiring paper. While you're able to scribe any wizard spell into it, you still have to aquire the spells first. The quickest way to do that without searching for other wizards is to purchase scrolls and scribe(granted, you still have to make the appropriate check). Then the scroll is gone, and you have the spell scribed to your book. All it does is keep you from spending upwards of... well, not much more than 500 gold in paper and writing supplies, and allows you to keep your spells in one book, as opposed to buying a new book each time you fill one up.
Lokiyn 03-21-06, 06:46 PM	Ever been in a crowd before? Ever had a major event distract your attention? Ever heard of ranged legerdemain? You can get your spellbook stolen during the day without your knowledge fairly easily, unless you spend gobs of cash on protecting it. And maybe buying two separate spellbooks is more cost efficient for me but it also means that the enemy now has an exact duplicate of my spell book. And that is NOT an advantage I want to give the enemy. He now knows every spell I can cast. He now has access to any spells I researched/invented. He can infer what tactics I will be using to try to retrieve my spellbook since he knows exactly what spells I have at my disposal to do so. I have no interest in letting anyone get near my spell book. And my 30k seems a bit much. But I've got multiple traps on my book. It's waterproof, heatproof, weatherproof, and warded against touch by unauthorized persons. It's got illusionary pages protecting most if not all of its content. And I will always have an Instant Summons tied to it. It will be warded specifically against teleport object. Since this is my main tome (my travelers tome with useful adventuring spells is all I ever carry with me at high levels) I will be keeping it at my base of operations (wizard tower) in an area warded by improved alarm, private sanctum, and has a glamer causing the area to look like a dead end. Getting my main tome is what prevents me from making items or performing esoteric tasks like binding outsiders. I'm not going to let a villain get my hands on that kind of information/power if I can possibly prevent it. MTF you do realize that its easy to hide your spell book if you are willing to work with it. Simply place your spellbook into a fine silk glove of storing, Carefully roll up and stuff the slim silk glove into an alchemist capsule. Tuck it in the back of your mouth and scoff at the concept of a stolen spellbook.
mvincent 03-21-06, 07:25 PM	you do realize that its easy to hide your spell book if you are willing to work with it. Simply place your spellbook into a fine silk glove of storing, Carefully roll up and stuff the slim silk glove into an alchemist capsule. Tuck it in the back of your mouth and scoff at the concept of a stolen spellbook.A more common method is for a wizard to put his spellbook (or his spare spellbook) into a Leomond's secret chest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm). I recommend swallowing the tiny replica chest each day (using prestidigitation to clean it beforehand), in case you get taken prisoner. Another advantage of BBB is that you basically get a free (if incomplete) backup spellbook. You can put the free spells you get at each level into the your mundane book (that you've previously been using), then copy them into the BBB. Also, there is also nothing wrong with two wizards sharing a BBB (to save on costs). Plus, reading someone else's spells is fairly easy.
Iver Gearsham 03-21-06, 08:01 PM	OH no! someone stole my spellbook! Good thing I took Eshew Matierials and Spell Mastery as feats so I have the basics to build a plan to get it back or earn money to replace it wost case. Reading that book should be a nightmare of Septa Snake Sigils, Fire Traps, Secret Pages, Nystrul's Magic Auras, Explosive Runes, Signs of Sealing and the Greater version And any Special spells you make for the purpose. If you have thought of the Erase spell to by pass that you might want to consider some smart mage may have made an Arcane Scribe spell to write with Arcane Mark like writing and you just turned the book Blank. Then there is the possability that the mage has exact duplicate Booby Book to sucker would be thieves in to grabing it and getting Cursed Item effects.
DiamondShade0 03-21-06, 09:04 PM	Then there is the possability that the mage has exact duplicate Booby Book to sucker would be thieves in to grabing it and getting Cursed Item effects.Like the thief eating one?
Kyuketsukiouji 03-21-06, 09:45 PM	you do realize that its easy to hide your spell book if you are willing to work with it. Simply place your spellbook into a fine silk glove of storing, Carefully roll up and stuff the slim silk glove into an alchemist capsule. Tuck it in the back of your mouth and scoff at the concept of a stolen spellbook. Dispel Magic. Want some salt with that spellbook?
ManTimeForgot 03-21-06, 11:20 PM	Disjoined... Spellbook blows up in the mouth, or gets digested in the tummy after some indigestion. Either way I, as the player get sick, and my character gets sick too. Basically its just sick. I'm going to throw up because my character's entire career's worth of spells just got destroyed by a single casting of a spell, and my character is going to throw up because a single spell just destroyed his entire career's worth of spells. And yeah the main spell book should just be a plethora of sigil spells and stuff. Most of this stuff is going to cost money. Symbols don't get scribed for free... And no wizard ever won by sigils alone (though it certainly helps to have them). MTF
Bandit_Raist 03-21-06, 11:22 PM	All I can say is shut up. If it were up to you guys every magic item would end up stuck in a endless drift of mechanics and checks and balances. Whaaaaa!! the longsword is too powerful it doesn't balance with a whetstone. Whaaaa wizards casting spells makes it unbalanced compared to the fighter. well you know what... just leave somethings alone before you mess up my love for this one single item. As a DM if you think it is broken don't let them exist, if your a player... don't get one. Sorry... Not trying to offend anyone.
Lokiyn 03-22-06, 12:26 AM	Disjoined... Spellbook blows up in the mouth, or gets digested in the tummy after some indigestion. Either way I, as the player get sick, and my character gets sick too. Basically its just sick. I'm going to throw up because my character's entire career's worth of spells just got destroyed by a single casting of a spell, and my character is going to throw up because a single spell just destroyed his entire career's worth of spells. And yeah the main spell book should just be a plethora of sigil spells and stuff. Most of this stuff is going to cost money. Symbols don't get scribed for free... And no wizard ever won by sigils alone (though it certainly helps to have them). MTF Which is whets so delightful about it, A shrunken item can only expand to fit its surroundings (unless it can make a successful strength check to break into a larger), in this case the alchemical capsule, so it remains shrunk, and now you have to enlarge your book or shrink yourself to read it. Assuming the book explodes is asinine, Assuming you swallow the book without putting it in a container that is "food proof" is asinine, Assuming that even if the book expands it will go down the constricted throat that its to large for and not out the mouth which is the much larger hole is equally asinine. And if you think that’s a problem think again, since the default world in dnd is oerth that means we have Baccob friend to all wizards. Baccob lets anyone with the true believer feat and nine hit dice use his wonderful Tome of Ancient Knowledge a wonderful item that has a wonderful 90% chance of having any arcane spell you look for inside. Hurrah!, oh and if you couldn't find it, it resets the next day giving you more chances to find it. Double Hurrah!. I'll worship that for a dollar Combine this with Baccob's blessed book/Baccob’s Tome of Ancient Lore/ and the not related to Baccob Geometer prestige class and we have 1000 pages of 1000 spells for a low low price of only 34,500 gp, A feat, and a worthless allegiance to an uncaring true neutral god. Hurrah! Spells for everybody! I keep my Books in my kimono of Storing (OA) I figure if the rogue is good enough to steal my man-dress and the spells tattooed on my skin then he deserves them more than i do. Muwhahah and i keep my tome of ancient knowledge in a Gove of storing, that is in my spare kimono of storing that is in my folding boat, that is in my other glove of storing that is in my portable hole that is baked inside a brick in my garden holding up my petunias, (next to my whale of course). And for more fun i keep in the other hand a 20 pound gunpowder/smokepowder lit bomb that i can summon as a free action in response to death. Muwahahaha :evillaugh
ManTimeForgot 03-22-06, 07:00 AM	Alright cool. Didn't know they had rules for that kind of expansion. Assuming you put a container in your mouth which is too big to swallow, then would you mind explaining to me just how you are pronouncing the verbal components to your spells? And I'm sorry to break this to you but having been in several fights before, including a couple times with food in my mouth, I know for a fact that involuntary reflex is to purge whatever is in your mouth so that you can have unrestricted breathing. Essentially this guy gets even remotely nervous you can say hello to concentration check to avoid swallowing your little pill (which is what I'm assuming this is because otherwise I don't see how you can speak correctly). You will notice that I am well aware of the Geometer connection, but this all said you are making my point. You are spending thousands of GP upon hiding your spellbook in all kinds of weird ways. You hide your spellbook through all kinds of vagueries and superimposed locations. I hide mine in an airtight box in the middle of nowhere with a zillion spells on it. Virtually same end result, and still has muchas cost. Point being BBB doesn't save you that much money in the long term. The wizard player is going to be spending muchas cash on protecting his baby, and unless BBB starts coming with anti-theft protection built in, then nothing is going to cause this cost to go down. MTF
Iver Gearsham 03-22-06, 05:33 PM	Disjunction is a Will save to resist That's like threatening a Rogue with a Fireball whoopee! The cost to do the spell protections for a Geometer is 25 gp. worth of Ink per level of the protection spell. Compared to an average mages costs that is a good amount of savings. Another simple way to protect your spellbook is to keep it completely mundane Just alchemically treated to resist wear, fire and water. Then using the skill Decipher Script you hide your spells in the a treatise on a subject like crickets or Bog weeds of the central Continent and bore to tears anyone who thinks to read it. If I had my spell book in my back pack and a Rogue tryed to slip in as a Standard action to Pick Pocket/Sight of Hand, Ranged Legerdemain he would get hit with Glyph of Warding Greater and that should tip me off that someone is trying to steal from me. Then said rogue would have to be lucky and going to the correct compartment in the first place to have a chance at it. Many people on the boards say just Sunder a mages book in combat they are so wrong it is laughable as you don't need to have it out to cast spells. only if you were captured is there a hope of that. Then dumb putzes gets hit with all its protections.
Gnarl 03-22-06, 06:27 PM	I don't think the blessed book is overpowered. Unlike what the original poster said, 12,000 gold pieces is a lot of money. It's 1/3 of the total resources of a 9th level character, 1/10 of the resources of a 13rd level character, and it becomes marginal after that. Even if you create the book yourself, it's 480 xp and 6,000 gold pieces. As a DM, I would be a lot more concerned about my players making something more useful with the money. You don't get every spell for free either. You still need to get your hands on a copy of the spell. To finish, who cares if a wizard can get all those spells in a spellbook. He still will be using the same 2 spells. In some very specific situations, he'll be happy to have the extra spells, but after all, he did pay 12,000 gold pieces for them (and probably could have done the same cheaper buying the spells when needed).