Bolts for Multiple Crossbows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bolts for Multiple Crossbows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheBlackPaladin
07-21-07, 03:15 PM For anyone who has seen any of my posts in the last two weeks, you know that I am currently creating a sniper. My main weapon that packs the greatest punch is the Great Crossbow (RoS), but it takes a full-round action to reload. The solution to this is to carry multiple loaded Great Crossbows on my back. This is where my first thought went, but then I started thinking further on this. Although I will have one Great Crossbow with pretty good magic inhancements, a lot of my money will go to magic bolts. Now...Here is the question...Could I use the same bolts with different types of crossbows?
AAB
07-21-07, 03:23 PM As far as I know, all crossbow bolts are the same. So yes you could use them for multiple crossbows. Be sure that you don't spend TOO much money on bolts, though, since they're destroyed when fired.

My suggestion for a crossbow sniper character would be a rogue with the crossbow sniper feat (gasp!) from... oh, darn. Was it PHBII or Complete Adventurer? Oh well. One of those.
FrotzMe
07-21-07, 04:49 PM The solution to this is to carry multiple loaded Great Crossbows on my back.

Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner.

Could I use the same bolts with different types of crossbows?

No (or not well). In a nutshell, bolts and strings get thicker as the strength of the crossbow increases. You'd have a hard time nocking an over/undersized bolt because:

a) the width of the groove in the nut would not be wide enough to get an oversized bolt into

b) the thickness of the string would not fit the nock on the bolt

b) the latitude at which the string is held by the nut would not match the nock on the bolt as it sits in the track

Any attempt to fire a miss sized bolt would result in a high probability of misfire (and an elevated chance of catastrophic failure); any successfully launched bolt would have decreased power, range, and accuracy.
unfortunate_crow
07-21-07, 04:54 PM I would have a problem with this just from RL experience of trying to carry multiple rifles on my back...
TheBlackPaladin
07-21-07, 05:19 PM Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner.

This is a good point that I forgot to address, though I had given thought to it. There was a weapon printed in Song and Silence called the Covered Hand Crossbow. The cost was 125gp (only 25gp over the Hand Crossbow). How would you change this up for the other crossbows? The concept of having covered crossbows of all types makes sense for the exact purpose that I have posed and you have found problem by. As for the rest of your responce, although you're knowledge of crossbow mechanics is very appreciated, I would rather be looking at game rules in this situation. Thank you though.
AAB
07-21-07, 05:48 PM Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner.

Wouldn't a crossbow as large as a great crossbow be able to have a decently strong "spring" to hold the bolt in? I'm not familiar with the term "tang" as it pertains to crossbows; is this what you're talking about?
Thor_Dog_of_Thunder
07-21-07, 06:15 PM There is an enchant in MIC that lets any xbow hold 50/100 bolts and only take a free action to load. Your GM may rule that you need to take a standard / move action to load the great xbow even with this but rapid reload should cut the total time down to a free action.
Rolof
07-21-07, 06:50 PM By the RAW, crossbow bolts and arrows are all the same, the damage die and other stats of projectile weapons are listed as an entry with the weapon, not the ammo. The ammo entry just gets a - all the way across, except for the weight and price.

Whether this is intentional, or an error of oversight is debatable, especially if your group and/or especially your DM have played since second edition, because in second edition, the exact opposite was true; the weapons had a blank entry, and the ammo had the damage listed.

As to carrying multiple crossbows, I don't think it'd work. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall a magical weapon property, or perhaps just a mundane add-on, that allows crossbows to be carried, climbed with, etc, without the bolt falling out, but as another poster mentioned, they would have a tendency to do so without any kind of restraint to prevent it. In order for it to work, you'd have to constantly carry them level with the ground, if you were to carry one at 'port arms' position, or slung over the shoulder, the bolt would drop out.

You could always just keep in mind that your character's main goal in life is to get a crossbow with the quick-loading property, which I believe would pretty well solve your problems.

Edited to add: TheBlackPaladin beat me to it, didn't notice before; the covered crossbow was the thing I was trying to remember.
unfortunate_crow
07-21-07, 06:56 PM Use the Repeating Crossbow.
TheBlackPaladin
07-21-07, 07:07 PM Use the Repeating Crossbow.

This sniper character has levels in both Scout and Rogue. To use both skirmish and sneak attack, I have to use the Deadeye Shot feat (PHBII). This means that I can only make one attack in a round. Repeating Crossbow is of no use to me. Instead of trying to get multiple shots, I make my one shot count.
FrotzMe
07-21-07, 07:18 PM I would have a problem with this just from RL experience of trying to carry multiple rifles on my back...

heh - oh, I hear you there. But in game, we do some pretty incredulous things.

Covered Hand Crossbow...How would you change this up for the other crossbows?

I'm not familiar with the concept used for the Covered Hand Crossbow. However, I suppose you could use a leather strap tied around the stock that holds the bolt in place. Removing the strap (perhaps by pulling a slip knot) might be a free action. You'd also have to employ something to prevent the trigger from firing. Removing that would likely not be a free action, though. Even with these precautions, I'd still be wary of carrying several (or even one) crossbows on your back in the charged (ie strings pulled back) condition.

I would rather be looking at game rules in this situation.

The game rules as such do not directly address this. The table on page 116-7 of the PHB, however, does list the ammunition for each weapon separately; this could indicate that they are for game purposes (for the reasons I've listed) separate types*; Rolof has offered a different interpretation of the table. Feel free to argue either side with your DM, as the interpretation of the rules in this instance is between the two of you. What I'm telling you is the reasoning I would give you (were I your DM) for not allowing it (ie cuz it don't work IRL).

*Note that the ammunition for bows is also listed separately. This is consistent, but less imperative. Bows of different size require different length arrow shafts to be used optimally; it is less stringent than crossbow ammunition, though.

I'm not familiar with the term "tang" as it pertains to crossbows; is this what you're talking about?

Yes. When you put a bolt in the track on the top of the stock, there is a tang (which is a lightweight leaf spring) that holds it in place. Without the tang, the bolt would fall out with almost no effort with even minimal movement of the crossbow. This tang is part of any crossbow, not just the big ones. It can't be too tight, or it would interfere with both loading and firing. So the tang by itself wouldn't prevent the bolt from falling out if the crossbow is jostled about and/or suspended in an un-level position for long.
unfortunate_crow
07-22-07, 01:03 AM This sniper character has levels in both Scout and Rogue. To use both skirmish and sneak attack, I have to use the Deadeye Shot feat (PHBII). This means that I can only make one attack in a round. Repeating Crossbow is of no use to me. Instead of trying to get multiple shots, I make my one shot count.

Dude, I understand that. What you want though, is the magazine that holds the bolts in the weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheBlackPaladin 07-21-07, 03:15 PM	For anyone who has seen any of my posts in the last two weeks, you know that I am currently creating a sniper. My main weapon that packs the greatest punch is the Great Crossbow (RoS), but it takes a full-round action to reload. The solution to this is to carry multiple loaded Great Crossbows on my back. This is where my first thought went, but then I started thinking further on this. Although I will have one Great Crossbow with pretty good magic inhancements, a lot of my money will go to magic bolts. Now...Here is the question...Could I use the same bolts with different types of crossbows?
AAB 07-21-07, 03:23 PM	As far as I know, all crossbow bolts are the same. So yes you could use them for multiple crossbows. Be sure that you don't spend TOO much money on bolts, though, since they're destroyed when fired. My suggestion for a crossbow sniper character would be a rogue with the crossbow sniper feat (gasp!) from... oh, darn. Was it PHBII or Complete Adventurer? Oh well. One of those.
FrotzMe 07-21-07, 04:49 PM	The solution to this is to carry multiple loaded Great Crossbows on my back. Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner. Could I use the same bolts with different types of crossbows? No (or not well). In a nutshell, bolts and strings get thicker as the strength of the crossbow increases. You'd have a hard time nocking an over/undersized bolt because: a) the width of the groove in the nut would not be wide enough to get an oversized bolt into b) the thickness of the string would not fit the nock on the bolt b) the latitude at which the string is held by the nut would not match the nock on the bolt as it sits in the track Any attempt to fire a miss sized bolt would result in a high probability of misfire (and an elevated chance of catastrophic failure); any successfully launched bolt would have decreased power, range, and accuracy.
unfortunate_crow 07-21-07, 04:54 PM	I would have a problem with this just from RL experience of trying to carry multiple rifles on my back...
TheBlackPaladin 07-21-07, 05:19 PM	Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner. This is a good point that I forgot to address, though I had given thought to it. There was a weapon printed in Song and Silence called the Covered Hand Crossbow. The cost was 125gp (only 25gp over the Hand Crossbow). How would you change this up for the other crossbows? The concept of having covered crossbows of all types makes sense for the exact purpose that I have posed and you have found problem by. As for the rest of your responce, although you're knowledge of crossbow mechanics is very appreciated, I would rather be looking at game rules in this situation. Thank you though.
AAB 07-21-07, 05:48 PM	Might want to check with your DM about this; I'd have a problem it. Crossbow bolts are held into their track with light pressure from a tang. Chances are very good that the bolts would fall off of any crossbow carried in such a manner. Wouldn't a crossbow as large as a great crossbow be able to have a decently strong "spring" to hold the bolt in? I'm not familiar with the term "tang" as it pertains to crossbows; is this what you're talking about?
Thor_Dog_of_Thunder 07-21-07, 06:15 PM	There is an enchant in MIC that lets any xbow hold 50/100 bolts and only take a free action to load. Your GM may rule that you need to take a standard / move action to load the great xbow even with this but rapid reload should cut the total time down to a free action.
Rolof 07-21-07, 06:50 PM	By the RAW, crossbow bolts and arrows are all the same, the damage die and other stats of projectile weapons are listed as an entry with the weapon, not the ammo. The ammo entry just gets a - all the way across, except for the weight and price. Whether this is intentional, or an error of oversight is debatable, especially if your group and/or especially your DM have played since second edition, because in second edition, the exact opposite was true; the weapons had a blank entry, and the ammo had the damage listed. As to carrying multiple crossbows, I don't think it'd work. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall a magical weapon property, or perhaps just a mundane add-on, that allows crossbows to be carried, climbed with, etc, without the bolt falling out, but as another poster mentioned, they would have a tendency to do so without any kind of restraint to prevent it. In order for it to work, you'd have to constantly carry them level with the ground, if you were to carry one at 'port arms' position, or slung over the shoulder, the bolt would drop out. You could always just keep in mind that your character's main goal in life is to get a crossbow with the quick-loading property, which I believe would pretty well solve your problems. Edited to add: TheBlackPaladin beat me to it, didn't notice before; the covered crossbow was the thing I was trying to remember.
unfortunate_crow 07-21-07, 06:56 PM	Use the Repeating Crossbow.
TheBlackPaladin 07-21-07, 07:07 PM	Use the Repeating Crossbow. This sniper character has levels in both Scout and Rogue. To use both skirmish and sneak attack, I have to use the Deadeye Shot feat (PHBII). This means that I can only make one attack in a round. Repeating Crossbow is of no use to me. Instead of trying to get multiple shots, I make my one shot count.
FrotzMe 07-21-07, 07:18 PM	I would have a problem with this just from RL experience of trying to carry multiple rifles on my back... heh - oh, I hear you there. But in game, we do some pretty incredulous things. Covered Hand Crossbow...How would you change this up for the other crossbows? I'm not familiar with the concept used for the Covered Hand Crossbow. However, I suppose you could use a leather strap tied around the stock that holds the bolt in place. Removing the strap (perhaps by pulling a slip knot) might be a free action. You'd also have to employ something to prevent the trigger from firing. Removing that would likely not be a free action, though. Even with these precautions, I'd still be wary of carrying several (or even one) crossbows on your back in the charged (ie strings pulled back) condition. I would rather be looking at game rules in this situation. The game rules as such do not directly address this. The table on page 116-7 of the PHB, however, does list the ammunition for each weapon separately; this could indicate that they are for game purposes (for the reasons I've listed) separate types; Rolof has offered a different interpretation of the table. Feel free to argue either side with your DM, as the interpretation of the rules in this instance is between the two of you. What I'm telling you is the reasoning I would give you (were I your DM) for not allowing it (ie cuz it don't work IRL). Note that the ammunition for bows is also listed separately. This is consistent, but less imperative. Bows of different size require different length arrow shafts to be used optimally; it is less stringent than crossbow ammunition, though. I'm not familiar with the term "tang" as it pertains to crossbows; is this what you're talking about? Yes. When you put a bolt in the track on the top of the stock, there is a tang (which is a lightweight leaf spring) that holds it in place. Without the tang, the bolt would fall out with almost no effort with even minimal movement of the crossbow. This tang is part of any crossbow, not just the big ones. It can't be too tight, or it would interfere with both loading and firing. So the tang by itself wouldn't prevent the bolt from falling out if the crossbow is jostled about and/or suspended in an un-level position for long.
unfortunate_crow 07-22-07, 01:03 AM	This sniper character has levels in both Scout and Rogue. To use both skirmish and sneak attack, I have to use the Deadeye Shot feat (PHBII). This means that I can only make one attack in a round. Repeating Crossbow is of no use to me. Instead of trying to get multiple shots, I make my one shot count. Dude, I understand that. What you want though, is the magazine that holds the bolts in the weapon.