Bonus on disarm with sai? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonus on disarm with sai? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rondulin
09-04-06, 06:13 PM The description of the sai weapon says that it grants a +4 bonus on disarm attempts. However the sai is a light weapon that incurrs a -4 penalty on disarm attempts.

My question is if this penalty is already figured into the +4 bonus of the description (then total of +4 on disarm) or not (then total of +0 on disarm).

As I read it, it should be a +0 total. But the description implies that the sai should be better at disarming than other weapons. Perhaps the designers overlooked the -4 penalty on disarm for being a light weapon? I think otherwise they would have mentioned the penalty to clarify that the sai is not better than other weapon in disarming (apart from other light weapons).
ShinAkuma2
09-04-06, 06:16 PM It's better at disarming than other light weapons.

It's just as good at disarming as your average one-handed weapon, which is why a sai is a pretty good choice for an off-hand weapon.

One would typically parry with a sai (or similar weapon), and strike with whatever blade one had in the main hand.
Rondulin
09-04-06, 06:30 PM It's just as good at disarming as your average one-handed weapon, which is why a sai is a pretty good choice for an off-hand weapon.
Only monks are proficient with the sai. But a monk does not get any bonus from the sai being light (can use flurry anyway). For disarming a monk would be better of using a quarterstaff (+4 for being two-handed).

Other characters must spend a feat on the sai to use it, while they can just use a shortsword which deals even more damage. Of course the shortsword is worse than a sai in disarming, but then you could just use your longsword in your main hand with no disarm penalty.

One would typically parry with a sai (or similar weapon), and strike with whatever blade one had in the main hand.
Are you speaking in game terms?
ShinAkuma2
09-04-06, 08:42 PM Only monks are proficient with the sai. But a monk does not get any bonus from the sai being light (can use flurry anyway). For disarming a monk would be better of using a quarterstaff (+4 for being two-handed).

You can use it as your light off-hand weapon when using Two-Weapon Fighting. You can do this in conjunction with Flurry of Blows if you want.

As for the quarterstaff,

In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability.

If you use it two-handed for disarming, you can't flurry/TWF it. If you flurry/TWF it, you use either end as if they were one-handed (or one-handed and light for TWF), so it's no better than the sai.

Are you speaking in game terms?

No, I'm speaking in "this is why it is the way it is" terms. Real people typically wouldn't use a sai as a weapon of choice. They'd use it as an off-hand weapon in the hopes of catching an opponent's weapon in it.
Rondulin
09-05-06, 04:17 AM Ok, now I see your point. A monk can use the sai in a flurry and take the disarm option without suffering the normal -4 penalty for being unarmed. Just got confused by your statement with the off-hand weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rondulin 09-04-06, 06:13 PM	The description of the sai weapon says that it grants a +4 bonus on disarm attempts. However the sai is a light weapon that incurrs a -4 penalty on disarm attempts. My question is if this penalty is already figured into the +4 bonus of the description (then total of +4 on disarm) or not (then total of +0 on disarm). As I read it, it should be a +0 total. But the description implies that the sai should be better at disarming than other weapons. Perhaps the designers overlooked the -4 penalty on disarm for being a light weapon? I think otherwise they would have mentioned the penalty to clarify that the sai is not better than other weapon in disarming (apart from other light weapons).
ShinAkuma2 09-04-06, 06:16 PM	It's better at disarming than other light weapons. It's just as good at disarming as your average one-handed weapon, which is why a sai is a pretty good choice for an off-hand weapon. One would typically parry with a sai (or similar weapon), and strike with whatever blade one had in the main hand.
Rondulin 09-04-06, 06:30 PM	It's just as good at disarming as your average one-handed weapon, which is why a sai is a pretty good choice for an off-hand weapon. Only monks are proficient with the sai. But a monk does not get any bonus from the sai being light (can use flurry anyway). For disarming a monk would be better of using a quarterstaff (+4 for being two-handed). Other characters must spend a feat on the sai to use it, while they can just use a shortsword which deals even more damage. Of course the shortsword is worse than a sai in disarming, but then you could just use your longsword in your main hand with no disarm penalty. One would typically parry with a sai (or similar weapon), and strike with whatever blade one had in the main hand. Are you speaking in game terms?
ShinAkuma2 09-04-06, 08:42 PM	Only monks are proficient with the sai. But a monk does not get any bonus from the sai being light (can use flurry anyway). For disarming a monk would be better of using a quarterstaff (+4 for being two-handed). You can use it as your light off-hand weapon when using Two-Weapon Fighting. You can do this in conjunction with Flurry of Blows if you want. As for the quarterstaff, In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. If you use it two-handed for disarming, you can't flurry/TWF it. If you flurry/TWF it, you use either end as if they were one-handed (or one-handed and light for TWF), so it's no better than the sai. Are you speaking in game terms? No, I'm speaking in "this is why it is the way it is" terms. Real people typically wouldn't use a sai as a weapon of choice. They'd use it as an off-hand weapon in the hopes of catching an opponent's weapon in it.
Rondulin 09-05-06, 04:17 AM	Ok, now I see your point. A monk can use the sai in a flurry and take the disarm option without suffering the normal -4 penalty for being unarmed. Just got confused by your statement with the off-hand weapon.