Bonus question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonus question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ezekiel (NL)
08-17-06, 02:45 PM When a bonus is described in a spell or magical item, the bonus can ben described in two ways:

a +2 natural armor bonus to AC or

a +2 bonus to natural armor.

The first does not stack with any other armor bonus, but the way I read it, the second will!!
The way I read it it's a bonus to an exsisting natural armor.

Am I right or wrong?
Gold Katana
08-17-06, 02:59 PM :noway:
ShinAkuma2
08-17-06, 03:55 PM One is a Natural Armor bonus. This would add to your AC, but would not stack with an existing Natural Armor bonus.

The other is a bonus to Natural Armor. It simply adds a value to your current Natural Armor, oftentimes even if that value is zero. This is designed to "stack".

As an analogy, adding a +1 enhancement to a suit of armor adds one to the Armor bonus of that suit. It does not, itself, give a "+1 Armor bonus to AC", because then it wouldn't stack, and that'd be silly. By contrast, Bracers of Armor actually provide their own Armor bonus, which won't stack with other Armor bonuses.
Gold Katana
08-17-06, 04:07 PM Both WILL stack with any armor bonus, because that is a different category entirely, as is shield, dodge, circumstance, luck, etc.

BTW - where are you finding these disparate statements? A look at the actual items / spells would be helpful.
Quention
08-17-06, 05:51 PM Both will NOT stack with any other bonus, because they are named. An Amulet of Natural Armor grants a Natural Armor Bonus (named) of +1 - +5.

Anything that enhances natural armor by x, increases any existing natural armor (even 0 as pointed out) by x.

As the OP brought up, the first, would not stack with, say the natural armor of a wolf. The second would enhance said NATURAL armor bonus by the stated amount. The first would still stack with the armor granted by something like a breastplate or a shield.
Bulletproof_Condom
08-17-06, 07:13 PM Two natural armor bonuses don't stack. Two enhancement bonuses to natural armor don't stack. But an enhancement bonus to natural armor explicitly stacks with a natural armor bonus.

This spell...Barkskin toughens a creature’s skin. The effect grants a +2 enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels above 3rd, to a maximum of +5 at caster level 12th.
The enhancement bonus provided by barkskin stacks with the target’s natural armor bonus, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0....would stack with a half-dragon's natural armor, but wouldn't stack with this item...This amulet, usually crafted from bone or beast scales, toughens the wearer’s body and flesh, giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus of from +1 to +5, depending on the kind of amulet....because they both grant an enhancement bonus to natural armor.

But I'm looking around and I can't seem to find a way to get two natural armor bonuses that wouldn't stack. All the sources I can remember seem to be pretty specific about stacking. Even things like half-dragon and VoP say "or your existing bonus increases by" whatever.

So yeah, if you can find two sources of natural armor that don't look like they should stack, I'd love to see them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ezekiel (NL) 08-17-06, 02:45 PM	When a bonus is described in a spell or magical item, the bonus can ben described in two ways: a +2 natural armor bonus to AC or a +2 bonus to natural armor. The first does not stack with any other armor bonus, but the way I read it, the second will!! The way I read it it's a bonus to an exsisting natural armor. Am I right or wrong?
Gold Katana 08-17-06, 02:59 PM	:noway:
ShinAkuma2 08-17-06, 03:55 PM	One is a Natural Armor bonus. This would add to your AC, but would not stack with an existing Natural Armor bonus. The other is a bonus to Natural Armor. It simply adds a value to your current Natural Armor, oftentimes even if that value is zero. This is designed to "stack". As an analogy, adding a +1 enhancement to a suit of armor adds one to the Armor bonus of that suit. It does not, itself, give a "+1 Armor bonus to AC", because then it wouldn't stack, and that'd be silly. By contrast, Bracers of Armor actually provide their own Armor bonus, which won't stack with other Armor bonuses.
Gold Katana 08-17-06, 04:07 PM	Both WILL stack with any armor bonus, because that is a different category entirely, as is shield, dodge, circumstance, luck, etc. BTW - where are you finding these disparate statements? A look at the actual items / spells would be helpful.
Quention 08-17-06, 05:51 PM	Both will NOT stack with any other bonus, because they are named. An Amulet of Natural Armor grants a Natural Armor Bonus (named) of +1 - +5. Anything that enhances natural armor by x, increases any existing natural armor (even 0 as pointed out) by x. As the OP brought up, the first, would not stack with, say the natural armor of a wolf. The second would enhance said NATURAL armor bonus by the stated amount. The first would still stack with the armor granted by something like a breastplate or a shield.
Bulletproof_Condom 08-17-06, 07:13 PM	Two natural armor bonuses don't stack. Two enhancement bonuses to natural armor don't stack. But an enhancement bonus to natural armor explicitly stacks with a natural armor bonus. This spell...Barkskin toughens a creature’s skin. The effect grants a +2 enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels above 3rd, to a maximum of +5 at caster level 12th. The enhancement bonus provided by barkskin stacks with the target’s natural armor bonus, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0....would stack with a half-dragon's natural armor, but wouldn't stack with this item...This amulet, usually crafted from bone or beast scales, toughens the wearer’s body and flesh, giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus of from +1 to +5, depending on the kind of amulet....because they both grant an enhancement bonus to natural armor. But I'm looking around and I can't seem to find a way to get two natural armor bonuses that wouldn't stack. All the sources I can remember seem to be pretty specific about stacking. Even things like half-dragon and VoP say "or your existing bonus increases by" whatever. So yeah, if you can find two sources of natural armor that don't look like they should stack, I'd love to see them.