Bonuses Stacking [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonuses Stacking [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 02:07 PM I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add.
Salla
11-07-07, 02:12 PM I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add.

Check the type of bonuses that each item provides. If they are different, then they will stack.

Bracers of armor: Armor Bonus
Ring of Protection: Deflection
Amulet of Natural Armor: Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor

All stack.
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 02:16 PM Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack?

Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with?
Killydd
11-07-07, 05:24 PM Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack?

Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with?

It depends on the exact wording for the first, however the Amulet of Natural Armor from the DMG states it as an enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus, so yes in that case they stack.

A Monk's AC bonus(both the wisdom and the numbered one) are untyped, and so stack with anything that is not themself.
Salla
11-07-07, 05:28 PM Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack?

Not exactly, but functionally yes.. The +1 enhancement bonus increases the existing +1 natural armor bonus to +2.

Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with?

Nope. It's unnamed, and thus stacks with everything.
risner
11-07-07, 06:26 PM I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add.

Bracers of Armour doesn't stack with Armour bonuses.

Ring of Protection doesn't stack with Deflection bonuses.

Amulet of Natural Armour does stack with Natural Armour since it is an enhancement to Natural Armour.

Amulet of Natural Armour doesn't stack with Barkskin.
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 06:28 PM Would I need anything besides Ring of Mind Shielding and Hat of Disguise so he won't be detected as an undead and killed?
BugHunter
11-07-07, 08:19 PM Ring of mind shielding would have no effect for a skeleton since they are mindless automatons. It does not stop a detect undead spell.
Legdiwena
11-08-07, 10:57 AM But it would help against detect evil, correct?
Salla
11-08-07, 01:32 PM But it would help against detect evil, correct?

Yes.
Legdiwena
11-08-07, 01:42 PM I don't lose monk abilities if I gain an armor or shield bonus from an item or spell as long as I'm not wearing actual armor or shield? For instance, would Robe of the Inferno count against it? Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield?
1 ton ghost
11-08-07, 01:47 PM you'd have to manually employ Disguise (skill) on the skeleton yourself. it could do specific instances as directed, ie)the clown wig, groucho marx mustache, etc. this would be terribly limited given it's Int.
but, being mindless and all, it cannot consciously activate a Hat of Disguise. that would require forethought and sentience i'm guessing. have to Awaken it.
you can cast Disguise Undead i suppose.
some would argue burying him in Full Plate w/ a great helm (visor closed), a bigass cloak and the like would help. there should be a more specific ruling on Disguise for instances like these anyway apart from the the generic "Circumstance Bonus". i mean, for God's sake, it's encases in steel head to toe w/ no visible flesh (or bone) showing.
risner
11-08-07, 02:32 PM Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield?

Yes, since you are wearing a shield in that case.
Same for Force Ring
Legdiwena
11-08-07, 02:35 PM Does that apply to mage armor or shield spells?
risner
11-08-07, 07:39 PM Does that apply to mage armor or shield spells?

no
Black Mantha
11-09-07, 11:55 AM Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with?
Yeah, some other classes that allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to AC state that it doesn't stack with the monk ability. Me, I just consider the level-dependent AC bonus untyped, and the other a Wisdom bonus.
I don't lose monk abilities if I gain an armor or shield bonus from an item or spell as long as I'm not wearing actual armor or shield? For instance, would Robe of the Inferno count against it? Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield?
Having a shield bonus is not the same as equipping a shield, so there's no problem. I think an animated shield still counts as equipped, though. You still get the armour check penality, for example.
risner
11-09-07, 01:13 PM Yeah, some other classes that allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to AC state that it doesn't stack with the monk ability. Me, I just consider the level-dependent AC bonus untyped, and the other a Wisdom bonus.

But officially (sage), they are both from one source (AC Bonus) and as such won't stack regardless of the stat source (like for example a Monk with INT to AC via Kung Fu Genius and a Swordsage with WIS to AC wouldn't stack, take the higher.)
groveborn
11-10-07, 12:55 AM Yes, since you are wearing a shield in that case.
Same for Force Ring

I'm pretty certain that a Force Ring would not count as a ring, as a shield is not employed, merely a force, shield shaped spell effect. It's weightless, and causes no encumbrance. Simply taking the "wielding it as a shield" part is insufficient to extrapolate that it's, in fact, a shield. It's a ring.

One would not require a heavy shield proficiency as there's no penalties to add.
risner
11-10-07, 08:41 AM I'm pretty certain that a Force Ring would not count as a ring, as a shield is not employed, merely a force, shield shaped spell effect. It's weightless, and causes no encumbrance. Simply taking the "wielding it as a shield" part is insufficient to extrapolate that it's, in fact, a shield. It's a ring.

It generates an effect identical to a shield, and you gain all the benefits (and penalties) of wearing a shield.

You do not need proficiency.
groveborn
11-10-07, 11:18 PM It generates an effect identical to a shield, and you gain all the benefits (and penalties) of wearing a shield.

You do not need proficiency.

Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action.

Where's the penalty? It's a ring.

Shield
spell
Abjuration [Force]

Level:
Sorcerer/Wizard 1

Components:
V, S

Casting Time:
1 standard action

Range:
Personal

Target:
You

Duration:
1 min./level (D)

Shield creates an invisible, tower shield-sized mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. It negates magic missile attacks directed at you. The disk also provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The Shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance. Unlike with a normal tower shield, you can't use the Shield spell for cover.

Should this also negate a monk's ability? I think not. Spell effects do not count as armor, nor shields, nor any object. They are effects.
RavenDrake
11-11-07, 04:09 AM You missed the key phrase in the Force Shield Ring that covers this:

Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC).

That means that, while the ring is active, it IS a heavy shield for all purposes. You need proficiency to use it freely(but since it has 0 ACP it imposes no tangible penalty), you can bash with it, if you have Shield Specialization(Heavy Shield) you gain +1 AC... it's just that it's a force construct with no weight rather than a physical shield.

And any character that loses thier abilities when wearing a shield will lose thier abilities when shield is active.

The shield spell contains no clause that identifies it's use as being the same as weilding a sheild(in fact it clearly states that the disc hovers in front of you, rather than being weilded at all, freeing up both of your hands, unlike the ring of Force Shield)
risner
11-11-07, 07:38 PM Should this also negate a monk's ability? I think not. Spell effects do not count as armor, nor shields, nor any object. They are effects.

See RavenDrake's post above, it was a very eloquently written example of the exact reason this busts a monk for trying to use the Force Ring.

Thank you RavenDrake, I think you explained it better than I ever could have.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 02:07 PM	I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add.
Salla 11-07-07, 02:12 PM	I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add. Check the type of bonuses that each item provides. If they are different, then they will stack. Bracers of armor: Armor Bonus Ring of Protection: Deflection Amulet of Natural Armor: Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor All stack.
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 02:16 PM	Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack? Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with?
Killydd 11-07-07, 05:24 PM	Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack? Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with? It depends on the exact wording for the first, however the Amulet of Natural Armor from the DMG states it as an enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus, so yes in that case they stack. A Monk's AC bonus(both the wisdom and the numbered one) are untyped, and so stack with anything that is not themself.
Salla 11-07-07, 05:28 PM	Do +1 natural armor and +1 enhancement to natural armor stack? Not exactly, but functionally yes.. The +1 enhancement bonus increases the existing +1 natural armor bonus to +2. Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with? Nope. It's unnamed, and thus stacks with everything.
risner 11-07-07, 06:26 PM	I want to equip a skeleton to guard my room and was wondering on item stacking. Do bracers of armor, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor all stack together? I'm away from my list at the moment, might have a few more to add. Bracers of Armour doesn't stack with Armour bonuses. Ring of Protection doesn't stack with Deflection bonuses. Amulet of Natural Armour does stack with Natural Armour since it is an enhancement to Natural Armour. Amulet of Natural Armour doesn't stack with Barkskin.
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 06:28 PM	Would I need anything besides Ring of Mind Shielding and Hat of Disguise so he won't be detected as an undead and killed?
BugHunter 11-07-07, 08:19 PM	Ring of mind shielding would have no effect for a skeleton since they are mindless automatons. It does not stop a detect undead spell.
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 10:57 AM	But it would help against detect evil, correct?
Salla 11-08-07, 01:32 PM	But it would help against detect evil, correct? Yes.
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 01:42 PM	I don't lose monk abilities if I gain an armor or shield bonus from an item or spell as long as I'm not wearing actual armor or shield? For instance, would Robe of the Inferno count against it? Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield?
1 ton ghost 11-08-07, 01:47 PM	you'd have to manually employ Disguise (skill) on the skeleton yourself. it could do specific instances as directed, ie)the clown wig, groucho marx mustache, etc. this would be terribly limited given it's Int. but, being mindless and all, it cannot consciously activate a Hat of Disguise. that would require forethought and sentience i'm guessing. have to Awaken it. you can cast Disguise Undead i suppose. some would argue burying him in Full Plate w/ a great helm (visor closed), a bigass cloak and the like would help. there should be a more specific ruling on Disguise for instances like these anyway apart from the the generic "Circumstance Bonus". i mean, for God's sake, it's encases in steel head to toe w/ no visible flesh (or bone) showing.
risner 11-08-07, 02:32 PM	Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield? Yes, since you are wearing a shield in that case. Same for Force Ring
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 02:35 PM	Does that apply to mage armor or shield spells?
risner 11-08-07, 07:39 PM	Does that apply to mage armor or shield spells? no
Black Mantha 11-09-07, 11:55 AM	Is there anything the AC Bonus for Monks doesn't stack with? Yeah, some other classes that allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to AC state that it doesn't stack with the monk ability. Me, I just consider the level-dependent AC bonus untyped, and the other a Wisdom bonus. I don't lose monk abilities if I gain an armor or shield bonus from an item or spell as long as I'm not wearing actual armor or shield? For instance, would Robe of the Inferno count against it? Would an animated shield hurt my abilities since I'm not actually equipping the shield? Having a shield bonus is not the same as equipping a shield, so there's no problem. I think an animated shield still counts as equipped, though. You still get the armour check penality, for example.
risner 11-09-07, 01:13 PM	Yeah, some other classes that allow you to add your Wisdom modifier to AC state that it doesn't stack with the monk ability. Me, I just consider the level-dependent AC bonus untyped, and the other a Wisdom bonus. But officially (sage), they are both from one source (AC Bonus) and as such won't stack regardless of the stat source (like for example a Monk with INT to AC via Kung Fu Genius and a Swordsage with WIS to AC wouldn't stack, take the higher.)
groveborn 11-10-07, 12:55 AM	Yes, since you are wearing a shield in that case. Same for Force Ring I'm pretty certain that a Force Ring would not count as a ring, as a shield is not employed, merely a force, shield shaped spell effect. It's weightless, and causes no encumbrance. Simply taking the "wielding it as a shield" part is insufficient to extrapolate that it's, in fact, a shield. It's a ring. One would not require a heavy shield proficiency as there's no penalties to add.
risner 11-10-07, 08:41 AM	I'm pretty certain that a Force Ring would not count as a ring, as a shield is not employed, merely a force, shield shaped spell effect. It's weightless, and causes no encumbrance. Simply taking the "wielding it as a shield" part is insufficient to extrapolate that it's, in fact, a shield. It's a ring. It generates an effect identical to a shield, and you gain all the benefits (and penalties) of wearing a shield. You do not need proficiency.
groveborn 11-10-07, 11:18 PM	It generates an effect identical to a shield, and you gain all the benefits (and penalties) of wearing a shield. You do not need proficiency. Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action. Where's the penalty? It's a ring. Shield spell Abjuration [Force] Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) Shield creates an invisible, tower shield-sized mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. It negates magic missile attacks directed at you. The disk also provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The Shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance. Unlike with a normal tower shield, you can't use the Shield spell for cover. Should this also negate a monk's ability? I think not. Spell effects do not count as armor, nor shields, nor any object. They are effects.
RavenDrake 11-11-07, 04:09 AM	You missed the key phrase in the Force Shield Ring that covers this: Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). That means that, while the ring is active, it IS a heavy shield for all purposes. You need proficiency to use it freely(but since it has 0 ACP it imposes no tangible penalty), you can bash with it, if you have Shield Specialization(Heavy Shield) you gain +1 AC... it's just that it's a force construct with no weight rather than a physical shield. And any character that loses thier abilities when wearing a shield will lose thier abilities when shield is active. The shield spell contains no clause that identifies it's use as being the same as weilding a sheild(in fact it clearly states that the disc hovers in front of you, rather than being weilded at all, freeing up both of your hands, unlike the ring of Force Shield)
risner 11-11-07, 07:38 PM	Should this also negate a monk's ability? I think not. Spell effects do not count as armor, nor shields, nor any object. They are effects. See RavenDrake's post above, it was a very eloquently written example of the exact reason this busts a monk for trying to use the Force Ring. Thank you RavenDrake, I think you explained it better than I ever could have.