Bottom's up! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bottom's up! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Da Dinictus
05-02-05, 01:54 PM Right-ho. I'm looking for some rules on drinking, being drunk and intoxicated, negative modifiers to attributes because of (excessive) drinking and, most importantly, how it may affect spellcasting.

Intelligence dropping, whether there are drinks that would rather drop Wisdom rather than Intelligence, how it would affect casting failure?

Any help? I'm planning a prestige class not unlike the Drunken Master, for arcane spellcasters. 'Arcane Booze Hound', I do believe I will call him.
Chaotica Maxima
05-02-05, 02:16 PM And I'm sure this has nothing to do with my Cleric drinking herself into a near coma last session........
Da Dinictus
05-02-05, 02:22 PM And I'm sure this has nothing to do with my Cleric drinking herself into a near coma last session........She gave me the inspiration :D
Chaotica Maxima
05-02-05, 04:35 PM She gave me the inspiration :D

You will rue the day I play Dwarven Sorceror using your drunken caster class......
Da Dinictus
05-02-05, 04:44 PM You will rue the day I play Dwarven Sorceror using your drunken caster class......A class including a decrease in drinking penalties, some drinking bonuses, requiring knowledge in beers and the arcane, and having created at least a single spell of level 2 or higher that requires one to drink a heavy alchoholic beverage?

My boy, I will enjoy it :D
evangelion1010
05-02-05, 05:47 PM I believe arms and equipment guide gave rules for being drunk. Various alcohols had various fort saves that needed to be made for each time consumed (assuming you weren't trying to get drunk). Failure resulted in -1 dex and wisdom i believe. Reaching 0 in either meant you passed out. 0 in both meant you risked dying.

Needless to say the dwarven fighter can drink anyone under the table... and still go "whats wrong guys?"
Keenath
05-02-05, 05:56 PM The Arms and Equipment guide has rules for being drunk. Basically...
You take a -1 penalty to both Dexterity and Wisdom when you drink a full unit of alcohol (one mug of beer, one glass of wine, one shot of hard liquor). The penalty increases for each drink you imbibe, but decreases by one for each hour that passes. If you hit 0 wisdom, you pass out. If you hit 0 dexterity, you lose the ability to move or act, but stay blearily conscious. If both hit 0 at the same time, you have to save against alcohol poisoning.

That's not really a good rule, in my opinion, because it doesn't take constitution or fortitude into account.

So, my house rule (if you care to make it more complex) would be to double the per-drink penalty but allow a fort save to negate, with the save increasing in difficulty for each drink you've had in the last hour. That means it'll take 4 to 6 drinks to knock out a lightweight (low fortitude) type with a near-average scores (as opposed to 8 to 12 for the AEG system!), but heroic characters will be able to get heroically drunk.
Vahenir
05-02-05, 06:26 PM but heroic characters will be able to get heroically drunk.

This is the greatest thing that has been said on these boards today.

Bravo.
Gil Gwath
05-02-05, 07:25 PM my favourite rules for drinking are in a third party book, Tournaments', Fairs and Taverns by Natural 20 Press.
Borris
05-02-05, 08:31 PM I must say I like the Rashemi firewine from Unapproachable East.

A character who drinks it must make a DC 12 Fort save. Those who fail this save (and most choose to fail) take 1 point of temporary Wisdom damage. One minute later, the character gains a +2 bonus to Strength, which lasts two hours.

The real hangover starts once the Strength bonus wears off. The character must make a DC Fort save or immediately fall unconscious for 3d4 hours. Whether or not this save is successful, the user takes a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, and checks for 12 hours.

Most Rashemi barbarians are too poor to afford firewine and content temselves with a version watered down with ale that has the same effects but doesn't grant the Strength bonus or cause unconsciousness.
lovehater
05-02-05, 08:45 PM what about the posotive side effects? like, feeling of happiness! joy! oh and dont forget hangovers, also they should make a fort. save afet 3-4 drinks or throw up (DC 15?) yup yup yup
jaelis
05-02-05, 09:57 PM I always thought "Drunkard" would make a neat LA +0 template :)

jaelis
Celas Evriamytholin
05-03-05, 03:42 PM There was a 0th level orison called Quicksober in the Relics and Rituals book.
In a nutshell, you became sober in the span of a few seconds. A must for a magic-using drinker =P

The Quintessential dwarf also had some rather good rules on drinking, drinking games and special enhancing drinks. (Who would have thought?)
Jaid
05-03-05, 04:07 PM hmmm.... coulda swore alcohol counts as a poison... save DC something or other +2 per "dose" consumed recently... within an hour or two i think... heals quicker than normal temp damage as well iirc... but anyways, i remember reading rules for it somewhere... hrmm.... maybe drunken master... did that make it to 3.5?
The_Fan
05-03-05, 04:18 PM It does. The previous posters left out the fact that there is a fortitude save, ranging from DC 10 for weak alcohols (wine coolers, Zima) to DC 15 for dangerously strong (everclear, Aristocrat vodka). And, it's 1d3 dex and wis damage, not just 1. This is special dex and wis damage that recovers at a rate of 1/hour instead of 1/day,

If you reach 0 dex, you're fall-down drunk and can no longer find your lips with the bottle. If you reach 0 wis, you slip into a drunken stupor and go unconcious. If you reach 0 in both, you're in danger of alcohol poisoning and start losing 1 con every (interval)* until someone either heals you or you recover enough to stave off death.

*Don't have my book with me, and unlike most people I don't just guess when I can't remember. If I remember I'll post it later, or you could just hope this situation never comes up.
Keenath
05-03-05, 04:35 PM It does. The previous posters left out the fact that there is a fortitude save, ranging from DC 10 for weak alcohols (wine coolers, Zima) to DC 15 for dangerously strong (everclear, Aristocrat vodka). And, it's 1d3 dex and wis damage, not just 1. This is special dex and wis damage that recovers at a rate of 1/hour instead of 1/day,
That isn't listed in the rules I read.

*Don't have my book with me, and unlike most people I don't just guess when I can't remember. If I remember I'll post it later, or you could just hope this situation never comes up.
Boy, don't be irritating or anything. What book are you getting this out of? I quoted my source -- the AEG -- and then I said I didn't like those rules and I'd use these instead.

I think I recall reading something about this in the Book of Vile Darkness, but as I recall, that was rules for extremely strong and/or noxious liquors rather than your basic beer.

I don't think it needs to be a poison, because then you're dealing with primary and secondary damage and so on. It probably works better as special rules to cover a rarely-important situation, though as a DM, I'd allow fort save bonuses against Poison to apply.
The_Fan
05-03-05, 05:03 PM That isn't listed in the rules I read.

Boy, don't be irritating or anything. What book are you getting this out of? I quoted my source -- the AEG -- and then I said I didn't like those rules and I'd use these instead.

I think I recall reading something about this in the Book of Vile Darkness, but as I recall, that was rules for extremely strong and/or noxious liquors rather than your basic beer.

I don't think it needs to be a poison, because then you're dealing with primary and secondary damage and so on. It probably works better as special rules to cover a rarely-important situation, though as a DM, I'd allow fort save bonuses against Poison to apply.

Interesting. My Arms & Equipment Guide says something VERY different on page 32. (having just found it under a pile of laundry)

It says pretty much what I said before, though I will concede I was wrong on the damage: 1d2 instead of 1d3.

I also left out the fact that the number of drinks you've had in the past hour applies an exponentially increasing penalty to the fort save (-1 at your second, -2 at your third, -4 at your fourth, -8 at your fifth, etc). Apologies on that.

Also, clarification of alcohol poisoning: The con damage is not automatic, it requires a fortitude save at the same DC as the alcohol. The interval is 10 minutes.

I'll personally say that it would probably be better to adapt the drug rules in the Book of Vile Darkness, but unless you want to do a lot of work, these are probably fine.
Keenath
05-03-05, 05:56 PM I also left out the fact that the number of drinks you've had in the past hour applies an exponentially increasing penalty to the fort save (-1 at your second, -2 at your third, -4 at your fourth, -8 at your fifth, etc). Apologies on that. Really? I didn't recall a save. I appologize if it did include one.

I didn't want to quote the exact rules due to the COC, and at any rate I don't have my copy on hand at the moment.
Celas Evriamytholin
05-03-05, 09:01 PM The dwarves' love of ale and natural resistance to toxins give them the ability to drink just about any other intelligent creature under the table. While few dwarves drink strictly to get drunk, drinking games are very popular in dwarven taverns the world over.

A bit further on: these are on Page 32 & 33, by the way :)

Intoxication is handled similarly to poisoning, though all damage caused is temporary and usually passes within hours or, at worst, a day or two of rest. Whenever a character imbibes an alcoholic drink (between 8 and 10 ounces qualifies as a drink in this case), he must make a Fortitude save with a DC determined by the strength of the drink, as shown on the table overleaf. If the save fails, the character suffers temporary ability damage (also summarized on the table). Once the character stops drinking, this damage begins healing at the rate of one point every hour (the drunken character chooses which ability score is restored each hour). If the character begins drinking again before he is completely restored from the previous intoxication, the ability damage stops healing.

Its long, isn't it? Theres plenty more, dont you worry ^.^ . I might as well make it thorough. These lines confirm most of what both sides were saying.

For every 2 points of temporary Intelligence or Wisdom damage, the character also suffers a reduction in Dexterity of 1 point. This dexterity impairment is restored as the temporary Intelligence or Wisdom losses are healed.

When one of the character's ability scores reach 1, or both Intelligence and Wisdom are reduced to below one half of their starting totals, the character immediately passes out. If either, or both, of the character's ability scores are reduced to zero or below, the character dies from alcohol poisoning.

Score!

Any spells which provide resistance to, or healing from, the effects of poison will also provide resistance to, and healing from, the effects of intoxication.

Now, I apologize ahead of time for the weakness of how I am going to display this table ^.^

Alcoholic Beverage Potencies
Drink Strength Initial Damage Secondary Damage Save DC Example
Weak--------------1 Intelligence-------1 Wisdom-------15*--Watery Beer
Stout-------------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom------15---Beer, Wine, Ale
Potent-------------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom-----20----Rum, Whiskey
Dangerous----------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom-----25-------Pure Grain
Alcohol

Now, although it says 15 for the weak drinks, I think that it is actually 10, though I dont have the errata, nor do I know if they actually came out with one. I mean, most people can drink a watered down beer no problem. A DC of 15 would mean that most commoners or weaker classes couldn't even drink a watered down beer without getting all wired up. Meh =)

Now, I certainly hope that this puts things in a different light for you. Roar.
lovehater
05-03-05, 09:21 PM shouldn't dungeons and dragons be played to waste people not get wasted yourself? tch-tch :shifty: . well, i mean, whats the deal with charsima? do you get plus 2 on all prostitutes? and minus 2 to all maidens? :)
Keenath
05-03-05, 11:57 PM Whaaat? If your INT or WIS hit zero, you die instantly? No save? That's silly... Zero is when you pass out. Passed out is what zero MEANS.
The_Fan
05-04-05, 08:13 PM Mongoose isn't renowned for thinking things through very well.

Plus, in my own personal experience I can say that alcohol does not affect your actual intelligence. Yes, you act stupid, but that's a function of it affecting your wisdom. I've taken tests while drunk, but I've also...well, let's just say it affects judgement.

...and for the record, I didn't know those boxers had a hole in them!
Celas Evriamytholin
05-04-05, 08:58 PM Again, it all depends on how you look at it.

There is definitely a difference between a feeblemind spell that steals away your intelligence and charisma until its down to one or somesuch spell, and mundane substances that are so strong that they cause ability damage. Thats why you pass out when your Intelligence reaches one or your Wisdom and Intelligence are both at half or less. Thats your body telling you its had enough. If you somehow manage to get back up (or someone forces some down your throat), no matter how strong or tough you are, you are only human (or elven, etc.). You'd have to drink _alot_ to drop your stats that low.

See, magical diseases and poisons can be cured, but sometimes the trauma caused to your bodily functions by mundane substances are much more harmful than magic in the long run. It makes sense to me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Da Dinictus 05-02-05, 01:54 PM	Right-ho. I'm looking for some rules on drinking, being drunk and intoxicated, negative modifiers to attributes because of (excessive) drinking and, most importantly, how it may affect spellcasting. Intelligence dropping, whether there are drinks that would rather drop Wisdom rather than Intelligence, how it would affect casting failure? Any help? I'm planning a prestige class not unlike the Drunken Master, for arcane spellcasters. 'Arcane Booze Hound', I do believe I will call him.
Chaotica Maxima 05-02-05, 02:16 PM	And I'm sure this has nothing to do with my Cleric drinking herself into a near coma last session........
Da Dinictus 05-02-05, 02:22 PM	And I'm sure this has nothing to do with my Cleric drinking herself into a near coma last session........She gave me the inspiration :D
Chaotica Maxima 05-02-05, 04:35 PM	She gave me the inspiration :D You will rue the day I play Dwarven Sorceror using your drunken caster class......
Da Dinictus 05-02-05, 04:44 PM	You will rue the day I play Dwarven Sorceror using your drunken caster class......A class including a decrease in drinking penalties, some drinking bonuses, requiring knowledge in beers and the arcane, and having created at least a single spell of level 2 or higher that requires one to drink a heavy alchoholic beverage? My boy, I will enjoy it :D
evangelion1010 05-02-05, 05:47 PM	I believe arms and equipment guide gave rules for being drunk. Various alcohols had various fort saves that needed to be made for each time consumed (assuming you weren't trying to get drunk). Failure resulted in -1 dex and wisdom i believe. Reaching 0 in either meant you passed out. 0 in both meant you risked dying. Needless to say the dwarven fighter can drink anyone under the table... and still go "whats wrong guys?"
Keenath 05-02-05, 05:56 PM	The Arms and Equipment guide has rules for being drunk. Basically... You take a -1 penalty to both Dexterity and Wisdom when you drink a full unit of alcohol (one mug of beer, one glass of wine, one shot of hard liquor). The penalty increases for each drink you imbibe, but decreases by one for each hour that passes. If you hit 0 wisdom, you pass out. If you hit 0 dexterity, you lose the ability to move or act, but stay blearily conscious. If both hit 0 at the same time, you have to save against alcohol poisoning. That's not really a good rule, in my opinion, because it doesn't take constitution or fortitude into account. So, my house rule (if you care to make it more complex) would be to double the per-drink penalty but allow a fort save to negate, with the save increasing in difficulty for each drink you've had in the last hour. That means it'll take 4 to 6 drinks to knock out a lightweight (low fortitude) type with a near-average scores (as opposed to 8 to 12 for the AEG system!), but heroic characters will be able to get heroically drunk.
Vahenir 05-02-05, 06:26 PM	but heroic characters will be able to get heroically drunk. This is the greatest thing that has been said on these boards today. Bravo.
Gil Gwath 05-02-05, 07:25 PM	my favourite rules for drinking are in a third party book, Tournaments', Fairs and Taverns by Natural 20 Press.
Borris 05-02-05, 08:31 PM	I must say I like the Rashemi firewine from Unapproachable East. A character who drinks it must make a DC 12 Fort save. Those who fail this save (and most choose to fail) take 1 point of temporary Wisdom damage. One minute later, the character gains a +2 bonus to Strength, which lasts two hours. The real hangover starts once the Strength bonus wears off. The character must make a DC Fort save or immediately fall unconscious for 3d4 hours. Whether or not this save is successful, the user takes a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, and checks for 12 hours. Most Rashemi barbarians are too poor to afford firewine and content temselves with a version watered down with ale that has the same effects but doesn't grant the Strength bonus or cause unconsciousness.
lovehater 05-02-05, 08:45 PM	what about the posotive side effects? like, feeling of happiness! joy! oh and dont forget hangovers, also they should make a fort. save afet 3-4 drinks or throw up (DC 15?) yup yup yup
jaelis 05-02-05, 09:57 PM	I always thought "Drunkard" would make a neat LA +0 template :) jaelis
Celas Evriamytholin 05-03-05, 03:42 PM	There was a 0th level orison called Quicksober in the Relics and Rituals book. In a nutshell, you became sober in the span of a few seconds. A must for a magic-using drinker =P The Quintessential dwarf also had some rather good rules on drinking, drinking games and special enhancing drinks. (Who would have thought?)
Jaid 05-03-05, 04:07 PM	hmmm.... coulda swore alcohol counts as a poison... save DC something or other +2 per "dose" consumed recently... within an hour or two i think... heals quicker than normal temp damage as well iirc... but anyways, i remember reading rules for it somewhere... hrmm.... maybe drunken master... did that make it to 3.5?
The_Fan 05-03-05, 04:18 PM	It does. The previous posters left out the fact that there is a fortitude save, ranging from DC 10 for weak alcohols (wine coolers, Zima) to DC 15 for dangerously strong (everclear, Aristocrat vodka). And, it's 1d3 dex and wis damage, not just 1. This is special dex and wis damage that recovers at a rate of 1/hour instead of 1/day, If you reach 0 dex, you're fall-down drunk and can no longer find your lips with the bottle. If you reach 0 wis, you slip into a drunken stupor and go unconcious. If you reach 0 in both, you're in danger of alcohol poisoning and start losing 1 con every (interval)* until someone either heals you or you recover enough to stave off death. *Don't have my book with me, and unlike most people I don't just guess when I can't remember. If I remember I'll post it later, or you could just hope this situation never comes up.
Keenath 05-03-05, 04:35 PM	It does. The previous posters left out the fact that there is a fortitude save, ranging from DC 10 for weak alcohols (wine coolers, Zima) to DC 15 for dangerously strong (everclear, Aristocrat vodka). And, it's 1d3 dex and wis damage, not just 1. This is special dex and wis damage that recovers at a rate of 1/hour instead of 1/day, That isn't listed in the rules I read. *Don't have my book with me, and unlike most people I don't just guess when I can't remember. If I remember I'll post it later, or you could just hope this situation never comes up. Boy, don't be irritating or anything. What book are you getting this out of? I quoted my source -- the AEG -- and then I said I didn't like those rules and I'd use these instead. I think I recall reading something about this in the Book of Vile Darkness, but as I recall, that was rules for extremely strong and/or noxious liquors rather than your basic beer. I don't think it needs to be a poison, because then you're dealing with primary and secondary damage and so on. It probably works better as special rules to cover a rarely-important situation, though as a DM, I'd allow fort save bonuses against Poison to apply.
The_Fan 05-03-05, 05:03 PM	That isn't listed in the rules I read. Boy, don't be irritating or anything. What book are you getting this out of? I quoted my source -- the AEG -- and then I said I didn't like those rules and I'd use these instead. I think I recall reading something about this in the Book of Vile Darkness, but as I recall, that was rules for extremely strong and/or noxious liquors rather than your basic beer. I don't think it needs to be a poison, because then you're dealing with primary and secondary damage and so on. It probably works better as special rules to cover a rarely-important situation, though as a DM, I'd allow fort save bonuses against Poison to apply. Interesting. My Arms & Equipment Guide says something VERY different on page 32. (having just found it under a pile of laundry) It says pretty much what I said before, though I will concede I was wrong on the damage: 1d2 instead of 1d3. I also left out the fact that the number of drinks you've had in the past hour applies an exponentially increasing penalty to the fort save (-1 at your second, -2 at your third, -4 at your fourth, -8 at your fifth, etc). Apologies on that. Also, clarification of alcohol poisoning: The con damage is not automatic, it requires a fortitude save at the same DC as the alcohol. The interval is 10 minutes. I'll personally say that it would probably be better to adapt the drug rules in the Book of Vile Darkness, but unless you want to do a lot of work, these are probably fine.
Keenath 05-03-05, 05:56 PM	I also left out the fact that the number of drinks you've had in the past hour applies an exponentially increasing penalty to the fort save (-1 at your second, -2 at your third, -4 at your fourth, -8 at your fifth, etc). Apologies on that. Really? I didn't recall a save. I appologize if it did include one. I didn't want to quote the exact rules due to the COC, and at any rate I don't have my copy on hand at the moment.
Celas Evriamytholin 05-03-05, 09:01 PM	The dwarves' love of ale and natural resistance to toxins give them the ability to drink just about any other intelligent creature under the table. While few dwarves drink strictly to get drunk, drinking games are very popular in dwarven taverns the world over. A bit further on: these are on Page 32 & 33, by the way :) Intoxication is handled similarly to poisoning, though all damage caused is temporary and usually passes within hours or, at worst, a day or two of rest. Whenever a character imbibes an alcoholic drink (between 8 and 10 ounces qualifies as a drink in this case), he must make a Fortitude save with a DC determined by the strength of the drink, as shown on the table overleaf. If the save fails, the character suffers temporary ability damage (also summarized on the table). Once the character stops drinking, this damage begins healing at the rate of one point every hour (the drunken character chooses which ability score is restored each hour). If the character begins drinking again before he is completely restored from the previous intoxication, the ability damage stops healing. Its long, isn't it? Theres plenty more, dont you worry ^.^ . I might as well make it thorough. These lines confirm most of what both sides were saying. For every 2 points of temporary Intelligence or Wisdom damage, the character also suffers a reduction in Dexterity of 1 point. This dexterity impairment is restored as the temporary Intelligence or Wisdom losses are healed. When one of the character's ability scores reach 1, or both Intelligence and Wisdom are reduced to below one half of their starting totals, the character immediately passes out. If either, or both, of the character's ability scores are reduced to zero or below, the character dies from alcohol poisoning. Score! Any spells which provide resistance to, or healing from, the effects of poison will also provide resistance to, and healing from, the effects of intoxication. Now, I apologize ahead of time for the weakness of how I am going to display this table ^.^ Alcoholic Beverage Potencies Drink Strength Initial Damage Secondary Damage Save DC Example Weak--------------1 Intelligence-------1 Wisdom-------15*--Watery Beer Stout-------------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom------15---Beer, Wine, Ale Potent-------------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom-----20----Rum, Whiskey Dangerous----------1d3 Intelligence----1d3 Wisdom-----25-------Pure Grain Alcohol Now, although it says 15 for the weak drinks, I think that it is actually 10, though I dont have the errata, nor do I know if they actually came out with one. I mean, most people can drink a watered down beer no problem. A DC of 15 would mean that most commoners or weaker classes couldn't even drink a watered down beer without getting all wired up. Meh =) Now, I certainly hope that this puts things in a different light for you. Roar.
lovehater 05-03-05, 09:21 PM	shouldn't dungeons and dragons be played to waste people not get wasted yourself? tch-tch :shifty: . well, i mean, whats the deal with charsima? do you get plus 2 on all prostitutes? and minus 2 to all maidens? :)
Keenath 05-03-05, 11:57 PM	Whaaat? If your INT or WIS hit zero, you die instantly? No save? That's silly... Zero is when you pass out. Passed out is what zero MEANS.
The_Fan 05-04-05, 08:13 PM	Mongoose isn't renowned for thinking things through very well. Plus, in my own personal experience I can say that alcohol does not affect your actual intelligence. Yes, you act stupid, but that's a function of it affecting your wisdom. I've taken tests while drunk, but I've also...well, let's just say it affects judgement. ...and for the record, I didn't know those boxers had a hole in them!
Celas Evriamytholin 05-04-05, 08:58 PM	Again, it all depends on how you look at it. There is definitely a difference between a feeblemind spell that steals away your intelligence and charisma until its down to one or somesuch spell, and mundane substances that are so strong that they cause ability damage. Thats why you pass out when your Intelligence reaches one or your Wisdom and Intelligence are both at half or less. Thats your body telling you its had enough. If you somehow manage to get back up (or someone forces some down your throat), no matter how strong or tough you are, you are only human (or elven, etc.). You'd have to drink _alot_ to drop your stats that low. See, magical diseases and poisons can be cured, but sometimes the trauma caused to your bodily functions by mundane substances are much more harmful than magic in the long run. It makes sense to me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.