Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shrympscampi 10-05-06, 01:02 PM	In a fight where I just became disabled (0 hps), I have bow in hand and a standard action left. Opponent, size tiny, is down to 1 hit point. Can I use the bow club-like and hit my opponent before falling?
Telhuine 10-05-06, 01:26 PM	In a fight where I just became disabled (0 hps), I have bow in hand and a standard action left. Opponent, size tiny, is down to 1 hit point. Can I use the bow club-like and hit my opponent before falling? I would probably rule as following. This first part is from the SRD... "Improvised Weapons Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. " So, you could use it at a penalty because it isn't designed to be swung that way, but I would likely rule a longbow to deal damage like a club (1d6 for medium-sized char). A shortbow I would probably give 1d4.
tarkin 10-05-06, 01:33 PM	I would do the same. But also rule, that if you hit, you have permanetly damaged your bow. It is now -1 to hit, until you get it fixed (1/2 the cost to make)
Telhuine 10-05-06, 01:48 PM	I would do the same. But also rule, that if you hit, you have permanetly damaged your bow. It is now -1 to hit, until you get it fixed (1/2 the cost to make) I thought about this as well but didn't pursue it any further. For me, I figure a bow to be made out of sturdy material and also designed to be flexible to a point. I likely wouldn't give automatic damage to the bow if it hit. Rather, I would give it perhaps a 5% chance that you hit someone with it on such a spot that it would break the bow completely. Of course, if you continued to use it in such a manner, the percentile would increase dramatically.
Longarms 10-05-06, 01:50 PM	Just have the bow break on a natural 1
Silverthumb128 10-05-06, 02:00 PM	For me, I figure a bow to be made out of sturdy material and also designed to be flexible to a point. It would be sturdy, but definitely not built for melee. Its not nearly sturdy enough to deal 1d6 damage, given that a dart(it does 1 damage) could either break or critically damage the bow.
Telhuine 10-05-06, 02:41 PM	It would be sturdy, but definitely not built for melee. Its not nearly sturdy enough to deal 1d6 damage, given that a dart(it does 1 damage) could either break or critically damage the bow. I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a long debate. So this'll be my last post in this one. I was just reading things out of the SRD (don't have my PHB and DMG here at work) and making educated decisions based on what they say. A bow would be an improvised weapon and would fall under the quote I mention above. It says, "To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match." I figured that since a longbow weighs the same amount as a club (3lbs), it would therefore do equivalent damage. Again, I'm sorry I don't have my PHB or DMG in front of me, but I would bet a penny that a bow has a hardness and hit points greater than 1. My guess is 5 / 5. You'd have to throw darts at an unattended bow for a little while to be able to break or damage a bow in the manner you suggest. An attended bow, I don't think you'd have a chance. *shrug*
Inigo Carmine 10-05-06, 03:44 PM	I don't think I'd have the bow do damage equal to a club. A bow will not hit quite as hard as a club because it is made to bend. Also, bows shouldn't be as thick as a club either. Weight alone isn't a good comparison. A 6-ft long styrofoam pool noodle also weighs about 3 lbs, but it sure doesn't do damage like a baseball bat (which would be something like a MW club).
Arvagor 10-05-06, 03:59 PM	If you want some game mechanics, check out the elvencraft bow "enhancement" in Races of the Wild. Essentially, sturdier construction allows the bow to be used as a melee weapon (without the improvised weapon penalty) to deal damage based on the size of the bow (i.e., whether shortbow or longbow). Based on what they say, I would suggest than a non-elvencraft bow might be treated as one size category smaller (in terms of damage dealt) to reflect this less sturdy construction. You would also still take the improvised weapon penalty...
Th_Ar_Al 10-05-06, 04:03 PM	I thought about this as well but didn't pursue it any further. For me, I figure a bow to be made out of sturdy material and also designed to be flexible to a point. I likely wouldn't give automatic damage to the bow if it hit. Rather, I would give it perhaps a 5% chance that you hit someone with it on such a spot that it would break the bow completely. Of course, if you continued to use it in such a manner, the percentile would increase dramatically. I suppose it is the best alternative. Also, I suppose that a masterwork should have a lesser chance to break.
Shadowfax7 10-05-06, 09:56 PM	I don't think I'd have the bow do damage equal to a club. A bow will not hit quite as hard as a club because it is made to bend. Also, bows shouldn't be as thick as a club either.I was thinking about this as well, but then compare the longbow to a quarterstaff in thickness. The quarterstaff might be a pound heavier, but its thickness is comparable to a longbow.
shift244 10-05-06, 10:45 PM	By RAW, i believe, a bow is an improvised club of the appropriate size. Attacks incurr penalties under the Improvised Weapons rules. It does not break on a nat 1, nor does it suffer any form of damage, as the core rules have no weapon durability, and weapons do not wear nor break mechanically apart from being Sundered actively. Even realistically speaking, I wonder if a bow would suffer that much damage enough to cause it to "wear". I mean, not having arched at all, I understand the bow frame as solely needing to provide some elasticity/resistance (may not be the proper term) as the bow string is drawn back. The potential energy stored in this is then transffered to the arrow upon its release. The accuracy of the whole system setup is reliant on the make of the arrow, the spin from its fletches and of course, the archer's skill and competency. Any damage to the frame, might affect the elasticity somewhat, but I think it would more likely cause the bow to split as it is drawn instead of affecting accuracy/penetration force (both reasonably represented by the attack roll). An even if the latter case(s), sufficient for a -1 to hit? I think foregoing this is reasonable enough. An archer would most likely use his bow as its meant to be more than a club. If a player does excessively do the latter, I believe then, it would be DM's call to "break the bow".