Bow, Crossbow, etc without ammo. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bow, Crossbow, etc without ammo. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SephDragoon
10-08-06, 04:22 PM I was wondering, how could I get a ranged weapon like a bow or crossbow that doesn't require ammo? This is for a very specialized purpose, so an endless quiver of arrows wouldn't work. The enhancement has to be on the weapon itself.
Ocom
10-08-06, 04:26 PM A ranged weapon must have something to shoot/launch etc.
There are no such weapons. But there are spells, there are powers and then... there is the soulbow :evillaugh
Conshey
10-08-06, 04:29 PM Ok, i've actually worked on this concept my self and come up with a very consevable model. Although it is based off of Psionics, so if that is banned i cannot help.

There is a Level 1 Power called bolt, which creates a few short lived bolts or arrows. Now apply this to a weapon, and you have unlimited ammo as long as you pull the weapon to fire. I have play tested it and it works well as a +2 modifier on the weapon.

Conshey
MaximumHavoc
10-08-06, 04:45 PM Ok, i've actually worked on this concept my self and come up with a very consevable model. Although it is based off of Psionics, so if that is banned i cannot help.

There is a Level 1 Power called bolt, which creates a few short lived bolts or arrows. Now apply this to a weapon, and you have unlimited ammo as long as you pull the weapon to fire. I have play tested it and it works well as a +2 modifier on the weapon.

Conshey
i like your idea. i was thinking about adapting the brilliant energy magic weapon special ability to bow/crossbows in such a way that would also require no loading (i.e., unlimited ammo) as perhaps a +5 modifier.

Brilliant Energy: A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.

Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus.
note that no need for loading would obviate the need for the rapid reload feat. this would be a powerful weapon, indeed, although not quite as good as wraith touch (natural armor).

it is somewhat reminiscent of the warlock's eldritch blast, but capable of iterative attacks (well, it IS +5 bonus).
SephDragoon
10-08-06, 05:58 PM Hm... this could actually work... I mean, as a continuous effect this could definitely be feasable. Although yeah, I would say it would be a +2, since it is giving a +1 enhancement bonus o_O.

Also, I would still say it need to reload as normal, and each time you "realod" it is creating a new bolt etc.
ravenshrike
10-08-06, 11:18 PM i like your idea. i was thinking about adapting the brilliant energy magic weapon special ability to bow/crossbows in such a way that would also require no loading (i.e., unlimited ammo) as perhaps a +5 modifier.

note that no need for loading would obviate the need for the rapid reload feat. this would be a powerful weapon, indeed, although not quite as good as wraith touch (natural armor).

Um, No? The bow on the crossbow needs tension to launch the bolt, ergo you would have to reload.
MaximumHavoc
10-09-06, 12:09 AM Um, No? The bow on the crossbow needs tension to launch the bolt, ergo you would have to reload.
ok, good point.
SephDragoon
10-09-06, 04:55 AM Me and my DM came up with a great way to use this (well, for the use I had planned anyways). The spell is a use activated spell, the use trigger is on reload :P. So, you roll a 2d8 as per the spell and get that many bolts, arrows, bullets etc... Notably, it caps at how many the weapon can hold. So... this worked out VERY well ^_^.
Xeviat-DM
10-09-06, 05:02 AM Returning is a +1 enhancement, but the thrown weapon doesn't return instantly. But since ammunition has a negligable cost (unless it is enhanced), I'd say that a bow which can make an endless suply of arrows (makes an arrow when the bowstring is drawn, when the crossbow is cocked, or when the sling is swung) seems perfectly reasonable.

Heck, endless arrows really isn't going to make the bow any better at killing than just having a bag of holding filled with quivers of arrows (capped so the arrows don't pierce the bag). Thus, I'd have it be a simple +2,000 gp cost (in fact, I allow a quiver of endless arrows as a 2,000 gp slotless item anyway).
Pippa
10-09-06, 05:54 AM Hmmmm, this thread got me wondering:

Say I 'd have a +4 composite longbow - does it give me a bonus on whacking people over the head with it?

No ammo required there.

EDIT: Personally, I would equally go with the power 'bolt'. The brilliant energy description seems to require amunition to start with... it might imbue every fired arrow with the brilliant energy efects, but it will still need an arrow.
Kanachi
10-09-06, 11:04 AM Hmmmm, this thread got me wondering:

Say I 'd have a +4 composite longbow - does it give me a bonus on whacking people over the head with it?

No ammo required there.

While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit..
Pippa
10-09-06, 11:59 AM While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit..
Yessir, but that's still good enough to overcome certain damage reductions.
ravenshrike
10-10-06, 12:07 AM While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit..
Unless it's elvencraft(is also a quarterstaff/shortbows a club) or a swordbow+4? enchant.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SephDragoon 10-08-06, 04:22 PM	I was wondering, how could I get a ranged weapon like a bow or crossbow that doesn't require ammo? This is for a very specialized purpose, so an endless quiver of arrows wouldn't work. The enhancement has to be on the weapon itself.
Ocom 10-08-06, 04:26 PM	A ranged weapon must have something to shoot/launch etc. There are no such weapons. But there are spells, there are powers and then... there is the soulbow :evillaugh
Conshey 10-08-06, 04:29 PM	Ok, i've actually worked on this concept my self and come up with a very consevable model. Although it is based off of Psionics, so if that is banned i cannot help. There is a Level 1 Power called bolt, which creates a few short lived bolts or arrows. Now apply this to a weapon, and you have unlimited ammo as long as you pull the weapon to fire. I have play tested it and it works well as a +2 modifier on the weapon. Conshey
MaximumHavoc 10-08-06, 04:45 PM	Ok, i've actually worked on this concept my self and come up with a very consevable model. Although it is based off of Psionics, so if that is banned i cannot help. There is a Level 1 Power called bolt, which creates a few short lived bolts or arrows. Now apply this to a weapon, and you have unlimited ammo as long as you pull the weapon to fire. I have play tested it and it works well as a +2 modifier on the weapon. Conshey i like your idea. i was thinking about adapting the brilliant energy magic weapon special ability to bow/crossbows in such a way that would also require no loading (i.e., unlimited ammo) as perhaps a +5 modifier. Brilliant Energy: A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition. Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus. note that no need for loading would obviate the need for the rapid reload feat. this would be a powerful weapon, indeed, although not quite as good as wraith touch (natural armor). it is somewhat reminiscent of the warlock's eldritch blast, but capable of iterative attacks (well, it IS +5 bonus).
SephDragoon 10-08-06, 05:58 PM	Hm... this could actually work... I mean, as a continuous effect this could definitely be feasable. Although yeah, I would say it would be a +2, since it is giving a +1 enhancement bonus o_O. Also, I would still say it need to reload as normal, and each time you "realod" it is creating a new bolt etc.
ravenshrike 10-08-06, 11:18 PM	i like your idea. i was thinking about adapting the brilliant energy magic weapon special ability to bow/crossbows in such a way that would also require no loading (i.e., unlimited ammo) as perhaps a +5 modifier. note that no need for loading would obviate the need for the rapid reload feat. this would be a powerful weapon, indeed, although not quite as good as wraith touch (natural armor). Um, No? The bow on the crossbow needs tension to launch the bolt, ergo you would have to reload.
MaximumHavoc 10-09-06, 12:09 AM	Um, No? The bow on the crossbow needs tension to launch the bolt, ergo you would have to reload. ok, good point.
SephDragoon 10-09-06, 04:55 AM	Me and my DM came up with a great way to use this (well, for the use I had planned anyways). The spell is a use activated spell, the use trigger is on reload :P. So, you roll a 2d8 as per the spell and get that many bolts, arrows, bullets etc... Notably, it caps at how many the weapon can hold. So... this worked out VERY well ^_^.
Xeviat-DM 10-09-06, 05:02 AM	Returning is a +1 enhancement, but the thrown weapon doesn't return instantly. But since ammunition has a negligable cost (unless it is enhanced), I'd say that a bow which can make an endless suply of arrows (makes an arrow when the bowstring is drawn, when the crossbow is cocked, or when the sling is swung) seems perfectly reasonable. Heck, endless arrows really isn't going to make the bow any better at killing than just having a bag of holding filled with quivers of arrows (capped so the arrows don't pierce the bag). Thus, I'd have it be a simple +2,000 gp cost (in fact, I allow a quiver of endless arrows as a 2,000 gp slotless item anyway).
Pippa 10-09-06, 05:54 AM	Hmmmm, this thread got me wondering: Say I 'd have a +4 composite longbow - does it give me a bonus on whacking people over the head with it? No ammo required there. EDIT: Personally, I would equally go with the power 'bolt'. The brilliant energy description seems to require amunition to start with... it might imbue every fired arrow with the brilliant energy efects, but it will still need an arrow.
Kanachi 10-09-06, 11:04 AM	Hmmmm, this thread got me wondering: Say I 'd have a +4 composite longbow - does it give me a bonus on whacking people over the head with it? No ammo required there. While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit..
Pippa 10-09-06, 11:59 AM	While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit.. Yessir, but that's still good enough to overcome certain damage reductions.
ravenshrike 10-10-06, 12:07 AM	While common sense would make me say no, I can’t find a mechanic within the game to support my opinion. It’s important to remember though that using a ranged weapon as a melee weapon is basically using it as a weapon of convenience (-4 penalty) therefore a +5 longbow would still only give you a +1 to hit.. Unless it's elvencraft(is also a quarterstaff/shortbows a club) or a swordbow+4? enchant.