Bows & AoOs... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bows & AoOs... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pallin Rahl
06-20-06, 01:48 AM For some reason I'm having a brain-fart on the issue and didn't see it specifically stated in the SRD (must be missing it if it's there)... but I'm adding a bit of something to the overall question anyway - so figured I'd ask you all :)

Can an Order of the Bow Initiate (who can fire in a melee without the normal penalties ...without provoking an AoO, etc) make an attack of opportunity with a bow, against someone who provokes one within their 5' reach (within their "melee reach" even though they're currently not wielding a melee weapon)?

Before someone mentions it to clarify... I'm well-aware that bows don't threaten everything in their range... that goes without saying. However, if OoBIs can pretty much use a bow flawlessly in a melee... I dunno.

...I have a feeling the answer is still "no, they can't fire their bow to make an AoO, even in their 5' reach". But figured I'd ask.

Furthermore, is there any feat that allows an archer to do such a thing (if indeed they can not normally)?
John Paul Stoddard
06-20-06, 02:45 AM For some reason I'm having a brain-fart on the issue and didn't see it specifically stated in the SRD (must be missing it if it's there)... but I'm adding a bit of something to the overall question anyway - so figured I'd ask you all :)

Can an Order of the Bow Initiate (who can fire in a melee without the normal penalties ...without provoking an AoO, etc) make an attack of opportunity with a bow, against someone who provokes one within their 5' reach (within their "melee reach" even though they're currently not wielding a melee weapon)?

Before someone mentions it to clarify... I'm well-aware that bows don't threaten everything in their range... that goes without saying. However, if OoBIs can pretty much use a bow flawlessly in a melee... I dunno.

...I have a feeling the answer is still "no, they can't fire their bow to make an AoO, even in their 5' reach". But figured I'd ask.

Furthermore, is there any feat that allows an archer to do such a thing (if indeed they can not normally)?

"An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack"
"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack"
"Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more."

AoO can only be made with Melee Weapons.
The Quotes Above come from the SRD.

I am Unaware any feats that might allow it from other books, but their ain't any in the PHB and DMG
camble
06-20-06, 02:47 AM Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;)
John Paul Stoddard
06-20-06, 02:57 AM Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;)

An Arrow/bolt can be used as a Melee Weapon, thus you can use it to threaten a square and make an attack of oppertunity as long as its used as a melee weapon and not fired from a bow/crossbow..look at the equipment chart it gives the improvised damage.
camble
06-20-06, 03:02 AM I know that is why I advised him of it but I wouldn't pull it out on the DM with out talking with him first. Especially If he wants to use it as a continues tactic. Once is cool but do it all the time it becomes in my opinion kind of cheesey. Since you can't pull a dagger out as a free action and stab someone with out a feat but you can use a arrow to do it :nonono:
AkaKageWarrior
06-20-06, 03:29 AM Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;)

good idea, but you only have free actions when it's your turn, which is usually not the case when you can make an AoO.

to the OP's question, I'd say no, due to the quotes from SRD.

AoO with ranged weapons sounds like an epic feat to me. very epic.

AKW
camble
06-20-06, 03:34 AM You can only do a free action during your turn. So at the end of your turn pull a arrow out of the quiver to "READY" your next shoot :schemes:
The only thing that could possibly ruin this as a tactical option is that a DM can limit the number of free action that are available in a round. Since there is no hard fast rule on the subject. Allowing a charater to pull ammunition out to cover all of there attacks should be a no brainer but allowing the archer the oppurtunity to pull another arrow out to keep in hand for the next round could be vetoed by the DM
ezreal2001
06-20-06, 08:57 AM You probably knew this already, but if your PC can cast Arrowmind (Spell Compendium p15: Wiz 1, Ranger 1) then by casting the spell, they threaten surounding squares and execute AoOs.

not bad for a first level spell.
tarkin
06-20-06, 10:33 AM 1) He is specifically talking about someone with the Prestige class Order of the bow.

2) He thinks he is getting the ability to take AoO's as one of the Prestige Class abilities.

3) He is incorrect, the Order of the Bow does not do that.

4) There is however ANOTHER Prestige Class, that does have that ability. I think it may have been called the Peerless Archer, but am not sure, mymemory fails me now.
LordBritish2
06-20-06, 10:59 AM The Order of Bow does not give that ability. Arrowmind and the PrC Peerless Archer or Deepwood Sniper (can't remember which) grant the ability. Also the Arrow Deamon from MM3 has the ability to take AoO with his bow and also is immune to the AoO for using a bow. (I played one once in an epic game, he was so fun :schemes: :schemes: )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 06-20-06, 01:48 AM	For some reason I'm having a brain-fart on the issue and didn't see it specifically stated in the SRD (must be missing it if it's there)... but I'm adding a bit of something to the overall question anyway - so figured I'd ask you all :) Can an Order of the Bow Initiate (who can fire in a melee without the normal penalties ...without provoking an AoO, etc) make an attack of opportunity with a bow, against someone who provokes one within their 5' reach (within their "melee reach" even though they're currently not wielding a melee weapon)? Before someone mentions it to clarify... I'm well-aware that bows don't threaten everything in their range... that goes without saying. However, if OoBIs can pretty much use a bow flawlessly in a melee... I dunno. ...I have a feeling the answer is still "no, they can't fire their bow to make an AoO, even in their 5' reach". But figured I'd ask. Furthermore, is there any feat that allows an archer to do such a thing (if indeed they can not normally)?
John Paul Stoddard 06-20-06, 02:45 AM	For some reason I'm having a brain-fart on the issue and didn't see it specifically stated in the SRD (must be missing it if it's there)... but I'm adding a bit of something to the overall question anyway - so figured I'd ask you all :) Can an Order of the Bow Initiate (who can fire in a melee without the normal penalties ...without provoking an AoO, etc) make an attack of opportunity with a bow, against someone who provokes one within their 5' reach (within their "melee reach" even though they're currently not wielding a melee weapon)? Before someone mentions it to clarify... I'm well-aware that bows don't threaten everything in their range... that goes without saying. However, if OoBIs can pretty much use a bow flawlessly in a melee... I dunno. ...I have a feeling the answer is still "no, they can't fire their bow to make an AoO, even in their 5' reach". But figured I'd ask. Furthermore, is there any feat that allows an archer to do such a thing (if indeed they can not normally)? "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack" "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack" "Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more." AoO can only be made with Melee Weapons. The Quotes Above come from the SRD. I am Unaware any feats that might allow it from other books, but their ain't any in the PHB and DMG
camble 06-20-06, 02:47 AM	Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;)
John Paul Stoddard 06-20-06, 02:57 AM	Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;) An Arrow/bolt can be used as a Melee Weapon, thus you can use it to threaten a square and make an attack of oppertunity as long as its used as a melee weapon and not fired from a bow/crossbow..look at the equipment chart it gives the improvised damage.
camble 06-20-06, 03:02 AM	I know that is why I advised him of it but I wouldn't pull it out on the DM with out talking with him first. Especially If he wants to use it as a continues tactic. Once is cool but do it all the time it becomes in my opinion kind of cheesey. Since you can't pull a dagger out as a free action and stab someone with out a feat but you can use a arrow to do it :nonono:
AkaKageWarrior 06-20-06, 03:29 AM	Since the special ability does not state it you do not gain the ability to make AoO with the bow but you might be able to use your arrows. It is a free action to draw. Use it as a improvised weapon ala legolas :D I can't see anything wrong with it but I would run it past your DM first though ;) good idea, but you only have free actions when it's your turn, which is usually not the case when you can make an AoO. to the OP's question, I'd say no, due to the quotes from SRD. AoO with ranged weapons sounds like an epic feat to me. very epic. AKW
camble 06-20-06, 03:34 AM	You can only do a free action during your turn. So at the end of your turn pull a arrow out of the quiver to "READY" your next shoot :schemes: The only thing that could possibly ruin this as a tactical option is that a DM can limit the number of free action that are available in a round. Since there is no hard fast rule on the subject. Allowing a charater to pull ammunition out to cover all of there attacks should be a no brainer but allowing the archer the oppurtunity to pull another arrow out to keep in hand for the next round could be vetoed by the DM
ezreal2001 06-20-06, 08:57 AM	You probably knew this already, but if your PC can cast Arrowmind (Spell Compendium p15: Wiz 1, Ranger 1) then by casting the spell, they threaten surounding squares and execute AoOs. not bad for a first level spell.
tarkin 06-20-06, 10:33 AM	1) He is specifically talking about someone with the Prestige class Order of the bow. 2) He thinks he is getting the ability to take AoO's as one of the Prestige Class abilities. 3) He is incorrect, the Order of the Bow does not do that. 4) There is however ANOTHER Prestige Class, that does have that ability. I think it may have been called the Peerless Archer, but am not sure, mymemory fails me now.
LordBritish2 06-20-06, 10:59 AM	The Order of Bow does not give that ability. Arrowmind and the PrC Peerless Archer or Deepwood Sniper (can't remember which) grant the ability. Also the Arrow Deamon from MM3 has the ability to take AoO with his bow and also is immune to the AoO for using a bow. (I played one once in an epic game, he was so fun :schemes: :schemes: )