Bows vs Xbows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bows vs Xbows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crovaxan
02-10-06, 03:04 AM i dont understand why someone would want to use an xbow over a bow except for flavor/low str. If not counting these a bow seems to be a better investment as they are cheaper, lighter, and can full atack without investing a feat.

Am i missing something because im new to the game and made a rogue, hes still level one but because of weight issues and money i went with a shortbow over an xbow.
Edwind
02-10-06, 03:10 AM Mostly the reason is you get better damage for less the cost. A light crossbow deals a D8 of damage for 35gp where the longbow does the same ammount for howevermuch. Plus the light crossbow would be one handed. Then theres the fact that Xbows a simple weapons, which gives everyone the ability to use them (Although I would think a Xbow would be Martial and a Bow would be Simple) so even if your a wizard, or sorc you could still dish out some damage other then spell wise, plus if your an armored cleric a one handed ranged weapon leaves you free to cast a spell with the other (as long as you don't have a shield in the other hand) which also brings up that idea of using a shield and a ranged weapons.
RaspK FOG
02-10-06, 04:09 AM Most people think of the bow as a weapon of yeomen and peasants, that does not mean it requires little skill to use; in that regard, a crossbow requires next to no training to use effectively (knock the crossbow, load it, aim, and fire, repeat), while a bow requires a lot of training to be really good at its use! Note that most people miss the fact that a bow, while dealing fewer points of damage and having a smaller critical threat range, does have a greater critical multiplier than crossbows, and can actually be loaded with special arrows (sheaf, flight, bodkin, etc.) so as to get different results. ;)
Dhavaer
02-10-06, 04:22 AM Mostly the reason is you get better damage for less the cost. A light crossbow deals a D8 of damage for 35gp where the longbow does the same ammount for howevermuch. Plus the light crossbow would be one handed. Then theres the fact that Xbows a simple weapons, which gives everyone the ability to use them (Although I would think a Xbow would be Martial and a Bow would be Simple) so even if your a wizard, or sorc you could still dish out some damage other then spell wise, plus if your an armored cleric a one handed ranged weapon leaves you free to cast a spell with the other (as long as you don't have a shield in the other hand) which also brings up that idea of using a shield and a ranged weapons.

Crossbows (except hand crossbows) are projectile weapons, and thus require two hands to use unless otherwise noted.
Why do you think a bow would be easier to use? It's much harder to aim; the only difficult bit with the crossbow would be reloading.
SamiPeikko
02-10-06, 08:20 AM Light X-bow can be fired 1-handed at -2 penalty, and loaded 2-handed even if you have light shield in your off-hand.

Choise between bows and X-bows is for me choise between many shots with less damage and bigger crit multiplier, or less shots with bigger damage and bigger threat range.
For rogue choosing bow is obvious, as you already have proficiency, and many attacks will mean more sneak attacks if you fire from a place where your enemy can not see.
For low STR caster X-bow is similarly obvious choise.
For strong fighters the obvious choise is composite bow.
(For my cleric the obvous choise seems to be club.)
Rolof
02-10-06, 09:56 AM Some people prefer crossbows over bows for flavor. Just as
an example, if I create a Dwarf character, they always have
a crossbow rather than a bow; the Elf/Dwarf antipathy-but-
grudging-respect is well known, and I just see the bow as
the domain of Elves.

There are also a few advantages-longbows cannot be used
from horseback very effectively, the lower arm of the bow
would hit the saddle or side of the horse.
Also, a crossbow can be fired when prone, thus giving you a
+4 AC advantage against other ranged fighters.
BW0222
02-10-06, 11:46 AM The main advantage of the cross-bow is that it is a simple weapon.

For many combats, you tend to end-up in melee fairly quickly. Due to the size of the battle-map and limited number of combatants, it is rare to get more than a few ranged shots off before closing with melee.

For lower-level characters, a cross-bow may be just as good, since you typically only get 1 or 2 shots off prior to someone crossing the battle-map and forcing you into melee.

For non-martial types -- clerics, monks, etc. -- it is rarely worth the feat to learn to use a bow when you likely only get a shot or two in combat off anyway. Even for low-level armies, the cost savings of a cross-bow over a longbow is significant -- especially for defensive troops in castles, forts, etc. Since they don't get multiple attacks (BAB) and they aren't moving (firing from walls or arrow slits), a cross-bow is just as effective and significantly cheaper to equip 50 people with.
tarkin
02-10-06, 11:47 AM I think we got them all, but I will list them again:

1) Simple Weapon. Many people can't use a bow without wasting a feat.

2) Strength. If you are weak, you are a fool to use a bow.

3) One handed firing is allowed, but with penalties. Yes, it takes two hands to reload.

4) Firing from prone

5) Flavor
Crovaxan
02-10-06, 12:17 PM Thanks guys for all the response :)
iam_bkee
02-10-06, 01:12 PM at mid to high level, bow is the only way to go.

xbow cost you a feat to fire more than once in a round.

mightly bows allow for str bonus. high level makes it more and more likely that you will have str bonuses.

with a bow, take improved crit or buy keen to match the xbow threat range, and still beat it's multiplier.
bikerrule_3
02-10-06, 02:37 PM I personally use the longbow but im also going with the OBI prestige class which gives me ranged prescision which is more dmg and im using a MW mighty comp bow which lets me use my full STR modifiier to DMG not counting my feats which give extra DMG
demonic_dante
02-11-06, 09:34 PM At low levels (where you only can make one attack per round) the crossbow offers more damage potential, particularly for those with low strength scores.
At higher levels however a player must really love the flavor of a crossbow to use it.
Ipsissimus
02-12-06, 02:28 AM and to add to the many good points posted above...

...a lot of characters who can use a heavy crossbow, even myself will run into battle. Fire that 1d10 bolt at the target, then drop it, and draw steel as they move up and close the gap.

Pretty effective tactic, especially when there's usually 2 guys doing it in the same round.
RaspK FOG
02-12-06, 02:48 AM Consider the old French military tactic: two people stand behind a huge shield-like wall (don't quite remember its name); one loads a crossbow while the other fires a second one, then they switch. ;)
serow_#R
02-12-06, 02:57 AM Consider the old French military tactic: two people stand behind a huge shield-like wall (don't quite remember its name); one loads a crossbow while the other fires a second one, then they switch. ;)
seems to be asking for a fireball ~LOL~
in D&D anyway ~
Jaeron Dalur
02-12-06, 04:01 AM Other than no-one seems to have printed a book with it in it, why couldn't you make a crossbow with a higher pull weight than normal? How about something like a "Steel Prod Heavy/Light/Repeating Crossbow"? You could make it like the Composite Long/Shortbow with the caveat that you dont need the STR bonus to load them (and maybe double the price in comparison to a composite bow to offset the benifits).
hurricane kaisha
02-12-06, 04:21 AM a couple more conciderations: manueverability, and concealability
xbows are much more versitile in cramped spaces(for instance a typical dungeon corridor, or narrow city alley). they're also typically easier to smuggle into places where weapons aren't allowed.

I could start a whole arguement about why elves - who live in forests where the line of sight is extremely limited by the surrounding trees - are concidered experts with the bow instead of the xbow(which is better suited to such an environment), but i'll let it slide for now.
AlanBruce
02-12-06, 07:35 AM Don't crossbows take a full round action to reload? At early levels, that spells murder for the character using that weapon, should he find himself in melee.
Anshin Mandango
02-12-06, 12:59 PM that's just heavy Xbows, light and hand Xbows only take a move action
Mirtek
02-12-06, 01:30 PM At higher levels however a player must really love the flavor of a crossbow to use it. Or simply lack martial weapon proficiency :P
Blaque
02-12-06, 03:08 PM Being Str 10, and probably not betting on getting the buffs from your casters when they go to the melee characters first, it hink would also result in this:)

Stuff.
Morotis
02-12-06, 03:24 PM I think everyone's forgetting that you couldn't attach a bayonet to a bow, but It wouldn't be crazy to place one on a Xbow... well I guess you could but a bayonet type thingy on a bow but then I'de go insane....
Squaba
02-12-06, 05:19 PM On top of having a higher damage and a better threat range a Crossbow also has the added benefit of superior range. Not many people care to greatly about range in this game but a low level monsters equipped with heavy crossbows and a leader intelligent enough to make them take advantage of at least a 10 foot greater range increment might pose at the very least a minor threat for lower level PCs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crovaxan 02-10-06, 03:04 AM	i dont understand why someone would want to use an xbow over a bow except for flavor/low str. If not counting these a bow seems to be a better investment as they are cheaper, lighter, and can full atack without investing a feat. Am i missing something because im new to the game and made a rogue, hes still level one but because of weight issues and money i went with a shortbow over an xbow.
Edwind 02-10-06, 03:10 AM	Mostly the reason is you get better damage for less the cost. A light crossbow deals a D8 of damage for 35gp where the longbow does the same ammount for howevermuch. Plus the light crossbow would be one handed. Then theres the fact that Xbows a simple weapons, which gives everyone the ability to use them (Although I would think a Xbow would be Martial and a Bow would be Simple) so even if your a wizard, or sorc you could still dish out some damage other then spell wise, plus if your an armored cleric a one handed ranged weapon leaves you free to cast a spell with the other (as long as you don't have a shield in the other hand) which also brings up that idea of using a shield and a ranged weapons.
RaspK FOG 02-10-06, 04:09 AM	Most people think of the bow as a weapon of yeomen and peasants, that does not mean it requires little skill to use; in that regard, a crossbow requires next to no training to use effectively (knock the crossbow, load it, aim, and fire, repeat), while a bow requires a lot of training to be really good at its use! Note that most people miss the fact that a bow, while dealing fewer points of damage and having a smaller critical threat range, does have a greater critical multiplier than crossbows, and can actually be loaded with special arrows (sheaf, flight, bodkin, etc.) so as to get different results. ;)
Dhavaer 02-10-06, 04:22 AM	Mostly the reason is you get better damage for less the cost. A light crossbow deals a D8 of damage for 35gp where the longbow does the same ammount for howevermuch. Plus the light crossbow would be one handed. Then theres the fact that Xbows a simple weapons, which gives everyone the ability to use them (Although I would think a Xbow would be Martial and a Bow would be Simple) so even if your a wizard, or sorc you could still dish out some damage other then spell wise, plus if your an armored cleric a one handed ranged weapon leaves you free to cast a spell with the other (as long as you don't have a shield in the other hand) which also brings up that idea of using a shield and a ranged weapons. Crossbows (except hand crossbows) are projectile weapons, and thus require two hands to use unless otherwise noted. Why do you think a bow would be easier to use? It's much harder to aim; the only difficult bit with the crossbow would be reloading.
SamiPeikko 02-10-06, 08:20 AM	Light X-bow can be fired 1-handed at -2 penalty, and loaded 2-handed even if you have light shield in your off-hand. Choise between bows and X-bows is for me choise between many shots with less damage and bigger crit multiplier, or less shots with bigger damage and bigger threat range. For rogue choosing bow is obvious, as you already have proficiency, and many attacks will mean more sneak attacks if you fire from a place where your enemy can not see. For low STR caster X-bow is similarly obvious choise. For strong fighters the obvious choise is composite bow. (For my cleric the obvous choise seems to be club.)
Rolof 02-10-06, 09:56 AM	Some people prefer crossbows over bows for flavor. Just as an example, if I create a Dwarf character, they always have a crossbow rather than a bow; the Elf/Dwarf antipathy-but- grudging-respect is well known, and I just see the bow as the domain of Elves. There are also a few advantages-longbows cannot be used from horseback very effectively, the lower arm of the bow would hit the saddle or side of the horse. Also, a crossbow can be fired when prone, thus giving you a +4 AC advantage against other ranged fighters.
BW0222 02-10-06, 11:46 AM	The main advantage of the cross-bow is that it is a simple weapon. For many combats, you tend to end-up in melee fairly quickly. Due to the size of the battle-map and limited number of combatants, it is rare to get more than a few ranged shots off before closing with melee. For lower-level characters, a cross-bow may be just as good, since you typically only get 1 or 2 shots off prior to someone crossing the battle-map and forcing you into melee. For non-martial types -- clerics, monks, etc. -- it is rarely worth the feat to learn to use a bow when you likely only get a shot or two in combat off anyway. Even for low-level armies, the cost savings of a cross-bow over a longbow is significant -- especially for defensive troops in castles, forts, etc. Since they don't get multiple attacks (BAB) and they aren't moving (firing from walls or arrow slits), a cross-bow is just as effective and significantly cheaper to equip 50 people with.
tarkin 02-10-06, 11:47 AM	I think we got them all, but I will list them again: 1) Simple Weapon. Many people can't use a bow without wasting a feat. 2) Strength. If you are weak, you are a fool to use a bow. 3) One handed firing is allowed, but with penalties. Yes, it takes two hands to reload. 4) Firing from prone 5) Flavor
Crovaxan 02-10-06, 12:17 PM	Thanks guys for all the response :)
iam_bkee 02-10-06, 01:12 PM	at mid to high level, bow is the only way to go. xbow cost you a feat to fire more than once in a round. mightly bows allow for str bonus. high level makes it more and more likely that you will have str bonuses. with a bow, take improved crit or buy keen to match the xbow threat range, and still beat it's multiplier.
bikerrule_3 02-10-06, 02:37 PM	I personally use the longbow but im also going with the OBI prestige class which gives me ranged prescision which is more dmg and im using a MW mighty comp bow which lets me use my full STR modifiier to DMG not counting my feats which give extra DMG
demonic_dante 02-11-06, 09:34 PM	At low levels (where you only can make one attack per round) the crossbow offers more damage potential, particularly for those with low strength scores. At higher levels however a player must really love the flavor of a crossbow to use it.
Ipsissimus 02-12-06, 02:28 AM	and to add to the many good points posted above... ...a lot of characters who can use a heavy crossbow, even myself will run into battle. Fire that 1d10 bolt at the target, then drop it, and draw steel as they move up and close the gap. Pretty effective tactic, especially when there's usually 2 guys doing it in the same round.
RaspK FOG 02-12-06, 02:48 AM	Consider the old French military tactic: two people stand behind a huge shield-like wall (don't quite remember its name); one loads a crossbow while the other fires a second one, then they switch. ;)
serow_#R 02-12-06, 02:57 AM	Consider the old French military tactic: two people stand behind a huge shield-like wall (don't quite remember its name); one loads a crossbow while the other fires a second one, then they switch. ;) seems to be asking for a fireball ~LOL~ in D&D anyway ~
Jaeron Dalur 02-12-06, 04:01 AM	Other than no-one seems to have printed a book with it in it, why couldn't you make a crossbow with a higher pull weight than normal? How about something like a "Steel Prod Heavy/Light/Repeating Crossbow"? You could make it like the Composite Long/Shortbow with the caveat that you dont need the STR bonus to load them (and maybe double the price in comparison to a composite bow to offset the benifits).
hurricane kaisha 02-12-06, 04:21 AM	a couple more conciderations: manueverability, and concealability xbows are much more versitile in cramped spaces(for instance a typical dungeon corridor, or narrow city alley). they're also typically easier to smuggle into places where weapons aren't allowed. I could start a whole arguement about why elves - who live in forests where the line of sight is extremely limited by the surrounding trees - are concidered experts with the bow instead of the xbow(which is better suited to such an environment), but i'll let it slide for now.
AlanBruce 02-12-06, 07:35 AM	Don't crossbows take a full round action to reload? At early levels, that spells murder for the character using that weapon, should he find himself in melee.
Anshin Mandango 02-12-06, 12:59 PM	that's just heavy Xbows, light and hand Xbows only take a move action
Mirtek 02-12-06, 01:30 PM	At higher levels however a player must really love the flavor of a crossbow to use it. Or simply lack martial weapon proficiency :P
Blaque 02-12-06, 03:08 PM	Being Str 10, and probably not betting on getting the buffs from your casters when they go to the melee characters first, it hink would also result in this:) Stuff.
Morotis 02-12-06, 03:24 PM	I think everyone's forgetting that you couldn't attach a bayonet to a bow, but It wouldn't be crazy to place one on a Xbow... well I guess you could but a bayonet type thingy on a bow but then I'de go insane....
Squaba 02-12-06, 05:19 PM	On top of having a higher damage and a better threat range a Crossbow also has the added benefit of superior range. Not many people care to greatly about range in this game but a low level monsters equipped with heavy crossbows and a leader intelligent enough to make them take advantage of at least a 10 foot greater range increment might pose at the very least a minor threat for lower level PCs.