Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wyrd Bearer 09-26-05, 01:27 PM	In the Ramayana, Rama uses the blessed weapon called the Brahmasthra to slay the rakshasa who is named Ravana, an indestructable demon with 10 heads. From this, all rakshasa in D&D up until 3.5ed could be slain instantly with a blessed bolt. However, in a flavourless distillation for the sake of "balance," this weakness has been removed from all rakshasa in the core game. People argue that this is a necessary change to prevent a party from gaining the xp of a rakshasa in one hit; I argue that it is a bland change. However, I can see from where these people are coming from and rather than just outright ruling for my games that rakshasa can still be killed in such a simple manner, I instead devised my own version of the Brahmasthra and present it to the community for all to critique. The Brahmasthra (either a minor artefact or a high level relic, I ask which is more appropriate) This dart glows with divine energy and is blessed by all the gods. It is composed equally of four different metals; cold iron, silver, adamantium and mithril all are twisted around each other until the very tip is a spiral of the four metals. This weapon will strike true against whatever foe it is brought to bear against, but at great cost to the wielder. Employing the Brahmasthra is best left to when there are no other options available. Mechanically, the Brahmasthra functions as a +2 holy, unholy, axiomatic, and anarchic dart that counts as silver, cold iron, adamantium and mithril for purposes of overcoming DR. Additionally, when thrown, wielder of the Brahmasthra counts as having a true strike spell active on him for the throw. Any rakshasa or asura struck by the Brahmasthra is slain instantly and is unable to be resurrected or raised unless by the direct intervention of a diety. Finally, the Brahmasthra overcomes any DR of any diety that it strikes. It deals damage normally and the diety damaged by the Brahmasthra is neaseated for 1d4 rounds afterwards. After dealing damage to a diety, the Brahmasthra is immediately teleported to a random location in the multiverse. Using the Brahmasthra comes at great cost to the wielder and the event that calls for its use should be dire. Throwing the Brahmasthra drains 1000 xp from the wielder for every HD that the target possesses. ========== So there it is, my interpretation of the Brahmasthra. Comments?
Nuntius128 09-26-05, 02:03 PM	Hmm, most interesting. I rather like it. I definitely was thinking that it should be an artifact, reading it. I must admit, though, that I'd have a very hard time wanting to use it ever as 1) Rhakshasas geerally aren't too terrible to kill if I'm high enough level to be facing one 2) Asuras are Exalted creatures, and thus, if I'm good, I probably won't need to kill em 3)The dart's base damage isn't exactly good enough to be using against a Deity, they'll probably have Fast Healing/Regeneration, so that 1 damage simply isn't enough, in my book, to be worth the action required to throw it. Flavor-wise, though, I do like it.
Wyrd Bearer 09-26-05, 02:13 PM	Hmm, most interesting. I rather like it. I definitely was thinking that it should be an artifact, reading it. I must admit, though, that I'd have a very hard time wanting to use it ever as 1) Rhakshasas geerally aren't too terrible to kill if I'm high enough level to be facing one 2) Asuras are Exalted creatures, and thus, if I'm good, I probably won't need to kill em 3)The dart's base damage isn't exactly good enough to be using against a Deity, they'll probably have Fast Healing/Regeneration, so that 1 damage simply isn't enough, in my book, to be worth the action required to throw it. Flavor-wise, though, I do like it. 1.) True enough. Its mostly a flavour thing. The demon Rama used it against though would have been very much an epic level monster leading an entire army. A rakshasa with 30+ class levels leading an army would make an excellent target for this weapon 2.) In the Ramayana, Rama is sworn to destroy all demons and asura are one of the foes he declares himself against. I've taken the liberty to include asuras as potential victims of this weapon. Going one step further, this weapon is blessed by all gods, not just all the good ones. Thus, an evil hero would also be a likely candidate for being gifted with such a weapon. (Yay for neutral perspectives) 3.) Again true. However, the dart also will deal extra 2+4d6 extra damage against dieties of the extreme alignments that wont be reduced by DR that may be enough to overcome basic regen. I considered adding that a diety struck by the Bramhasthra loses all supernatural and extrodinary special qualities, such as fast healing/regeneration prior to the dart dealing damage, but I considered that to be a bit rediculous. What are people's opinions on this, too powerful or just enough? Or I could change it so that a diety struck by (doesn't have to do damage) suffers the neuseating effect.
Yanagita Kunio 09-26-05, 07:10 PM	Wyrd Bearer -- While I'm stoked you know what the Brahmastra is, the Ramayana is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of it lore. The Brahmastra is also used in the [I]Mahabharata by a lot of powerful human warriors, generally either to finish a very powerful enemy or to take out whole armies. It's design isn't rakshasa-asura specific; it's just the Finishing Move to end all Finishing Moves...I'm not sure one can really put a mechanic on it that would do justice, short of comparison with an epic spell. Translating the mythology into D&D terms, it's a major artifact summonable only by warriors granted the right by a very powerful Hindu deity [greater god status]...Vishnu [often proxy for Brahma himself] or Shiva typically. The only sacred weapon in Hindu myths that matches it for raw power is the infallibly deadly vajra of Indra, which can only be obtained via direct bargaining with the Lord of the Devas [Hindu devas, not D&D ones], who often exacted heinous payment: Karna, a warrior born with invincible scale armor on his body, was required to cut and scrape the armor off his body with a knife to "borrow" the vajra once. Shiva's third eye and Vishnu's chakram are equally deadly and destructive, they're just not available on a rental basis. Depending on how the warrior goes about gaining such favor, he may gain the ability to invoke the Brahmastra repeatedly or only gain a single use. Several famous villains have gained the latter opportunity by performing centuries of ascetic abulations, but in general the priviledge is only obtainable through supreme dedication to martial discipline and the esoteric sciences of warfare [there are many lesser, yet still mighty, sacred weapons that warriors can learn to invoke and use: the brahmastra and the vajra are simply the twin pinnacles]. The matter is not simply one of favoring good versus evil; awarding the Brahmastra is a mark of respect to the mightiest chariot warriors. [note: within Hindu myths chariot warriors are divided into four or five categories of martial prowess--while I can't recall the precise terms, they basically equate to the individual's worth in lesser combatants. Only those within the highest tier...a man that could destroy an army single-handed...could even hope to obtain the use of the Brahmastra.] Furthermore, a warrior could obtain the esoteric invocations necessary to summon the weapon, yet be unable to wield it correctly. Obtaining and wielding the weapon means continuous training and study. In combat, the Brahmastra unleashes the raw power of creation ...hence the "Brahma" nomenclature...to decimate whatever it's directed at. This can be anything from one targets to thousands of them; it can be an area-of-effect weapon or a single target. There are several scenes in the Mahabharata where the [most] powerful mortal warrior [in Hindu myths], Arjuna, is challenged to fight a "duel" versus twenty-thousand-someodd opponents, none of whom were slouches. After a bit of back and forth, Arjuna realizes he has more important things to do, whips out a Brahmastra, and vaporizes the twenty-thousand in one go. In epic one-on-one duels, the Brahmastra is the final weapon of choice for a variety of reasons. First, it cannot be blocked by anything other than an opposing invocation of the Brahmastra--and yes, this has happened more than once. Second, it strikes infallibly in a way that D&D would describe as "Vorpal"...that is, it takes off the head of a single target cleanly. Third, it's almost an act of etiquette to the foe: it demonstrates he's a target worthy of such a terribly powerful weapon. Which brings us to the catch of the Brahmastra: even if one can invoke and wield it, one also has to pick an appropriate target, because the Brahmastra is finicky...the target has to be someone or something of great power, otherwise it won't work. Best case scenario, you fire a dud. Worst case scenario, all of those energies blight the nearby land and beings, curse or destroy the wielder, and generally make things go south. PS: If you want my vote for what a Brahmastra would work like, check out the Epic Spells Necromantic Singularity and Cataract of Fire from [I]Champions of Ruin. Like the former it's total effect would be measured in HD killed: NS expands until it kills 2000HD of living creature...I don't see the Brahmastra being quite that potent, but still. However, like the latter it is a positive energy/fire "burn" rather than a negative energy effect. Also, if you want to go by Hindu myth, the Brahmastra would work against the Lesser and Intermediate deities like the Devas, but not the Greater Gods such as Shiva and Vishnu [the former is shot with one, and it turns to a garland of flowers about his neck]. How this parleys into the D&D world of deity stats, I've no clue. Then again, I don't put deities from living relgions into my games. Nuntius128 - Wyrd Bearer is describing Rakshasas and Asuras from Hindu myths rather than D&D. In the Ramayana in particular the two groups are related races of humanoid evil beings of a power level close to demigod/minor god [they frequently conquer the Devas, to whom they are cousins] status...ergo a far cry from the D&D version.
Wyrd Bearer 09-26-05, 09:06 PM	Finally the king [Viswamitra] decided to employ the strongest power in his arsenal, the Brahma Astra. When he decided on it the gods were agitated over the security of the sage Vasishta and crowded the skies as anxious onlookers. The king invoked, by appropriate incantations, the powers of Brahma Astra and shot an arrow. The arrow went through the air, emitting flames, but never got past the staff; it fell down, quenched, as the foot of the staff... ...this staff which, as you yourself have witnessed, repulsed your entire army is called Brahma Danda [the staff of the authority of the god Brahma], the staff empowered by knowledge, whereas the strength you tried to employ was purely physical, although subtly manifested. From R. K. Narayan's Gods, Demons, and Others @ Yanagita Kunio- Thank you for your comments. I am largely aware of what you speak and yet I have learnt even more from what you have said. I have interpreted the Brahmasthra much as D&D has interpreted rakshasas. I cannot do it true justice but I am attempting to do the best I can to make it fit into the fantasy D&D world. As such, I've interpreted that the D&D Brahmasthra will be a weapon blessed by all gods, rather than just one single creator god. I see it being a weapon of great power, and also of great neutrality, weilded by champions most deserving of it, whether for good or for evil. I am thinking that I will need to go back and make two versions of the Brahmasthra, a lesser and a greater version. The Lesser will be a relic that is a human-made replica of the Greater, which will be a major artefact. The lesser will be capable of killing rakshasas (and asuras) outright upon impact and as I said before, duplicates can be made by humans, though it takes the cooperation of a LE, a CE, a LG and a CG cleric to create one, so they would be rather rare. The greater, or true, Brahmasthra will be a major artefact of great power, capable of killing all but the weakest of gods. It would not be handed out lightly and I would try to keep it as true to the myth as possible. I believe I was a bit too eager (and pressed for time) when I posted the version that I have earlier. I will work on this and post again at a later date. If other interested people wish, use this thread to brainstorm, though remember that whatever we do, we won't be able to truely stat up the Brahmasthra, only lesser copies ;)
Yanagita Kunio 09-26-05, 09:26 PM	Wyrd Bearer -- I figured you might know, but tend to err on the side of redundancy, and also to lay out info for bystanders. Also, I just get a kick out of the utter munchkin-ness power levels of Indian myths. After a childhood of Amar-Chitra-Katha, anime looks pretty tame. I have no problem with the idea of a "lesser" Brahmastra: even in Hindu myths it oscillated in power from situation to situation. Also, since there is a complete esoteric "science" of magical weapons in Hindu myths, there's nothing at all strange about a lesser and greater form of the same weapon.
Nuntius128 09-27-05, 01:35 AM	2.) In the Ramayana, Rama is sworn to destroy all demons and asura are one of the foes he declares himself against. I've taken the liberty to include asuras as potential victims of this weapon. Going one step further, this weapon is blessed by all gods, not just all the good ones. Thus, an evil hero would also be a likely candidate for being gifted with such a weapon. (Yay for neutral perspectives) Yeah. When I picked up the Book of Exalted Deeds, I was completely devastated to see what they'd done to the Asura. That it was Exalted at all, really. So, instead, in my games, I prefer the Blackstone Gigant, which is found in the Fiend Folio, and looks a LOT more like I envision them. They're Gargantuan Constructs with 8 arms, and their Slam attacks can petrify. And then, in turn, the Gigant can control any petrified statues. And, you can feel free to Incarnate them, make them Celestial/Fiendish, whatever, as they're Intelligent and have a Charisma score as well. Though, I do like that you've gone the other direction, making it useable by more than just good characters, and I must say I do respect anything built with flavor in mind over versatility. :D