Breaking Bones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breaking Bones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Restless
12-24-04, 06:52 PM I'm a fan of DND and also a fan of Monks. Please, don't throw eggs at me. Having taken martial arts for three years, I often find myself wondering how to incoperate different aspects of Unarmed Combat into the Monk. I mean, it's lame if it just becomes, 'I punch the monster'. So I know throws can be done my trips (Of course I suppose you could combine grapple and bullrush or something to do a better throw.) but my question is how would you incoperate an ability that allows a monk to grab and break an opponets bones. It would obviously involve grappling, but I'm at a loss of how to make a balanced way to do this.
Evadyn
12-24-04, 07:13 PM Well I have no idea how to include this, but IMO this would be to overpowered for DnD.
Imagine:

DM:The mage is casting shocking grasp on you!
Player: I break his arm.
DM:****.
Lilith's Dark Shadow
12-24-04, 08:33 PM I'd say there would need to be a fort save involved and then most likely some ability damage. Mostly strength and dex and maybe a little con damage... i haven't put much thought into it.

I think it'd be just fine to add in ^_^
tiluvias99
12-24-04, 10:07 PM The problem with bone breaking is the same problem with called shots in DnD. It's also the problem with things like slitting someone's throat, or shooting them in the head at point blank range with a crossbow.

I would only allow bone breaking when a CdG is allowed.
BloodGod
12-24-04, 10:12 PM Grab. Grapple. Opposed strength checks. Strength check; DC Victim's strength modifier plus natural armor bonus, if any.

-BG
evangelion1010
12-24-04, 10:26 PM Hmmm... lets see
Perhaps a feat, no idea about pre-reqs, either that or a monk special ability...

Full round action, the monk makes some check, opposed by str or con and a size modifier (A small creature's arm is easier to break than a large creature's arm).
If successful, apply one of the following modifiers -
Arm - attacks made with that arm are at a -8 penalty. Rule on spellcasting, however i'd say either a concentration check or a spellcraft check to cast with only one hand.

Leg - movement speed halved, balance checks must be made after actions to still stand.

Healing the bone requires a heal check with a DC of 25, and at least 1 point of magical healing. This DC is reduced by 3 per level of healing spell above 0. Thus a cure moderate spell reduces the DC by 6. A heal spell automatically heals all broken bones. Although a healing spell is used to facilitate the healing of the bone, the character still heals damage from the spell as usual.

Thats a rough idea...probably not much good...
Edymnion
12-24-04, 10:27 PM There's something else to consider here.
You can't magically heal broken bones with anything short of the Regenerate spell (broken bones are specifically listed as being something Regenerate does, but no other spell mentions it).

So, just remember, anything you can do, the DM can have the monsters do to you. Do you really want a mechanic that is essentially the same as ripping your entire arm off? Hey, its an attack that makes your arm useless until you get access to Regenerate. Unless you want a couple month's downtime to heal naturally every time it happens.

Best bet is not to put any kind of real mechanic to this. Just use it as flavor text. When you do enough damage to kill the opponent, then you can talk about breaking bones in the process. But anything that lets you do it whenever you want is far more likely to ruin the PCs than it is the monsters.
Lilith's Dark Shadow
12-24-04, 10:55 PM Of course all you have to do is make some new spells to get around that pesky problem.

In my campaign i have spells for healing HP damage and spells that recover wounds and stuff (of course my HP is defined a bit different but that's a different story) since i have fun things like broken bones and sundering limbs and all sorts of 'fun' stuff :D
Restless
12-24-04, 11:10 PM Well, you could house rule it that magical healing heals the break, if you were inclined. I see it as a high level feat. I like the idea of unarmed damage + str/dex damage -or- speed reductions (If the break is used on a leg.) There would most definitly be a limited # of uses per day. Maybe it could work off of that feat that lets you wait for your foe to attack and counter attack when they miss, which makes sense, because breaks/dislocations are mostly done on an opponet who has extended himself. Maybe you do a full defense, if they miss, you can try to initiate a grapple, if you succede you break the bone. But maybe there should be more to it than that...
Lilith's Dark Shadow
12-24-04, 11:35 PM i would also like to add in that using a bludgeoning weapon should probably grant some sort of bonus when attempting to break or otherwise shatter bones.
StrikePaladin
12-25-04, 12:29 PM In combat, you can accually stun an area of someone. You can, instead of breaking their bones, go for their muscles. Just strike them hard enough in an area, which won't allow them to use that limb for a remaining number of rounds.

Having a DC check for the blow, if they succeed, it's fine...if not, they have to been stun (that limb) for a number of rounds equal to your Str mod.

Doesn't seem unbalaced because, why break their bones, or strike their muscle when tripping gives you a proned opponent and +4 to attack.
Restless
12-25-04, 03:32 PM Because the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then frabs and breaks the attackers elbow is cool. :D
Edymnion
12-25-04, 03:50 PM Because the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then grabs and breaks the attackers elbow is cool. :DYeah, but the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then grabs and breaks the attackers neck is alive, and he can tell everybody else he did whatever he likes ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Restless 12-24-04, 06:52 PM	I'm a fan of DND and also a fan of Monks. Please, don't throw eggs at me. Having taken martial arts for three years, I often find myself wondering how to incoperate different aspects of Unarmed Combat into the Monk. I mean, it's lame if it just becomes, 'I punch the monster'. So I know throws can be done my trips (Of course I suppose you could combine grapple and bullrush or something to do a better throw.) but my question is how would you incoperate an ability that allows a monk to grab and break an opponets bones. It would obviously involve grappling, but I'm at a loss of how to make a balanced way to do this.
Evadyn 12-24-04, 07:13 PM	Well I have no idea how to include this, but IMO this would be to overpowered for DnD. Imagine: DM:The mage is casting shocking grasp on you! Player: I break his arm. DM:****.
Lilith's Dark Shadow 12-24-04, 08:33 PM	I'd say there would need to be a fort save involved and then most likely some ability damage. Mostly strength and dex and maybe a little con damage... i haven't put much thought into it. I think it'd be just fine to add in ^_^
tiluvias99 12-24-04, 10:07 PM	The problem with bone breaking is the same problem with called shots in DnD. It's also the problem with things like slitting someone's throat, or shooting them in the head at point blank range with a crossbow. I would only allow bone breaking when a CdG is allowed.
BloodGod 12-24-04, 10:12 PM	Grab. Grapple. Opposed strength checks. Strength check; DC Victim's strength modifier plus natural armor bonus, if any. -BG
evangelion1010 12-24-04, 10:26 PM	Hmmm... lets see Perhaps a feat, no idea about pre-reqs, either that or a monk special ability... Full round action, the monk makes some check, opposed by str or con and a size modifier (A small creature's arm is easier to break than a large creature's arm). If successful, apply one of the following modifiers - Arm - attacks made with that arm are at a -8 penalty. Rule on spellcasting, however i'd say either a concentration check or a spellcraft check to cast with only one hand. Leg - movement speed halved, balance checks must be made after actions to still stand. Healing the bone requires a heal check with a DC of 25, and at least 1 point of magical healing. This DC is reduced by 3 per level of healing spell above 0. Thus a cure moderate spell reduces the DC by 6. A heal spell automatically heals all broken bones. Although a healing spell is used to facilitate the healing of the bone, the character still heals damage from the spell as usual. Thats a rough idea...probably not much good...
Edymnion 12-24-04, 10:27 PM	There's something else to consider here. You can't magically heal broken bones with anything short of the Regenerate spell (broken bones are specifically listed as being something Regenerate does, but no other spell mentions it). So, just remember, anything you can do, the DM can have the monsters do to you. Do you really want a mechanic that is essentially the same as ripping your entire arm off? Hey, its an attack that makes your arm useless until you get access to Regenerate. Unless you want a couple month's downtime to heal naturally every time it happens. Best bet is not to put any kind of real mechanic to this. Just use it as flavor text. When you do enough damage to kill the opponent, then you can talk about breaking bones in the process. But anything that lets you do it whenever you want is far more likely to ruin the PCs than it is the monsters.
Lilith's Dark Shadow 12-24-04, 10:55 PM	Of course all you have to do is make some new spells to get around that pesky problem. In my campaign i have spells for healing HP damage and spells that recover wounds and stuff (of course my HP is defined a bit different but that's a different story) since i have fun things like broken bones and sundering limbs and all sorts of 'fun' stuff :D
Restless 12-24-04, 11:10 PM	Well, you could house rule it that magical healing heals the break, if you were inclined. I see it as a high level feat. I like the idea of unarmed damage + str/dex damage -or- speed reductions (If the break is used on a leg.) There would most definitly be a limited # of uses per day. Maybe it could work off of that feat that lets you wait for your foe to attack and counter attack when they miss, which makes sense, because breaks/dislocations are mostly done on an opponet who has extended himself. Maybe you do a full defense, if they miss, you can try to initiate a grapple, if you succede you break the bone. But maybe there should be more to it than that...
Lilith's Dark Shadow 12-24-04, 11:35 PM	i would also like to add in that using a bludgeoning weapon should probably grant some sort of bonus when attempting to break or otherwise shatter bones.
StrikePaladin 12-25-04, 12:29 PM	In combat, you can accually stun an area of someone. You can, instead of breaking their bones, go for their muscles. Just strike them hard enough in an area, which won't allow them to use that limb for a remaining number of rounds. Having a DC check for the blow, if they succeed, it's fine...if not, they have to been stun (that limb) for a number of rounds equal to your Str mod. Doesn't seem unbalaced because, why break their bones, or strike their muscle when tripping gives you a proned opponent and +4 to attack.
Restless 12-25-04, 03:32 PM	Because the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then frabs and breaks the attackers elbow is cool. :D
Edymnion 12-25-04, 03:50 PM	Because the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then grabs and breaks the attackers elbow is cool. :DYeah, but the unarmed fighter who deftly avoids the spear coming at his throat and then grabs and breaks the attackers neck is alive, and he can tell everybody else he did whatever he likes ;)