Breastplate upgrade to Full Plate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breastplate upgrade to Full Plate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ustauk
08-01-05, 03:25 PM With my character's share of the treasure from our last encounter, I wanted to get him a mithril breastplate. Given the cost of mithril, I was wondering, is it possible to integrate the breastplate into a set of full plate armour later, if I specify this at the time of the creation of the armour? If this is the case, would there be a cost reduction on the full plate later? And would there be any penalties associated with either the original breastplate or the upgraded full plate?

Do the actual Wizards guy's look at these forums? If not, is there a place on this site where I can submit this question?

PS: And for the record, I'm a cheap son of a female dog :)
NeueRegel
08-01-05, 03:40 PM No, armor doesn't work that way; especially the tailored nature of full plate; It's parts are greater than the sum of the whole, so to speak.

However, I would allow this: I'd let you (against RAW), upgrade that breastplate with augmented later-additions of more pieces; I'd allow it upgraded to Half-Plate; (ie, as in Half-Ass). Putting together such a construction piece-meal, would obviously be called, Piece-Mail.

So, hang me...

NeueRegel
tarkin
08-01-05, 03:44 PM There were some rule in Oriental Adventures to do that kind of thing, but not in core books.
mvincent
08-01-05, 04:39 PM With my character's share of the treasure from our last encounter, I wanted to get him a mithril breastplate. Given the cost of mithril, I was wondering, is it possible to integrate the breastplate into a set of full plate armour later, if I specify this at the time of the creation of the armour? If this is the case, would there be a cost reduction on the full plate later? I would allow this. At the very least, it would give a discount on the full-plate equal to half the original value of the breastplate (because that is what you could just sell it for anyway). A generous DM would more likely reduce the full-plate's cost by 60-100% of the breastplate's value. Here's opportunity to role-play it a little to get a better price (use diplomacy, craft skills etc.).

Note though; this would not work if it was enchanted. Enchantments affect the whole armor. You would be better off selling the old mithral breastplate if it was enchanted.

And would there be any penalties associated with either the original breastplate or the upgraded full plate? No. We're talking about a 1,1175 gp difference at most. By the time you can afford mithral full-plate, that amount would not be worth it if any penalties were involved (i.e. it would be better to simply sell your old stuff than to put up with any penalties).
WhiteHarness
08-01-05, 04:40 PM Don't give me that "armour doesn't work that way" crap. Anybody who believes that hasn't ever worn a custom-made suit of armour in their life.

There is no logical reason why you shouldn't be able to incorporate your breastplate (which is, according to its description in the PHB, a cuirass with greaves) into a suit of full plate. For that matter, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to wear *only* the cuirass and greaves from your full plate and enjoy the protection of what D&D terms "breastplate" armour.
Crox
08-01-05, 04:45 PM I have two opinions on this situation. All of them passes as IMO of course.

While in the fullplate set the object that is called the breastplate, it is not the same as the mentioned one in the breastplate armor set ... Phuff [Big phrase] ;) In the fullpalte it is thicker and made with a different technology.

This information is drawn upon other rolepalying systems (i.e. in GURPS torso armor are different in the fullplate and breastplate sets, one provide DR 5 other DR 8).

Other opinion:
Historicaly breastplate armor sets appeared in the Rennesainse (never didn't know how to spell this word :) ) when first firearms appeared and it was nothing more then some parts of old fullplates messed with leather and padded armor.
In this case it is possible to use breastplate as part of a new fullplate, so if I were your DM I'll allow to use half of the breastplate cost as a raw materials cost for the construction of the new armor set.
NeueRegel
08-01-05, 05:04 PM Don't give me that "armour doesn't work that way" crap. Anybody who believes that hasn't ever worn a custom-made suit of armour in their life.

There is no logical reason why you shouldn't be able to incorporate your breastplate (which is, according to its description in the PHB, a cuirass with greaves) into a suit of full plate. For that matter, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to wear *only* the cuirass and greaves from your full plate and enjoy the protection of what D&D terms "breastplate" armour.

I can just imagine your definitioin of "custom-made". The heck with differences in styles, timelines, technologies, and "custom-tailored-fitted-MASTERworked armor"

I'll bet you're running around with a soup-pot helmet and a garbage-can lid shield in your SCA-wannabe LARPing group, and calling it Maximillian Full Plate.

You could no more substitute "any random breastplate" (pre-specified or not!) to such armor than you could the fuel pump from your lawn mower for the one in your Acura.

The "breast" protective pieces of such armor, alone, would not protect the wearer as a "breastplate" made for such wear, would.

I'm not letting myself get drawn into a debate over a subject that is a non sequitur. There is every logical reason to aver that "armor doesn't work that way".

Whether the OP wants to play an historical game or not, is his decision. He asked about what might be inferred from the RAW. I answered.

NeueRegel
Tony Vargas
08-01-05, 07:53 PM Though there are no explicit rules for it in the PH, it's not an unreasonable idea. There are several ways you could handle it.

1) Cosmetic: The cost of 'upgrading' the armor will equal the cost of Mithral Full Plate, less 1/2 the value of the Mithral Breastplate - this is effectively identical to selling the breastplate and buying the Full Plate, except that it doesn't leave a mithral breastplate around for someone else to buy (FWTW). The character gains no gp benefit, but does get the effect he's after. This uses the standard rules on buying and selling gear, it just changes how it 'looks' to the characters.

2) Value: The cost of 'upgrading' is equal to the difference in cost between the two armors. This is similar to the rules on upgrading a magic item.

3) Premium: The cost of the upgrade is more than one of the two above, but, the specially-designed armor will allow the character to partially remove the Full Plate, leaving him in a Breastplate. Since the armor is mithral, this lets him wear medium armor most of the time, and switch to light when that's more desireable (as when sleeping), without actually carting around 2 suits of armor.
minowicz
08-01-05, 08:18 PM check out sectioned armored from planar handbook. it would give you a good place to start. It's basicly full plate that you can reduce to light and medium armor by takeing pieces off. I would let you buy it in installments.
WhiteHarness
08-02-05, 11:41 AM I can just imagine your definitioin of "custom-made". The heck with differences in styles, timelines, technologies, and "custom-tailored-fitted-MASTERworked armor"

I'll bet you're running around with a soup-pot helmet and a garbage-can lid shield in your SCA-wannabe LARPing group, and calling it Maximillian Full Plate.

I'm glad you brought this up.

http://www.trsrockin.com/images/TRakon16_81.jpg
http://josh.mediumaevum.com/AA1.jpg

This is my suit of full plate. I even made some of the components myself. If you like, I'll give you my opinions on the SCA and why they suck some other time. My definition of "custom-made" is a pretty well thought-out one, thank you. I own several other historically accurate harnesses aside from this one. How much armour have you made and worn?

You could no more substitute "any random breastplate" (pre-specified or not!) to such armor than you could the fuel pump from your lawn mower for the one in your Acura.

The "breast" protective pieces of such armor, alone, would not protect the wearer as a "breastplate" made for such wear, would.

Why not? How does the cuirass

http://josh.mediumaevum.com/joshcuirass1.jpg

on my armour afford any more or less protection than a D&D "Breastplate"?

I'm not letting myself get drawn into a debate over a subject that is a non sequitur. There is every logical reason to aver that "armor doesn't work that way".

You're a gamer. What do you know about how armour works outside of what your imperfect set of rules tells you? I make and wear the stuff regularly. What credentials do you have that should compel me to take your word that you know more about how armour is made and functions than I do?

You're wrong. If I wore just the cuirass, helmet, and greaves from my full plate, only an evil DM would refuse to grant me the armour bonus of "Breastplate". Likewise, why can't I buy custom-made leg and armharness and wear them with my custom-made breastplate and receive the armour bonus of full plate?
Edymnion
08-02-05, 12:03 PM Yes, you could. One of the main components of a suit of full plate is the breastplate. It says so right in the description of full plate. Just like a suit of padded armor is used as the arming jacket for chainmail.

You would have to have the breastplate modified to become the main part of full plate, and you wouldn't be able to wear it by itself anymore, but its entirely possible.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ustauk 08-01-05, 03:25 PM	With my character's share of the treasure from our last encounter, I wanted to get him a mithril breastplate. Given the cost of mithril, I was wondering, is it possible to integrate the breastplate into a set of full plate armour later, if I specify this at the time of the creation of the armour? If this is the case, would there be a cost reduction on the full plate later? And would there be any penalties associated with either the original breastplate or the upgraded full plate? Do the actual Wizards guy's look at these forums? If not, is there a place on this site where I can submit this question? PS: And for the record, I'm a cheap son of a female dog :)
NeueRegel 08-01-05, 03:40 PM	No, armor doesn't work that way; especially the tailored nature of full plate; It's parts are greater than the sum of the whole, so to speak. However, I would allow this: I'd let you (against RAW), upgrade that breastplate with augmented later-additions of more pieces; I'd allow it upgraded to Half-Plate; (ie, as in Half-Ass). Putting together such a construction piece-meal, would obviously be called, Piece-Mail. So, hang me... NeueRegel
tarkin 08-01-05, 03:44 PM	There were some rule in Oriental Adventures to do that kind of thing, but not in core books.
mvincent 08-01-05, 04:39 PM	With my character's share of the treasure from our last encounter, I wanted to get him a mithril breastplate. Given the cost of mithril, I was wondering, is it possible to integrate the breastplate into a set of full plate armour later, if I specify this at the time of the creation of the armour? If this is the case, would there be a cost reduction on the full plate later? I would allow this. At the very least, it would give a discount on the full-plate equal to half the original value of the breastplate (because that is what you could just sell it for anyway). A generous DM would more likely reduce the full-plate's cost by 60-100% of the breastplate's value. Here's opportunity to role-play it a little to get a better price (use diplomacy, craft skills etc.). Note though; this would not work if it was enchanted. Enchantments affect the whole armor. You would be better off selling the old mithral breastplate if it was enchanted. And would there be any penalties associated with either the original breastplate or the upgraded full plate? No. We're talking about a 1,1175 gp difference at most. By the time you can afford mithral full-plate, that amount would not be worth it if any penalties were involved (i.e. it would be better to simply sell your old stuff than to put up with any penalties).
WhiteHarness 08-01-05, 04:40 PM	Don't give me that "armour doesn't work that way" crap. Anybody who believes that hasn't ever worn a custom-made suit of armour in their life. There is no logical reason why you shouldn't be able to incorporate your breastplate (which is, according to its description in the PHB, a cuirass with greaves) into a suit of full plate. For that matter, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to wear only the cuirass and greaves from your full plate and enjoy the protection of what D&D terms "breastplate" armour.
Crox 08-01-05, 04:45 PM	I have two opinions on this situation. All of them passes as IMO of course. While in the fullplate set the object that is called the breastplate, it is not the same as the mentioned one in the breastplate armor set ... Phuff [Big phrase] ;) In the fullpalte it is thicker and made with a different technology. This information is drawn upon other rolepalying systems (i.e. in GURPS torso armor are different in the fullplate and breastplate sets, one provide DR 5 other DR 8). Other opinion: Historicaly breastplate armor sets appeared in the Rennesainse (never didn't know how to spell this word :) ) when first firearms appeared and it was nothing more then some parts of old fullplates messed with leather and padded armor. In this case it is possible to use breastplate as part of a new fullplate, so if I were your DM I'll allow to use half of the breastplate cost as a raw materials cost for the construction of the new armor set.
NeueRegel 08-01-05, 05:04 PM	Don't give me that "armour doesn't work that way" crap. Anybody who believes that hasn't ever worn a custom-made suit of armour in their life. There is no logical reason why you shouldn't be able to incorporate your breastplate (which is, according to its description in the PHB, a cuirass with greaves) into a suit of full plate. For that matter, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to wear only the cuirass and greaves from your full plate and enjoy the protection of what D&D terms "breastplate" armour. I can just imagine your definitioin of "custom-made". The heck with differences in styles, timelines, technologies, and "custom-tailored-fitted-MASTERworked armor" I'll bet you're running around with a soup-pot helmet and a garbage-can lid shield in your SCA-wannabe LARPing group, and calling it Maximillian Full Plate. You could no more substitute "any random breastplate" (pre-specified or not!) to such armor than you could the fuel pump from your lawn mower for the one in your Acura. The "breast" protective pieces of such armor, alone, would not protect the wearer as a "breastplate" made for such wear, would. I'm not letting myself get drawn into a debate over a subject that is a non sequitur. There is every logical reason to aver that "armor doesn't work that way". Whether the OP wants to play an historical game or not, is his decision. He asked about what might be inferred from the RAW. I answered. NeueRegel
Tony Vargas 08-01-05, 07:53 PM	Though there are no explicit rules for it in the PH, it's not an unreasonable idea. There are several ways you could handle it. 1) Cosmetic: The cost of 'upgrading' the armor will equal the cost of Mithral Full Plate, less 1/2 the value of the Mithral Breastplate - this is effectively identical to selling the breastplate and buying the Full Plate, except that it doesn't leave a mithral breastplate around for someone else to buy (FWTW). The character gains no gp benefit, but does get the effect he's after. This uses the standard rules on buying and selling gear, it just changes how it 'looks' to the characters. 2) Value: The cost of 'upgrading' is equal to the difference in cost between the two armors. This is similar to the rules on upgrading a magic item. 3) Premium: The cost of the upgrade is more than one of the two above, but, the specially-designed armor will allow the character to partially remove the Full Plate, leaving him in a Breastplate. Since the armor is mithral, this lets him wear medium armor most of the time, and switch to light when that's more desireable (as when sleeping), without actually carting around 2 suits of armor.
minowicz 08-01-05, 08:18 PM	check out sectioned armored from planar handbook. it would give you a good place to start. It's basicly full plate that you can reduce to light and medium armor by takeing pieces off. I would let you buy it in installments.
WhiteHarness 08-02-05, 11:41 AM	I can just imagine your definitioin of "custom-made". The heck with differences in styles, timelines, technologies, and "custom-tailored-fitted-MASTERworked armor" I'll bet you're running around with a soup-pot helmet and a garbage-can lid shield in your SCA-wannabe LARPing group, and calling it Maximillian Full Plate. I'm glad you brought this up. http://www.trsrockin.com/images/TRakon16_81.jpg http://josh.mediumaevum.com/AA1.jpg This is my suit of full plate. I even made some of the components myself. If you like, I'll give you my opinions on the SCA and why they suck some other time. My definition of "custom-made" is a pretty well thought-out one, thank you. I own several other historically accurate harnesses aside from this one. How much armour have you made and worn? You could no more substitute "any random breastplate" (pre-specified or not!) to such armor than you could the fuel pump from your lawn mower for the one in your Acura. The "breast" protective pieces of such armor, alone, would not protect the wearer as a "breastplate" made for such wear, would. Why not? How does the cuirass http://josh.mediumaevum.com/joshcuirass1.jpg on my armour afford any more or less protection than a D&D "Breastplate"? I'm not letting myself get drawn into a debate over a subject that is a non sequitur. There is every logical reason to aver that "armor doesn't work that way". You're a gamer. What do you know about how armour works outside of what your imperfect set of rules tells you? I make and wear the stuff regularly. What credentials do you have that should compel me to take your word that you know more about how armour is made and functions than I do? You're wrong. If I wore just the cuirass, helmet, and greaves from my full plate, only an evil DM would refuse to grant me the armour bonus of "Breastplate". Likewise, why can't I buy custom-made leg and armharness and wear them with my custom-made breastplate and receive the armour bonus of full plate?
Edymnion 08-02-05, 12:03 PM	Yes, you could. One of the main components of a suit of full plate is the breastplate. It says so right in the description of full plate. Just like a suit of padded armor is used as the arming jacket for chainmail. You would have to have the breastplate modified to become the main part of full plate, and you wouldn't be able to wear it by itself anymore, but its entirely possible.