Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sajek 06-01-07, 09:51 PM	A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. This implies to me that the weapon simply passes through nonliving matter like it isn't there. The scenario: An enemy is on the opposite side of a thin wall of a fighter armed with a brilliant energy greatsword (or some other long weapon). The fighter knows the enemy's exact square. Since brilliant energy weapons "ignore nonliving matter," could the fighter launch an attack through the wall, albeit with 50% miss chance for concealment?
Edymnion 06-01-07, 10:18 PM	This implies to me that the weapon simply passes through nonliving matter like it isn't there. The scenario: An enemy is on the opposite side of a thin wall of a fighter armed with a brilliant energy greatsword (or some other long weapon). The fighter knows the enemy's exact square. Since brilliant energy weapons "ignore nonliving matter," could the fighter launch an attack through the wall, albeit with 50% miss chance for concealment?Yup. Long as the wall was thin enough to give enough room for the blade to reach through and still hit the other guy, it would work.
Nezkrul 06-01-07, 10:52 PM	Yes, actually, my DM ruled this very thing the other day. I brought it up as a "I might be grasping at straws but I'll give it a try" thing, he rolled 50% miss chance, and my Brilliant Energy Spear +3 of Wounding hit the guy through the wall.
NerdNumber1 06-02-07, 02:16 AM	I can just see an intentionally narrow corridor being made a kill zone as an enemy goes wild with a brilliant energy sword. :evillaugh
ShinAkuma2 06-02-07, 05:07 AM	The Brilliant Energy ability states that the weapon "has its significant portion transformed into light". I (and several others players, including those that initially supposed this interpretation) would say that the cutting surface of a blade is the "significant portion", with a little more to allow penetration. It wouldn't make the entire blade from pommel to tip out of Brilliant Energy.
ishpu 06-02-07, 05:53 AM	so could you also use a normal weapon to sunder a wall and do damage. or partial damage on a person... maybe whatever extra damage couldnt be put into the hps of the wall too? :eek: :confused:
Kouk 06-02-07, 07:33 AM	If you were to allow it to bypass walls, I would think the wall would have to be almost insignificantly thin, AND the target would have to be right up against it to have any chance of hitting him. Otherwise the hilt or handle would be stopped by the wall, leaving only a bit of the blade able to penetrate - probably not more than a couple of feet. I think the target would at least get some kind of cover modifier from that. It would be simpler to only let it apply to armor though.
Sajek 06-02-07, 09:05 AM	If you were to allow it to bypass walls, I would think the wall would have to be almost insignificantly thin... An enemy is on the opposite side of a thin wall of a fighter armed with a brilliant energy greatsword (or some other long weapon). A greatsword's blade is, what, two and a half feet long? Three? Your average wooden wall is only six inches thick. The game doesn't really make a distinction when it comes to distances between people. It is only measured in squares. The fighter and the enemy may be a foot apart in the game, but in the game their squares are adjacent. However, sheer common sense says a blade that long could easily hit someone that close to it.
McPoyo 06-02-07, 09:50 AM	In DnD terms, I believe the blade of a greatsword falls into the 4.5-6 foot range.
CryoSilver 06-02-07, 09:52 AM	A longsword blade is probably about 2.5 feet long.
primemover003 06-02-07, 09:53 AM	A spear tip however is only a foot long or so... no longspears through walls I'm afraid.
ArcTan 06-02-07, 10:00 AM	I would rule that a BE sword isn't actually a lightsaber -- it still has a metal core running all the way through it, with only a glowing brilliant-energy *edge* that can penetrate armor. I would rule this precisely to prevent you from doing things like sticking the sword through walls.
Chronus13 06-02-07, 10:20 AM	I've always envisioned BE arrows flying through doors that enemies have just closed. Swinging and shooting through doors I'd rank as okay but I'm not sure about walls because like anything could be there. Also, the illustration for the BE axe looks like the metal part is entirely made of energy but who knows for sure. ;)
Galahdeon 06-02-07, 11:09 AM	Ok bit of a question on BE, now it ignores nonliving, what about dead?
NerdNumber1 06-02-07, 11:21 AM	Ok bit of a question on BE, now it ignores nonliving, what about dead? That is actually mentioned in the description. BE weapons are usless against undead and constructs.
Matthew77 06-02-07, 11:26 AM	I would rule that a BE sword isn't actually a lightsaber -- it still has a metal core running all the way through it, with only a glowing brilliant-energy *edge* that can penetrate armor. Does this open you up to some other strange rules interactions? Like, "Why can't I do bludgeoning damage to a construct with it" ? Or, "The Fire Giant's plate mail is so thick you can't bypass it with the brilliant energy" ? Good thing there are no parrying rules in D&D or that would be even worse to adjudicate. Of course there is always the option of saying "It's magic, don't worry about how it works, describe it whatever way you think looks better."
Dark1ord 06-02-07, 11:32 AM	I would rule that a BE sword isn't actually a lightsaber -- it still has a metal core running all the way through it, with only a glowing brilliant-energy *edge* that can penetrate armor. I would rule this precisely to prevent you from doing things like sticking the sword through walls.yeah... a lightsaber (whatever it is) still has to do some actual "cutting" - we see this often enough in the star wars universe... (not to dive into star wars discussions, mind you - that's totally not my desire.) did anyone else speculate that the brilliant energy property description might merely include the "ignore nonliving matter" portion for flavor? I'm looking more at the mechanics (ignores armor and shield bonus to ac) than the initial description, I must admit... as for hitting stuff through walls - that stuff would still have the usual ac apart from what brilliant energy ignores, I take it (given modifiers for the situation in question)...
Gnarl 06-02-07, 11:51 AM	This implies to me that the weapon simply passes through nonliving matter like it isn't there. The scenario: An enemy is on the opposite side of a thin wall of a fighter armed with a brilliant energy greatsword (or some other long weapon). The fighter knows the enemy's exact square. Since brilliant energy weapons "ignore nonliving matter," could the fighter launch an attack through the wall, albeit with 50% miss chance for concealment? It can go either way. Some (like myself) believe that the "ignores non-living matter" is the flavor text explaining what the ability does: ignore armor and shield bonuses to AC. Others believe that ignore armor and shield bonuses to AC is a consequence of what the ability does (i.e. "ignore non-living matter"). I strongly prefer the first version because it doesn't lead to a whole lot of rules disputes (such as this one). I wouldn't want my players to cast tremorsense and smash my monsters from behind walls using a brilliant energy enlarged polearm, bow or whip.
tiluvias99 06-02-07, 12:36 PM	The fun part is when you make a Brilliant Energy net, hit someone from behind a wall, and then pull so that their pinned to the wall. And you know what make sit even better? Since the net ignores non-living matter, they can't cut their way out.
Tamerlane 06-02-07, 12:42 PM	In my opinion, the description of Brilliant Energy definitely allows for an attack through walls with a long bladed weapon (for instance a greatsword, longsword, or similar weapon), however he would have to pinpoint the character's location using normal invisibility rules, meaning he would have to make a listen check (DC 5, +5 for being behind a 'door'/thin wooden wall) and beat that check by 20 to pinpoint. So essentially it would require a DC 30 Listen check, provided the creature was not trying to hold absolutely still or move silently. If he is speaking or fighting, the DC is only 25. Even after pinpointing the opponent's exact square, there is still a 50% miss chance. I think that, regardless of "which came first" the flavor or the rule, the RAW allows for this attack to be made. A weapon with a significant haft (such as a polearm or spear or scythe) couldn't make this attack: the haft is not the "significant portion" or the weapon and stops the blade from passing through the wall. You guys are missing the much more fun aspect of this. Brilliant Energy Shurikens :D (Come on, shurikens have to have SOME purpose after all)
NerdNumber1 06-02-07, 12:59 PM	Spears would only have their tip BE. Anyway a +4 enchantment should have a few uses. By the time you get it, you will be fighting things that will be really dangerous. I think you'll be restricted to sword-like weapons if you want to do an effective attack through walls, so I think you are restricted to 5 ft (of more if you are enlarged). Few enemies would stay in reach for more than a few attacks.
Knightblde 06-02-07, 01:00 PM	Will it go through walls, yes. Could you hit someone, unlikely. I see it as working if someone is trying to hold a door shut or hiding behind a table. But to just be on the other side of a wall, the blade would be so short, and would have to be in just the right place. But it is a cool idea, especially the net!
Regularguy 06-02-07, 02:17 PM	Spears would only have their tip BE. What about whips?
Phalo 06-02-07, 02:51 PM	Brilliant Energy A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This propertycan only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition. Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus. I think that first bold bit kinda settles things. so you could have a spear that is brilliant energy it can go through walls. You could not sunder any weapon ever. Sidenote if you drop thrown weapon does it sink into the ground forever is there a collection of BE weapons in the ceneter of the world?
InkBlot 06-02-07, 03:09 PM	Yes. There is a huge pile of brilliant energy darts and shuriken at the center of Oerth. However, other weapons would be stopped from sinking completely by their pommels, hafts, grips, crossguards, et cetera. In a campaign that recently ended, the DM randomly rolled treasure and once gave us a briliant energy dart. We never used it, for fear of losing it, but it was also the single most valuable thing the party possessed for a long time. We were saving it to get the returning enchantment placed on it. Before that could happen, however, we had to sell it to pay for the resurection of a party member. Ironically, the only person with the funds to give us the proper value for the dart was also the only wizard powerful enough to put returning on it.
Fallenangel359 06-02-07, 03:53 PM	ring of xray vision, lol :)
Sajek 06-02-07, 06:18 PM	Followup question: Can two Brilliant Energy weapons sunder and disarm each other as normal, like lightsabers?
SkyOdin 06-02-07, 08:17 PM	Hmm, well, since a brilliant energy weapon passes through non-living matter, and a brilliant energy weapon is not made up of living matter, I would say that the two weapons would pass right through each other. Maybe brilliant energy weapons are made up of a stream of harmful radiation that passes through even thick walls.
Dark1ord 06-03-07, 07:12 AM	Maybe brilliant energy weapons are made up of a stream of harmful radiation that passes through even thick walls.no, silly. as it says: "A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light" so basically, you're... shining a flashlight... at the wall. ... maybe it's angry light or something.
Sajek 06-03-07, 08:51 AM	Hmm, well, since a brilliant energy weapon passes through non-living matter, and a brilliant energy weapon is not made up of living matter, I would say that the two weapons would pass right through each other. But, but...lightsabers!...?...:weep:.
Mirtek 06-03-07, 08:55 AM	But, but...lightsabers!...?...:weep:. Lightsabers don't pass through nonliving matter, they still have to cut it (although they are very good at this) If you hit someone in a platemail with a lightsaber you would cut both the mail and the guy underneath. If you hit someone in a platemail with a brilliant engery weapon you would cut the guy underneath and the mail would be undamaged
mvincent 06-03-07, 02:44 PM	Just allowing the bladed portion of weapons to bypass walls is reasonable, and allows for PC's to try to be creative at least. An enlarged PC with a ring of X-ray vision and a brilliant energy spiked chain could be a handful, but not if some gripping sections of the chain were solid (which I would probably rule as a necessity in my game, if only for balance).
Banatine 06-03-07, 03:03 PM	Just allowing the bladed portion of weapons to bypass walls is reasonable, and allows for PC's to try to be creative at least. An enlarged PC with a ring of X-ray vision and a brilliant energy spiked chain could be a handful, but not if the (several) gripping sections of the chain were solid (which they'd have to be). no they wouldn't. it only ignores non-living matter, so he could still hold it perfectly fine.
Findail 06-03-07, 03:04 PM	Making a scabbard for a brilliant-energy weapon would be difficult. I guess the hilt would have to slot tightly into the top of the scabbard: otherwise the blade could just flop out sideways and cut the owner. Presumably a shuriken would still need a non-enchanted portion (the hub, maybe) to slot on a hook, or you'd have to carry the thing in the hand of a living creature at all times...
mvincent 06-03-07, 03:20 PM	no they wouldn't. it only ignores non-living matter, so he could still hold it perfectly fine.Yeah (I've even demonstrated as much to tarkin in previous threads on this). I forgot. I should probably change that note to instead read "which I would probably rule was a necessity in my game, if only for balance". Done. Another idea: have an undead wield a brilliant energy spiked chain... which he could swing through himself, allowing for interesting maneuvers (I'd certainly give a +2 circumstances bonus on feint checks).
Sunic_Flames 06-03-07, 03:44 PM	Another idea: have an undead wield a brilliant energy spiked chain... which he could swing through himself, allowing for interesting maneuvers (I'd certainly give a +2 circumstances bonus on feint checks). :OMG! Yoinked!
acide_bob 06-05-07, 03:30 AM	Did someone also thought that a sniper with x-ray vision and BE arrows would be a dangerous threat to anything that live? king's assassination would never be made so easy. wel that is if it wasn't about the "significant part made of BE. But i would certainly rule that a player with a long enough weapon could thrust a foe through a wall. (considering that i try to push my players to be as creatives as they can with everything they have)Still, he would have to overcome all the normal things, like pin-pointing the ennemy through a really good listen check, and the 50% miss-chance,of course. Of course, if youlet the players doit, the opponents are welcome to use the same tactics.
Derren S. 06-05-07, 06:19 AM	Only the tips of the arrows would be brilliant. The shaft would prevent the arrows to go through the wall. You would need a throwing weapon completly out of metal like shurriken
BraulioB 06-05-07, 06:30 PM	How would one carry Brilliant Energy shiriken? B
mvincent 06-05-07, 06:35 PM	How would one carry Brilliant Energy shiriken?With a marsupial.