Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kn1ves 06-27-07, 10:41 AM	Would a brilliant energy whip affect creatures in armor?
Dalthbar 06-27-07, 10:42 AM	Sure, since it ignores armor, but why not just use the whip dagger... or was it dagger whip? Either way I think it's in the A&EG.
goawayugh 06-27-07, 10:43 AM	Birlliant weapons ingore armor (except natural), so..yes.
Kn1ves 06-27-07, 10:52 AM	...why not just use the whip dagger... or was it dagger whip? Either way I think it's in the A&EG. Because I hate the whip dagger. It's a silly weapon that doesn't seem very efficient at not being a pain in the ass to use. That's why I've always preferred a Nagaika as opposed to a whip dagger for lethality, it has a real life equivalent and doesn't make my eyes bleed when I try to envision using it.
tarkin 06-27-07, 12:45 PM	First, let me applaud you This is a good, legal, insightfull idea. Surprising so. (I was expecting to have to give the standard "Brilliant only affects the working part, so no you can't ignore cover or use the whip to attack people on the otherside of a wall") -------------------- That said, the brilliant does not help against natural armor, which unfortunately PC's are far more likely to face than real armor. But this makes for a great weapon for an NPC.
JellyPooga 06-27-07, 02:19 PM	Could a construct pick up a Brilliant Energy Whip (or an Undead for that matter)? Given that Brilliant Energy replaces the 'worky bit' of a weapon and there is no distiction between the 'holdy bit' and the 'worky bit' on a whip, presumably a Brilliant Energy whip is all 'brilliant energy'. So unliving things couldn't pick one up. Which makes me wonder; If you dropped or put down a Brilliant Energy Whip (or a quarterstaff for that matter), would it simply fall through the ground? Or am I just being silly? :P
tarkin 06-27-07, 02:50 PM	Yes, constructs can pick them up. You have misunderstood brilliant working part. See my advice in my first post. The worky bit is JUST the tip of the whip. 15ft long whip, maybe 6 inches are brilliant, the rest is not. 6 is being generous, 3 is more likely. On a slashing only sword, it is JUST the edge that is brilliant, the center of the blade would not be brilliant. On a piercing weapon or blunt weapon you got maybe 6 inches of brilliant with the rest normal.
PhantomTrain 06-27-07, 02:50 PM	Could a construct pick up a Brilliant Energy Whip (or an Undead for that matter)? Given that Brilliant Energy replaces the 'worky bit' of a weapon and there is no distiction between the 'holdy bit' and the 'worky bit' on a whip, presumably a Brilliant Energy whip is all 'brilliant energy'. So unliving things couldn't pick one up. Which makes me wonder; If you dropped or put down a Brilliant Energy Whip (or a quarterstaff for that matter), would it simply fall through the ground? Or am I just being silly? :P Silly. Funnily, totally forgivably silly, but silly. The answer is quite simple. Whips have handles. Think Castlevania.
goawayugh 06-27-07, 02:58 PM	Oh god, not another "how does the "signifigant portion" stay on the handle and not fall through the earth" thread...
mvincent 06-27-07, 04:24 PM	I was expecting to have to give the standard "Brilliant only affects the working partYeah, I was expecting the question to be related to that also. But of course (as already seen) the conversation will always inevitably head in that direction. So since it has... Ring of X-ray vision + brilliant energy whip= ? ;)
JellyPooga 06-27-07, 09:29 PM	Yes, constructs can pick them up. You have misunderstood brilliant working part. See my advice in my first post. The worky bit is JUST the tip of the whip. 15ft long whip, maybe 6 inches are brilliant, the rest is not. 6 is being generous, 3 is more likely. On a slashing only sword, it is JUST the edge that is brilliant, the center of the blade would not be brilliant. On a piercing weapon or blunt weapon you got maybe 6 inches of brilliant with the rest normal. My apologies for my silliness...I can't help it sometimes. :D In regards to your post, I disagree, but I won't derail the thread any more than I have.
runestar 06-27-07, 09:34 PM	Bear in mind that brilliant does not eschew NA though.:)
ShinAkuma2 06-27-07, 09:43 PM	Ring of X-ray vision + brilliant energy whip= ? Hm...It was either Profit! or Cancer...
Sim_antix 06-27-07, 09:46 PM	Yes, constructs can pick them up. You have misunderstood brilliant working part. See my advice in my first post. The worky bit is JUST the tip of the whip. 15ft long whip, maybe 6 inches are brilliant, the rest is not. 6 is being generous, 3 is more likely. On a slashing only sword, it is JUST the edge that is brilliant, the center of the blade would not be brilliant. On a piercing weapon or blunt weapon you got maybe 6 inches of brilliant with the rest normal. And do you have an official source to back up these claims? Because I have seen a brilliant energy weapon or two illustrated in the books and the whole things excepting the handle/hilt was brilliant energy. Indeed even the Epic Tordek miniature has a brilliant energy axe and the entire head of the axe is brilliant energy.
Sim_antix 06-27-07, 09:47 PM	Hm...It was either Profit! or Cancer... Indeed you will find that those are the two most likely outcomes in any situation, real life or otherwise.
runestar 06-27-07, 10:39 PM	And do you have an official source to back up these claims? It shouldn't really matter. Be it that only the tip is brilliant, or the entire blade, there should be no impact on how it works.:)
Irving 06-27-07, 10:49 PM	Ring of X-ray vision + brilliant energy whip= ? ;) Sterility and hair loss.
Sim_antix 06-27-07, 10:56 PM	It shouldn't really matter. Be it that only the tip is brilliant, or the entire blade, there should be no impact on how it works.:) Perhaps not with most weapons but I am sure that there will come a time where it will matter and even if not, I still care about making sure that people aren't "correcting" someone on a ruling that they don't understand themselves. It is my assertation that the entire metal part of the weapon is turned into brilliant energy, as backed up by the DMG page 224 Brilliant Energy: A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion - such as its blade, axe head, or arrowhead - transformed into light. It says nothing about its "working part" and based off of this text I would rule that a whip would be all brilliant energy excepting the handle.
Irving 06-27-07, 11:32 PM	"significant portion"="working part"="The business end".
Sim_antix 06-27-07, 11:56 PM	"significant portion"="working part"="The business end". Which still includes more than just the edge of the blade or the tip of the whip...
Kn1ves 06-28-07, 12:35 AM	I was expecting to have to give the standard "Brilliant only affects the working part, so no you can't ignore cover or use the whip to attack people on the otherside of a wall. Well that would obviously fly in the face of the enchantment's intention. But this makes for a great weapon for an NPC. +1 Brilliant Energy Vorpal Whip would be pretty awesome along with the Improved Critical feat.
Sim_antix 06-28-07, 12:36 AM	Well that would obviously fly in the face of the enchantment's intention. +1 Brilliant Energy Vorpal Whip would be pretty awesome along with the Improved Critical feat. As does a "vorpal" whip...
Kn1ves 06-28-07, 12:49 AM	How so? A standard whip can still injure and eventually kill an unarmored person and, in the case of a Vorpal Whip, decapitate that same person. So how is it against the spirit of the written rules to create a whip that can bypass armor to make the kill shot. +1 Brilliant Energy Vorpal Whip would be pretty awesome along with the Improved Critical feat. Actually the Imp. Critical feat isn't that integral since Vorpal only works on a natural 20 in 3.5.
Phalo 06-28-07, 01:08 AM	Just putting my 2 cents in but wouldn't a BE whip be kinda silly. It would ignore armor so you could do non lethal damage to anybody. But this becomes useless to you once. you Stop fighting humans Hobgoblins and orcs (common humanoid races.) Not to mention the inability to do swinging Indiana jones moves ling swinging across a pit. Oh and i back the whole whip portion being BE or atleast last 5 foot of it.
Sim_antix 06-28-07, 02:35 AM	How so? A standard whip can still injure and eventually kill an unarmored person and, in the case of a Vorpal Whip, decapitate that same person. So how is it against the spirit of the written rules to create a whip that can bypass armor to make the kill shot. Because "Vorpal" is a made up word that was used to describe a sword capable of taking a jaberwokies head off. A whip cannot cut, therefore it cannot take anyones head off, therefore it cannot be extra capable of taking their head off.
Lotus Crane 06-28-07, 04:36 AM	A whip cannot cut, therefore it cannot take anyones head off, therefore it cannot be extra capable of taking their head off. People who get whipped start to bleed after a while. I'd call that cutting, even if we're talking relatively shallow cuts. Also, we're talking about magic, which makes anything possible. Dragons don't (and physically can't) exist in the real world, but exist in D&D. Whips that can decapitate people don't exist in the real world, but do (and should) exist in D&D.
goawayugh 06-28-07, 07:13 AM	A whip is listed as a slashing melee weapon, therefore Vorpal can be added to it. Whether or not it makes sense is irrelevant, since the rules say you can do it. NEVER APPLY LOGIC TO D&D! That is when you start questioning the rules.
tarkin 06-28-07, 10:59 AM	Has anyone here ever used a whip? I have. The working part is ONLY the tip. Cripes man, don't you guys ever like check the real world before spouting off a bunch of crappy made up logic that lets you use the whip through solid rock wall 10 ft thick and strike the guy on the other side, ignoring cover as well as armor? 1. The worky bit of a weapon is the part that does DAMAGE. That is what weapons do, they damage people. The tip moves at super sonic speeds, giving a crack. In the real world, that is the ONLY working bit of the whip. 2. In game, yes, the whip can disarm also - but you can't disarm if it is brilliant (t goes through the weapon). So the disarm argument is bad. 3. That leaves tripping. Tripping an logically be argued as using a working bit more than just the tip. But making it brilliant does not in fact help tripping in any way shape or form. Tripping is already a touch attack, ignoring armor. ------- So, the choice is either: A. The working bit, just like in REAL LIFE, is the part that does the damage. This is simpler, does not prevent the whip from being used in the original manner, does not prevent gaining the same benefits from Brilliant as any other weapon. B. You can ignore all logic and decalre the ENTIRE length except the handle to be the worky bit. This grants brilliant whips far more power than brilliant grants to any other weapon, letting it cut through cover and (with glasses of Xray vision) attack people behind 10 ft of solid rock. The only reason to make anything beyond the tip brilliant is a blatant power grab. No, you can't get a super powered uber weapon for the cost of a regular weapon, simply because you have no idea how to use a whip.
Sim_antix 06-28-07, 02:28 PM	Has anyone here ever used a whip? I have. The working part is ONLY the tip. Cripes man, don't you guys ever like check the real world before spouting off a bunch of crappy made up logic that lets you use the whip through solid rock wall 10 ft thick and strike the guy on the other side, ignoring cover as well as armor? 1. The worky bit of a weapon is the part that does DAMAGE. That is what weapons do, they damage people. The tip moves at super sonic speeds, giving a crack. In the real world, that is the ONLY working bit of the whip. 2. In game, yes, the whip can disarm also - but you can't disarm if it is brilliant (t goes through the weapon). So the disarm argument is bad. 3. That leaves tripping. Tripping an logically be argued as using a working bit more than just the tip. But making it brilliant does not in fact help tripping in any way shape or form. Tripping is already a touch attack, ignoring armor. ------- So, the choice is either: A. The working bit, just like in REAL LIFE, is the part that does the damage. This is simpler, does not prevent the whip from being used in the original manner, does not prevent gaining the same benefits from Brilliant as any other weapon. B. You can ignore all logic and decalre the ENTIRE length except the handle to be the worky bit. This grants brilliant whips far more power than brilliant grants to any other weapon, letting it cut through cover and (with glasses of Xray vision) attack people behind 10 ft of solid rock. The only reason to make anything beyond the tip brilliant is a blatant power grab. No, you can't get a super powered uber weapon for the cost of a regular weapon, simply because you have no idea how to use a whip. As I have demonstrated with a quote from the DMG, it is not the "working part" nor the "worky bit" that is turned into brilliant energy but rather the "significant portion" of the weapon. A whips significant portion is everything but the handle. Stop changing the wording of the rules.
mvincent 06-28-07, 03:11 PM	As a point of interest look at the brilliant energy weapon here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040709a&page=3). Sure, it's just an artists perception, but it's still a picture published by WotC. Now, if some WotC artist were to draw a BE sword, I'm guessing it would look something like Thundarr the Barbarian's Fabulous Sunsword. And if some WotC artist were to draw a BE whip, I'm almost positive that everything past the handle would be all glowy and such. Does anyone doubt this?
goawayugh 06-28-07, 03:27 PM	And if some WotC artist were to draw a BE whip, I'm almost positive that everything past the handle would be all glowy and such. Does anyone doubt this? This I do agree with you on. However, I still believe that the only part of the whip that should be BE is the last few inches. By "significant portion" I think they are talking about the part that does damage, which is the last few inches.
penchant 06-28-07, 03:46 PM	I agree with Mvincent. Its pretty clear what portion of a weapon is intended to be BE. However exactly what percentage of the time could a person exploit such a loophole if you did allow them to attack through objects? BE is a +4 bonus and a ring of xray vision costs 25,000gp. At the level that such a thing is possible, other better alternatives exist. Since the handle is not BE, hurled weapons can't go through walls, and since only the arrowhead is BE missiles don't work either. This means that reach weapons and the humble sling are among the few possibilities for such an exploit. Are people really going to abandon other more effective weapons en masse for this limited situation? The only time I can think of that this would really work is in the 5' dungeon corridor scenario with parallel tunnels. Perhaps used in conjuntion with a tower shield for the concealment, but I dunno if that's legal. Either you are a strict constructionist or not, you can't go by the letter of the law and then change what an entry says because you think its unreasonable.
Sim_antix 06-28-07, 04:15 PM	This I do agree with you on. However, I still believe that the only part of the whip that should be BE is the last few inches. By "significant portion" I think they are talking about the part that does damage, which is the last few inches. They are talking about more than just the part that does damage since its an entire sword blade or axe head and not just the sharpened edge that is turned into brilliant energy. The blade and axe head help to deal the damage in much the same way that the length of the whip helps the tip deal damage.
penchant 06-28-07, 05:23 PM	Besides... "you can't do that" is treading on my fantasy.
Kn1ves 06-28-07, 07:32 PM	As a point of interest look at the brilliant energy weapon here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040709a&page=3). Sure, it's just an artists perception, but it's still a picture published by WotC. Now, if some WotC artist were to draw a BE sword, I'm guessing it would look something like Thundarr the Barbarian's Fabulous Sunsword. And if some WotC artist were to draw a BE whip, I'm almost positive that everything past the handle would be all glowy and such. Does anyone doubt this? That's a horrible drawing of a brilliant energy weapon. Only the spear tip should be energy. Tarkin is also right in saying that the damage dealing portion of a whip is only on the last 4"-6". A brilliant energy whip should only function for the very tip of it. Check out pictures of whips online and you'll agree. I also like the idea of Brilliant Energy axes and swords only having the sharpened portion glowing. I disagree with Tarkin in disallowing BE whips to disarm.
Xeonas 06-28-07, 07:58 PM	Ok, it may be true that the last few inches of the whip are the part that actual hits things, but couldn't you just tell the wizard who's making the thing to just make the entire thing BE except for the handle if you wanted to? The price for adding an enchanment to a weapon doesn't change because of the weapon size, so the actual amount of matrial becoming BE sould be completey up to whoever's creating the weapon.
Kn1ves 06-29-07, 01:15 AM	Ok, it may be true that the last few inches of the whip are the part that actual hits things, but couldn't you just tell the wizard who's making the thing to just make the entire thing BE except for the handle if you wanted to? The price for adding an enchanment to a weapon doesn't change because of the weapon size, so the actual amount of matrial becoming BE sould be completey up to whoever's creating the weapon. No because it leads to people trying to weasel around combat hindrances.
runestar 06-29-07, 01:24 AM	I still think you are all reading too much into it. Yes, from a certain POV, I agree that it does not make sense for a brilliant guisarme with its entire blade made out of energy to be able to sunder other weapons or trip/disarm a foe. Simply since there is nothing to do all these with. However, was this the intent of the designer? It could be interpreted that the purpose of the weapon enhancement was to simply allow you to bypass the armour of your foes, and not necessarily to screw around with your fighter's combat options. There is nothing in its desc which states that the brilliant weapon in question cannot do any of the above combat maneuvers. Personally, I would still allow it, if only because brilliant is already so underpowered at a costly +4, and I see no need to nerf it even more.:)
GrayGuard 06-29-07, 01:29 AM	Yes, constructs can pick them up. You have misunderstood brilliant working part. See my advice in my first post. The worky bit is JUST the tip of the whip. 15ft long whip, maybe 6 inches are brilliant, the rest is not. 6 is being generous, 3 is more likely. On a slashing only sword, it is JUST the edge that is brilliant, the center of the blade would not be brilliant. On a piercing weapon or blunt weapon you got maybe 6 inches of brilliant with the rest normal. From what I understand, the brilliant weapon, Blade is Brilliant Energy but the Handle, where one holds the weapon, is normol. I got this understandment from both the text and the Epic Level HandBook under the Epic level fighter holding a Brilliant Axe, the Blade was Brilliant but the handle was not. However I see no argument on why you wouldnt be right.
Sim_antix 06-29-07, 01:44 AM	From what I understand, the brilliant weapon, Blade is Brilliant Energy but the Handle, where one holds the weapon, is normol. I got this understandment from both the text and the Epic Level HandBook under the Epic level fighter holding a Brilliant Axe, the Blade was Brilliant but the handle was not. However I see no argument on why you wouldnt be right. You mean aside from the DMG specifically stating that it is the "significant portion" and not just the "working part" that gets turned into brilliant energy and all the illustrations of brilliant energy weapons that show that it is more than just the edge of the blade that gets turned into brilliant energy?
AaronDireBear 06-29-07, 02:33 AM	Sure, since it ignores armor, but why not just use the whip dagger... or was it dagger whip? Either way I think it's in the A&EG. Annoying thing number 24: People who say "why dont you just...". The guy OBVIOUSLY likes the aesthetic value of the whip and doesnt want to spoil it with a dagger. Christ sakes let the man have his idea...
VeitSteadfast 06-29-07, 09:10 AM	If what you guys are saying is true, and the entire whip, aside from the handle is changed, then it's safe to assume that the entire blade of, say, a great sword would be changed as well.. That's to say, that if a wall is thin enough, and a character has the means to see through said wall, couldn't he use just about any weapon to attack through the wall, assuming an enemy is near enough to it? Furthermore, what's to prevent the victim of the attacks to just move away from the wall out of harms way?
PhantomTrain 06-29-07, 09:36 AM	So, the choice is either: A. The working bit, just like in REAL LIFE, is the part that does the damage. This is simpler, does not prevent the whip from being used in the original manner, does not prevent gaining the same benefits from Brilliant as any other weapon. B. You can ignore all logic and decalre the ENTIRE length except the handle to be the worky bit. Hump real life. Fantasy Role Playing Game. Just follow the rules, and stop trying to apply reality to it. If you insist on applying reality to it, I demand you explain Orcs, the Wish spell, and the Tarrasque using only 'real life' terminology. And the physics behind how they work. (Having wielded a Tarrasque, I am perfectly equipped to judge your answers).
penchant 06-29-07, 10:47 AM	Hump real life. Fantasy Role Playing Game. Just follow the rules, and stop trying to apply reality to it. If you insist on applying reality to it, I demand you explain Orcs, the Wish spell, and the Tarrasque using only 'real life' terminology. And the physics behind how they work. (Having wielded a Tarrasque, I am perfectly equipped to judge your answers). Why... the Tarrasque is perfectly logical. It was a giant submerged brontosaurus that was awakened and mutated by underwater nuclear testing. No... wait. That was GOHIRAAAAA!!!! Heh. Reality. If it was so great we wouldn't be here.
Anathema 06-29-07, 12:55 PM	Like many things in D&D, I would have to apply "The Phaser Principle" to this. The 'kill' setting on a phaser does not have a uniform effect. Sometimes it vaporizes. Sometimes it leaves the guy it hit with a few breaths. Sometimes it can leave its victim alive long enough to attempt treatment. The Phaser Principle states that the only thing that these effects have in common is dramatic license. A whip that is totally Brilliant Energy (with the natural exception of the handle) is way cooler than one who's brown leather up until the tip. That doesn't mean it should be able to attack through a door or other concealment, but even if it did, I doubt its non-lethal damage would be that big of a deal.
Sim_antix 06-29-07, 04:17 PM	If what you guys are saying is true, and the entire whip, aside from the handle is changed, then it's safe to assume that the entire blade of, say, a great sword would be changed as well.. That's to say, that if a wall is thin enough, and a character has the means to see through said wall, couldn't he use just about any weapon to attack through the wall, assuming an enemy is near enough to it? Furthermore, what's to prevent the victim of the attacks to just move away from the wall out of harms way? A greatsword would have its entire blade changed to brilliant energy by RAW.
Ezurus 06-29-07, 07:50 PM	If what you guys are saying is true, and the entire whip, aside from the handle is changed, then it's safe to assume that the entire blade of, say, a great sword would be changed as well.. That's to say, that if a wall is thin enough, and a character has the means to see through said wall, couldn't he use just about any weapon to attack through the wall, assuming an enemy is near enough to it? Furthermore, what's to prevent the victim of the attacks to just move away from the wall out of harms way? So what you're saying is that the reach of the weapon should be reduced by 5' since the handle can't pass through? I agree, good idea :ayyyy!:
Holy_Beholder 08-29-07, 10:33 PM	I agree with Mvincent. Its pretty clear what portion of a weapon is intended to be BE. However exactly what percentage of the time could a person exploit such a loophole if you did allow them to attack through objects? BE is a +4 bonus and a ring of xray vision costs 25,000gp. At the level that such a thing is possible, other better alternatives exist. Since the handle is not BE, hurled weapons can't go through walls, and since only the arrowhead is BE missiles don't work either. This means that reach weapons and the humble sling are among the few possibilities for such an exploit. Are people really going to abandon other more effective weapons en masse for this limited situation? The only time I can think of that this would really work is in the 5' dungeon corridor scenario with parallel tunnels. Perhaps used in conjuntion with a tower shield for the concealment, but I dunno if that's legal. Either you are a strict constructionist or not, you can't go by the letter of the law and then change what an entry says because you think its unreasonable. A shruiken works, and as for the humble sling, it was only used in warfare for thousands and it out shot the bow.
ToastedAmphibian 08-29-07, 11:16 PM	Im not really up to date on teh whole "Brilliant Energy" thing (As this is teh first time ive ever heard of it) so if i say something silly please let me know. That being said, it seems to me that a brilliant energy lets you use a weapon as a touch attack (Or aginst their touch armor class + natural armor?) Does it count shields in this? Meaning, does a shields bonus to armor class count aginst a brilliant energy weapon? If it does, then there is no way any brilliant energy item, regardless of length, could ever pass through any kind of stone/wood/metal object unless it was being used as stone/metal/wood armor. If the shield bonus dosnt count aginst a brilliant energy weapon, then the entire blade of a sword/dagger and the full length (Minus handle) of a spear/whip must be made of brilliant energy. (Also, the head of an arrow made of brilliant energy has to be ATLEAST 3ft long, in order to touch the target before the shaft bounces off the shield.)
dman11235 08-30-07, 02:10 AM	By the way, Tarkin, what would change if the entire bit after the handle (Yes I know the only part that hurts is the tip (I've tried, I've failed)) was BE? Not much. Except it would look cool. And isn't that all that really matters? It wouldn't negate cover, as if it did, then spiked chains with BE? Reach with BE? nope. My vote's for the length after the handle. It just looks cooler that way.
strife_001 08-30-07, 02:56 AM	Yes, constructs can pick them up. You have misunderstood brilliant working part. See my advice in my first post. The worky bit is JUST the tip of the whip. 15ft long whip, maybe 6 inches are brilliant, the rest is not. 6 is being generous, 3 is more likely. On a slashing only sword, it is JUST the edge that is brilliant, the center of the blade would not be brilliant. On a piercing weapon or blunt weapon you got maybe 6 inches of brilliant with the rest normal. So, my brilliant energy heavy mace, should be able to damage undead and constructs as if it were a smaller mace... I honestly can't believe anyone missed that.
reaper5081 08-30-07, 08:36 AM	First of all, I HAVE used a whip before and it IS correct that only the tip does the real damage HOWEVER, the DMG does say that a signifigant portion is made of brilliant energy so it makes sense that everything but the handle would be Brilliant Energy. Also, the DMG says that only a slashing weapon can be Vorpal and last time I checked, a whip did slashing but nonlethal damage. So the real question is can a nonlethal weapon decapitate someone? To me, it seems possible if the weilder wrapped the end of the whip around the neck, A La "The Rundown", and pulls hard enough.
Johnny_Angel 08-30-07, 09:07 AM	Has anyone here ever used a whip? I have. The working part is ONLY the tip. Cripes man, don't you guys ever like check the real world before spouting off a bunch of crappy made up logic that lets you use the whip through solid rock wall 10 ft thick and strike the guy on the other side, ignoring cover as well as armor? 1. The worky bit of a weapon is the part that does DAMAGE. That is what weapons do, they damage people. The tip moves at super sonic speeds, giving a crack. In the real world, that is the ONLY working bit of the whip. 2. In game, yes, the whip can disarm also - but you can't disarm if it is brilliant (t goes through the weapon). So the disarm argument is bad. 3. That leaves tripping. Tripping an logically be argued as using a working bit more than just the tip. But making it brilliant does not in fact help tripping in any way shape or form. Tripping is already a touch attack, ignoring armor. ------- So, the choice is either: A. The working bit, just like in REAL LIFE, is the part that does the damage. This is simpler, does not prevent the whip from being used in the original manner, does not prevent gaining the same benefits from Brilliant as any other weapon. B. You can ignore all logic and decalre the ENTIRE length except the handle to be the worky bit. This grants brilliant whips far more power than brilliant grants to any other weapon, letting it cut through cover and (with glasses of Xray vision) attack people behind 10 ft of solid rock. The only reason to make anything beyond the tip brilliant is a blatant power grab. No, you can't get a super powered uber weapon for the cost of a regular weapon, simply because you have no idea how to use a whip. Actually, I have used a whip. Although the tip is intended to be the working part of the whip, it is possible -and still quite effective- to hit someone (or something) with other parts of the whip, but to keep from derailing the thread, I'll just leave it at that. To answer the OP, yes, in my opinion you could use a BE whip to attack foes wearing armor. As for disarming, you could simply say you were disarming them via attacking their hands and causing them to drop the item.