Brilliant Energy: Priced Appropriately? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brilliant Energy: Priced Appropriately? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
redraven
03-27-07, 11:03 PM I want to discuss the Brilliant Energy weapon property and whether its effects are worth the +4 special ability cost. Given the numerous other threads on Brilliant Energy vs. Fortification armor, I recommend leaving that particular argument out of discussion. For reference:
Brilliant Energy

A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.

Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus.
Given the +4 special ability cost, the absolute minimum market price of a given Brilliant Energy weapon is 50,000 gp. Here are the benefits as I see them:

Ignores armor and shield bonuses to AC, including any enhancement bonuses. In a perfect (core) scenario, you can ignore the +22 bonus to AC a +5 Fullplate and +5 Tower Shield user would be packing. Not too shabby.
Always gives off light like a torch.
That is a pretty short list, especially when compared to the following list of detriments:

Although the perfect scenario outlined above is certainly advantageous over other weapon effects (straight +5 weapon, +2 keen and wounding, etc), it relies upon an incredibly unlikely scenario in which the target is wearing 50,000 gp in armor and shield alone.
In order to break even versus a straight +5 weapon, the target must be wearing armor and/or using a shield with AC bonuses totaling at least +8 to equalize the damage output with Power Attack (or +6 with a two-handed Brilliant Energy weapon). While this means anyone wearing Fullplate and a buckler is in trouble, one is essentially spending 50,000 gp to negate < 2,000 gp in basic armor. While it is certainly conceivable that NPCs/creatures wearing Fullplate and shield would have enhancement bonuses on said armor at the levels in which Brilliant Energy weapons become practical, it is equally likely (if not moreso) that such NPCs/creature will not be wearing armor or shields at all.
Without Power Attack presumed, this comparison demonstrates an even greater weakness in Brilliant Energy.
Does not assist in punching through damage reduction, unless a (unlikely) favorable Power Attack opportunity presents itself against an armored foe with damage reduction.
Always gives off light like a torch. Depending on the circumstances, this may negate most if not all the benefits of sneaking around, concealment, Invisibility, and other such things with the weapon drawn.
Does not negate Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other bonuses to AC. At higher levels, natural armor tends to outstrip armor/shield bonuses in opponents, unless one is fighting humanoid opponents (and sometimes even then).
Cannot harm Constructs or Undead, two entire categories of monsters. This negates not only the +4 special ability bonus, but also the +1 enhancement bonus. Pre-Epic, it is doubtful the Brilliant Energy weapon is going to be the sidearm weapon.
Cannot damage objects. This includes cutting ropes, breaking down downs, smashing rings of power, and so on.
Cannot Sunder weapons or arguably Disarm opponents, two entire categories of combat maneuvers. Apparently, the Brilliant Energy weapon does not enjoy similar protection.
As printed, I do not think Brilliant Energy is nearly as useful a weapon property printed at costing +4. Sure, it may be powerful in a campaign specifically dealing with standard humanoid NPCs wearing armor and the like, but so are Holy Axiomatic weapons powerful in a campaign specifically dealing with Demons.

In spite of all that, I am not entirely ready to house rule Brilliant Energy into a +3 ability bonus. I was thinking that I would be fine with Brilliant Energy's current price if one of four changes were made:
Attacks are resolved as touch attacks but no Strength bonus to damage. Still cannot damage Undead, Constructs, or Objects.
The Brilliant Energy ability is activated with a command word (rather than always being on). This will leave you with at least a 50,000 gp +1 longsword (and whatever other abilities) when facing, say, zombies.
Brilliant Energy weapon attacks can ignore cover (including total cover) bonuses to AC as long as those cover bonuses stem from nonliving matter - "soft" cover bonuses still apply.
Attacks with a Brilliant Energy weapon defeats Fortification, Damage Reduction, and Energy Resistance/Immunity that derive from special abilities or properties of armor and shields, but not from other items, spells or innate abilities. Armor/shield effects that grant concealment, displacement, or other effects are not similarly bypassed.
What are your thoughts on Brilliant Energy? Priced appropriately? Even if you think it is priced fairly and does exactly what it should, what are your experiences with Brilliant Energy weapons?
ClementWillowbreaker
03-27-07, 11:42 PM It's priced appropriately. It is also a completely impractical enchantment and a waste of good money. Just like a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds at CL20. I have often dreamed of a decent enchantment for negating some AC bonuses without the insane limitation of, "doesn't work against objects, Undead, or Constructs, can't be turned off, and can't be put on a bow". I suggest trimming down its function to keep it a +3 or +4 bonus that you can use all the time.

Say, ignores base armor and shield bonuses but not magical enhancments to them.
StruckingFuggle
03-28-07, 12:04 AM Or if you want to make it +5 or epic, make it ignore all or half of natural armor, too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
redraven 03-27-07, 11:03 PM	I want to discuss the Brilliant Energy weapon property and whether its effects are worth the +4 special ability cost. Given the numerous other threads on Brilliant Energy vs. Fortification armor, I recommend leaving that particular argument out of discussion. For reference: Brilliant Energy A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition. Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus. Given the +4 special ability cost, the absolute minimum market price of a given Brilliant Energy weapon is 50,000 gp. Here are the benefits as I see them: Ignores armor and shield bonuses to AC, including any enhancement bonuses. In a perfect (core) scenario, you can ignore the +22 bonus to AC a +5 Fullplate and +5 Tower Shield user would be packing. Not too shabby. Always gives off light like a torch. That is a pretty short list, especially when compared to the following list of detriments: Although the perfect scenario outlined above is certainly advantageous over other weapon effects (straight +5 weapon, +2 keen and wounding, etc), it relies upon an incredibly unlikely scenario in which the target is wearing 50,000 gp in armor and shield alone. In order to break even versus a straight +5 weapon, the target must be wearing armor and/or using a shield with AC bonuses totaling at least +8 to equalize the damage output with Power Attack (or +6 with a two-handed Brilliant Energy weapon). While this means anyone wearing Fullplate and a buckler is in trouble, one is essentially spending 50,000 gp to negate < 2,000 gp in basic armor. While it is certainly conceivable that NPCs/creatures wearing Fullplate and shield would have enhancement bonuses on said armor at the levels in which Brilliant Energy weapons become practical, it is equally likely (if not moreso) that such NPCs/creature will not be wearing armor or shields at all. Without Power Attack presumed, this comparison demonstrates an even greater weakness in Brilliant Energy. Does not assist in punching through damage reduction, unless a (unlikely) favorable Power Attack opportunity presents itself against an armored foe with damage reduction. Always gives off light like a torch. Depending on the circumstances, this may negate most if not all the benefits of sneaking around, concealment, Invisibility, and other such things with the weapon drawn. Does not negate Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other bonuses to AC. At higher levels, natural armor tends to outstrip armor/shield bonuses in opponents, unless one is fighting humanoid opponents (and sometimes even then). Cannot harm Constructs or Undead, two entire categories of monsters. This negates not only the +4 special ability bonus, but also the +1 enhancement bonus. Pre-Epic, it is doubtful the Brilliant Energy weapon is going to be the sidearm weapon. Cannot damage objects. This includes cutting ropes, breaking down downs, smashing rings of power, and so on. Cannot Sunder weapons or arguably Disarm opponents, two entire categories of combat maneuvers. Apparently, the Brilliant Energy weapon does not enjoy similar protection. As printed, I do not think Brilliant Energy is nearly as useful a weapon property printed at costing +4. Sure, it may be powerful in a campaign specifically dealing with standard humanoid NPCs wearing armor and the like, but so are Holy Axiomatic weapons powerful in a campaign specifically dealing with Demons. In spite of all that, I am not entirely ready to house rule Brilliant Energy into a +3 ability bonus. I was thinking that I would be fine with Brilliant Energy's current price if one of four changes were made: Attacks are resolved as touch attacks but no Strength bonus to damage. Still cannot damage Undead, Constructs, or Objects. The Brilliant Energy ability is activated with a command word (rather than always being on). This will leave you with at least a 50,000 gp +1 longsword (and whatever other abilities) when facing, say, zombies. Brilliant Energy weapon attacks can ignore cover (including total cover) bonuses to AC as long as those cover bonuses stem from nonliving matter - "soft" cover bonuses still apply. Attacks with a Brilliant Energy weapon defeats Fortification, Damage Reduction, and Energy Resistance/Immunity that derive from special abilities or properties of armor and shields, but not from other items, spells or innate abilities. Armor/shield effects that grant concealment, displacement, or other effects are not similarly bypassed. What are your thoughts on Brilliant Energy? Priced appropriately? Even if you think it is priced fairly and does exactly what it should, what are your experiences with Brilliant Energy weapons?
ClementWillowbreaker 03-27-07, 11:42 PM	It's priced appropriately. It is also a completely impractical enchantment and a waste of good money. Just like a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds at CL20. I have often dreamed of a decent enchantment for negating some AC bonuses without the insane limitation of, "doesn't work against objects, Undead, or Constructs, can't be turned off, and can't be put on a bow". I suggest trimming down its function to keep it a +3 or +4 bonus that you can use all the time. Say, ignores base armor and shield bonuses but not magical enhancments to them.
StruckingFuggle 03-28-07, 12:04 AM	Or if you want to make it +5 or epic, make it ignore all or half of natural armor, too.