Post/Author/DateTime	Post
niklas 04-07-05, 12:25 AM	It requires an exotic weapon proficiency to use. It`s in every way like a short sword, only that when you fight defensively or with a penalty of at least -2 with combat expertise, it grants +2 dodge bonus to AC. Question 1: Would I benefit from double AC bonus by using two of these? It IS dodge bonus...but I dunno. Question 2: You think it would be O.K. if I took this weapon`s stats and changed the damage type from piercing to slashing? The thing is, I want a character wielding 2 big Chakrams(not like the one in the Arms and Equipment Guide, this one is a melee weapon) and I like this sword`s stats, but it wouldnīt make sense for the chakrams to be piercing weapons. So, you think it would be O.K to change the damage type?
Rulebook 04-07-05, 12:36 AM	its a dodge bonus. it stacks. i was thinking thats a bit odd myself too.
niklas 04-07-05, 12:39 AM	So...no to the damage type change? Cause if slashing weapons have some enormous advantage over piercing weapons...I donīt see it.
Vahenir 04-07-05, 12:47 AM	Change the damage type all you want. It doesn't really matter. It effects almost nothing, when it comes down to it. Slashing weapons have no real statistic advantage over piercing weapons. Hell, in my games, all swords are Piercing or Slashing, instead of just one or the other. Doesn't affect anything.
Bopple 04-07-05, 01:47 AM	Bonuses from same source, don't stack. Slashing weapons are very slightly better than piercing ones. I think there are a couple of monsters with slashing DR.(or perhaps not) But it's minimal and all alright to change, imo.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-07-05, 01:52 AM	In my opinion, I'd change it to a shield bonus to AC.
spyderfreek 04-07-05, 01:57 AM	Bonuses from same source, don't stack. EXCEPT dodge bonuses do stack... says so somewhere I cannot remember off hand
Bopple 04-07-05, 02:34 AM	Yes, dodge bonuses do stack, with dodge bonuses from other sources. But they don't stack with those from the same source. For example, you can benefit from this sword and from dodge feat. But not from two swords of these.
PhaedrusXY 04-07-05, 03:08 AM	Edit: Nevermind, I found the relevant section. :P or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, aboveBopple is right. They wouldn't stack.
Thelon Fairblade 04-07-05, 10:08 AM	Half-heartedly disagree. All dodge bonuses stack. Wielding two of these swords is already feat intensive (Exotic, TWF), I don't think I'd have a problem with both bonuses stacking. (At least, not until I GM'd it.) But considering the -2 or -4 BAB loss to trigger the effect will affect the attacks of both weapons, I can see allowing the defense from both weapons too. As for slashing vs piercing: Zombies, a common low-level monster, have DR 5/slashing. I'm not aware of anything with DR x/piercing, but piercing weapons are the only ones that work normally underwater. Personally as a DM, I'd allow the change of damage type without reservation.
bjorntfh 04-07-05, 10:23 AM	They would stack because it's two seperate weapons. It's not the same source, just like having two defending weapons stacks (since it specifically states that it does.)
Bopple 04-07-05, 11:49 AM	No. 'Same source' doesn't mean that it should be from one same thing. Actually, if it's one same thing, there can be no bonus to stack, in the first place. Furthermore, the description of defending weapon, states that its bonus stack with all other bonus. That's why people think defending weapon's bonus stack with another defending weapon. Thus, it's a different case.(btw don't forget there is a possibility that it's merely reminding us of stackability of unnamed bonus, not meaning you can benefit from 2 defending weapons)
bjorntfh 04-07-05, 11:56 AM	If you're using two defensive weapons then there is no reason, especially by the RAW, that they wouldn't stack. The swords each provide a +2 dodge bonus, regardless of what the other is doing. From the same source means you can't have 2 gloves of dexterity on or 2 mage armors on. Having two weapons means two seperate sources, not a single source being used twice.
niklas 04-07-05, 06:40 PM	Does anyone have any BOOK-like information about this? Cause I should know pretty soon if my swords would both benefit me or not. Also, thanks for the opinions on the damage type question. I will change it =)
PhaedrusXY 04-07-05, 08:14 PM	Does anyone have any BOOK-like information about this? Cause I should know pretty soon if my swords would both benefit me or not. Also, thanks for the opinions on the damage type question. I will change it =)The most direct evidence I can find in the SRD that implies that they don't stack is: Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above). This is from the Combining Magical Effects section of the SRD, but the phrase in parenthesis implies that it also applies to non-magical bonuses. It's certainly not bullet-proof, but after reading through it and the other relevant parts of the SRD, I tend to agree with Bopple. (I didn't initially.) I don't think it would be overpowering to let them stack, however. It's only a +2 bonus, after all.
Welt 04-07-05, 11:46 PM	The actual description of the broadblade short sword is very poorly worded, but, as written, the dodge bonus wouldn't stack. The relevant portion: If you are proficient with the broadblade short sword and you fight defensively or emply the total defense combat meneuver, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the rest of the round in addition to the normal AC bonus from the combat maneuver. Note, it simply qualifies "if you are proficient;" it never once mentions that you actually have wield the damn thing to get the bonus. By the RAW, it doesn't matter if you wield one, two, or no broadblades, if you are proficient and fight defensively, you get +2 to AC.
Thelon Fairblade 04-08-05, 10:11 AM	(I'm going to ignore Welt's trip into munchkin-land... :D ) From the SRD (Combat I), emphasis mine: Dodge Bonuses: Some other AC bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. These bonuses are called dodge bonuses. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other. The "same source" comment applies to unnamed bonuses. Named bonuses don't stack ever, except DODGE bonuses, which always stack. Combat Expertise + Fight Defensively stacks; and they stack with the Dodge feat, and they stack with DEX bonus... all dodge bonuses.
Grigori 04-08-05, 10:15 AM	So...no to the damage type change? Cause if slashing weapons have some enormous advantage over piercing weapons...I donīt see it. There's a few critters *somewhere* that are resistant to slashing and/or piercing weapons... But unless you're using the combat variant found here: www.wakinglands.com there's no real advantage.
Goat Face 04-08-05, 11:40 AM	One advantage to using a slashing weapon that occurs to me, is that with slashing type weapons you can Sunder, and with piercing you cannot. As for the dodge bonus stacking, I say absolutely...as mentioned above, it is a feat intensive style of fighting. I believe that there should be some reward.
Bopple 04-08-05, 11:48 AM	The "same source" comment applies to unnamed bonuses. Named bonuses don't stack ever, except DODGE bonuses, which always stack. Combat Expertise + Fight Defensively stacks; and they stack with the Dodge feat, and they stack with DEX bonus... all dodge bonuses. Hmm, you've found a loop-hole. As RAW, you are kind of right: we cannot tell if it stacks with itself or not, since it doesn't say exactly so.(btw 'each other' doesn't mean it stacks with itself. it just means dodge bonus stacks with dodge bonus from other source) But unnamed bonus is the most unrestricted & powerful form of bonus. If unnamed bonus don't stack with themselves from the same source, other stackable, named bonus, also shouldn't stack with themselves from the same source. If dodge bonus is stackable with itself, you can get Titan Fighting and bunch of Dodge feats, to gain +4 AC per Dodge feat.
Vahenir 04-08-05, 12:11 PM	One advantage to using a slashing weapon that occurs to me, is that with slashing type weapons you can Sunder, and with piercing you cannot. Sunder isn't all that fantastic. Some characters (particularly high-strength characters) will use it fairly often. Other characters (particularly Dex-based characters) might not use it at all. In all the time I've played 3rd Edition, I've only attempted a Sunder a handful of times.
Rulebook 04-08-05, 12:15 PM	hell ive only sunder ed probably 4 times, and was succesful once. the rest of my group was ****** at me because it was a +3 bastard sword (with other things) that the other fighter couldve used, but he was tearin us apart with it. we killed him next round. :(
Goat Face 04-08-05, 01:15 PM	Really?? I have found Sunder to be an awesome tactic...oh well. I could definately see the problem with it though in a "high magic" game... Either way, it is an additional benefit that a slashing weapon enjoys over that of a piercing. Not to hijack the thread tho. I dont see that changing the type, would over power the weapon at all. Having to spend a feat on the thing is penalty enough. To me, after first reading the weapon, I thought the expediture did not balance with the gain.
niklas 04-08-05, 07:08 PM	Thank you all for your opinions. Right now I have decided to make the damage type change and allow the dodge bonus from both swords to stack. Thanks all- :)