Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RobCfordJr 01-19-06, 05:10 AM	Now there is no way in Hades I have read every single one of these threads, but please bear with me on this post. There are a lot of old school gamers out there, and I know some of you have posted about wondering where the old 1st and 2nd edition broadswords have gone. Some state that they were too similar to the longsword and thus they were all grouped together, etc. After reading the Conan RPG supplement, I wish to propose an alternative to those of you wishing to still use broadswords in your campaigns. I do apologize if this has already been mentioned, abused, overposted, etc. I thought it was cool and worth sharing. 3.5 Broadsword One-Handed Martial Melee Weapon. Cost 12 gp. Dmg (S) 1d8. Dmg (M) 1d10. Critical 19-20/x2. Weight 2 1/2 lbs. The broad-bladed, slightly tapered sword is designed for battlefield use against lightly armored targets. The handlegrip is clearly only long enough for one hand and the blade is lighter than normal, relying on its sharp edge rather than its weight. SPECIAL: Due to their design (shorter handle and lighter weight steel), broadswords do NOT benefit from using them two-handed (Str x 1.5 dmg bonus). Prolonged two-handed abuse can often lead to weapon abuse (DM's discretion). Hardness 10. Hitpoints 5. Please critique, just know that I imagine the broadsword itself to be much like the clevery designed Nordic weapons, which were designed to be one-handed, lightweight, easily wielded sharp implements of death and carnage. I feel that the increased damage if balanced out by the fact that you can not benefit from using the weapon 2handed. I hope you might find this is to your liking, and know I'm submitting this for those of you out there who might consider themselves eccentric and old-fashioned; preferring the broadsword over a longsword. Game On!
Subedei 01-19-06, 05:56 AM	It's a bastard sword you don't need a feat for. Overpowered. I have a house rule I'm quite fond of. You always get 1.5xStr as long as there's nothing in your offhand. Thus someone wielding only a rapier would get two handed damage even though one obviously cannot wield it in two hands. While your other arm is not holding the weapon, your arms really aren't where a sword's power comes from. That would be the torso and legs, which are in this case devoted soley to the movements of one weapon. I wouldn't really say it's even two hands anymore. Every creature has a primary attack and any number of secondary attacks. Primary is 1xStr and secondary is .5xStr. Primary plus secondary is 1.5xStr for only one weapon or a pair of natural weapons. "two hands" is merely a simplified way of saying this.
JulesCARV 01-19-06, 06:02 AM	First, what kind of damage does it do? Slashing, I assume? Also, why does it do 1d10 damage medium? It almost a light weapon, cheaper than a longsword, that does as much damage as a bastard sword. In my view, this doesn't make sense. Unless a character has a strength modifier of 4 or higher, average damage would be equal or higher with a broadsword one-handed than with a longsword two-handed -- not to mention that you can use a shield or a light weapon with it. I would say give it 1d4/1d6 slashing damage, but make it possible to apply weapon finesse to it. It'd basically be a "slashing rapier." Fractional weights aren't worth the trouble. Make it 3 lbs or 2 lbs. I don't care. I'm guessing that we're talking about something like a schiavona, here?
SilentOne 01-19-06, 06:55 AM	You're looking for a scimitar. Broad head, light, curved, and ruthless against lightly armored opponents. As some guy in the real world said "you can't help but lop something off" In my experience, a broadsword is like a heavier longsword. Straight edge, rounded tip, meant for hacking. Of course, without a sharp edge, everything is for hacking, but I digress. The best stats I've seen (balanced) are: One-Handed Martial Melee Weapon. Cost 10 gp. Dmg (S) 1d8. Dmg (M) 1d10. Critical x2. Weight 4 lbs. I forget where though. It's a great weapon for those 1st level warriors, as they're not likely to crit in their 1-2 rounds of existance, but the d10 (d8 for those durned halflings) does let them pose more of a threat. And yes, it does have a bashing critical, for exactly why I said above, and because it balances it.
Rondom 01-19-06, 07:03 AM	First, what kind of damage does it do? Slashing, I assume? Also, why does it do 1d10 damage medium? It almost a light weapon, cheaper than a longsword, that does as much damage as a bastard sword. In my view, this doesn't make sense. Unless a character has a strength modifier of 4 or higher, average damage would be equal or higher with a broadsword one-handed than with a longsword two-handed -- not to mention that you can use a shield or a light weapon with it. I would say give it 1d4/1d6 slashing damage, but make it possible to apply weapon finesse to it. It'd basically be a "slashing rapier." Fractional weights aren't worth the trouble. Make it 3 lbs or 2 lbs. I don't care. I'm guessing that we're talking about something like a schiavona, here? Hmmm - I'm not sure what you are simulating here, but it's not the broadsword I'm familiar with (a Norman Broadsword is shorter than a longsword but heavier). Sadly the very small differentiations in D&D weapon damage don't leave a gap between the 1d8 longsword and the 1d10 bastard sword, which is where the broadsword would go.
JulesCARV 01-19-06, 09:05 AM	Okay. Here's roughly what I'm talking about: http://www.sword.cz/schiavona.jpg. What are all of us talking about, so we can get our terms straight? ;) From the 2.5 pound weight, I assumed that that's what RobCFordJr was talking about too.
Thorak 01-19-06, 09:08 AM	Argh. "Broadsword" is a term with a meaning so loose it's completely useless in discussing a specific kind of weapon. The D&D longsword is a "broadsword" by the most common use of the term. Used to distinguish them from smallswords and rapiers. And all the other minor variations of arming swords and such fall under the longsword name. Weapon equivalencies, people. The same reason a greatsword represents claymores, zweihanders, etc. You don't need a new weapon type for every minor little variation. Especially when the term you're trying to use is one without any useful meaning. "Broadsword" merely refers to any sword with a blade wider at the base than a rapier, really. In D&D, it's already covered under "longsword". There's absolutely no reason to create a new weapon type to cover them.
Draco Strang 01-19-06, 11:00 AM	Like Thorak so kindly pointed out. A broadsword is a longsword is an arming sword. These terms have no set definition. Sort of like the term "sports car". Some people consider sports cars to be small, lightweight roadsters that lack a back seat. Others lump coupes in as sports cars. Some people consider anything that goes fast and handles well as a sports car, be it a coupe, sedan, convertible, manual or auto transmission, back seat or parcel shelf, two doors, four doors, whatever. See what I mean? There's not enough differentiation in the terms "broadsword" and "longsword" to really justify drawing up two different weapons.
jaelis 01-19-06, 11:36 AM	Even leaving aside the question of whether a broadsword should have separate statistics, it is not a good idea to trade an advantage that applies all the time (higher damage) for a disadvantage that is situational (can't wield two-handed). Since a player can typically just avoid the situation where the disadvantage applies, it's not a fair trade. For instance, in this case, a player with your broadsword would just use a shield and get an unmitigated power up compared to the normal sword and shield fighter. The reverse works better. You could make a 1H weapon that deals 1d6 when wielded in one hand but 1d10 in two hands, that would probably be balanced.
RobCfordJr 01-19-06, 12:26 PM	Heh, I ask for a PEACH and get the PEACH PIT! Then again brutal honesty is always the best medicine! The main reason I submitted this information on the broadsword was because I reckon the Conan fan in me got the better of me. I found pseudo-official stats for a d20 broadsword and after reading them thought of a way to maybe make old-schoolers happy. I know in the past I have seen several discussions about broadswords and how the old-schoolers wished they would add the blade in 3.X rules; as well as how much they missed rolling 2d4 for damage and the like. Sigh – I also know there was tons of debating done over the topic as well. I used to collect swords and one of my favorite was the Viking broadsword – it was the same length more or less as a longsword but its width was nearly double; and its weight felt like half. It took a while to get used to wielding it, but once I did I quickly realized that the blade was made to whip around – utilizing its keen edge in an angular fashion (either in an upward or downward angular direction). The blade would F-up some melons and even decent sized tree limbs! Guess the difference would be this: Broadsword http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7169/broadsword6zm.jpg Longsword http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/709/longsword6hy.jpg I do appreciate the criticism. Heh after reading through the 1st and 2nd edition books again, they mention broadswords having basket hilts and such…they're referring to more of a Spanish/Italian style broadsword. /Bonks self!!! Oh well. Game On!
David Berlapin 01-19-06, 01:45 PM	How about something along the lines of a 1d6 19-20/x3 slashing weapon
Tony Vargas 01-19-06, 02:03 PM	A 'fantasy' broadsword - since as Thorak pointed out, the historical broadsword, if it can be said to exist at all, was just a term to distinguish older swords (what D&D would class as longswords) from smallswords (~D&D rapiers) - would just be a sword that's wider & heavier than a long or short sword (just as a long sword is longer than other one-handed swords, a short sword shorter, and a great sword just plain great). ;) Admittedly 'retro' stats could look like this:One-Handed Martial Melee Weapon. Cost Dmg(S) Dmg(M) Critical Weight Type Broadsword 12 gp 1d8 2d4 20/x2 5 lbs SlashingSword, Broad: A less elegant weapon than the longsword or rapier, the broadsword is favored by barbarians for it's power and warriors for it's dependability. Because of it's heavy construction, a medium-sized or larger broadsword determines hardness & hitpoints as if it were a metal-hafted, instead of a bladed weapon. As has been mentioned, there's not a lot of 'room' between the bastard sword and the longsword. While 2d4 fits nicely between the two for a medium bastard sword, a small one is out of luck. Other 2d4 weapons go down to d6 for small creatures, which is a bit unfair (losing 1.5 average damage instead of the usual 1). I suppose you could go with 2d3, instead, but no other weapon does that. I decided to go with d8, and compensate with weapon hps. Balancewise, this broadsword is pretty reasonable. It gives up a full point of threat range compared to the longsword, and gains only a half-point of average damage (actually making it slightly 'weak' in terms of overall damage potential), plus some added hps to resist sundering. The small version doesn't gain any hp advantage, but gains a full point of damage (still basically balanced). Alternatively, the small version could also have metal-hafted hps, and do 2d3 damage.
bondious 01-20-06, 01:34 AM	Heh, I ask for a PEACH and get the PEACH PIT! Then again brutal honesty is always the best medicine! Okay, this is off topic, sorry. I've seen a couple of people put "PEACH" in the titles of their threads, and I'm wondering what in the Nine Hells this means. :confused: On topic: I think that this might be, as other have pointed out, a case of "one name covers all". Broadsword = Longsword, at least in the eyes of D&D game mechanics and simplicity.
Vahenir 01-20-06, 04:20 AM	The main reason I submitted this information on the broadsword was because I reckon the Conan fan in me got the better of me. Then you should make the greatsword a one-hand weapon, since Howard often used "broadsword" and "great sword" interchangeably. Bottom line: Howard was a history buff, but he was also the victim of a time that relied heavily upon the writings of Victorian fencers - who coined terms like 'broadsword.' It has no meaning and Howard used it interchangeably with 'arming sword' and 'great sword.' When Howard said 'broadsword' you can simply assume he meant 'single-hand cutting or cut-and-thrust sword' which is neatly covered by 'longsword.' I used to collect swords and one of my favorite was the Viking broadsword – it was the same length more or less as a longsword but its width was nearly double; and its weight felt like half. Shennanigans! You collected sword-like objects. Wallhangers. And even that could be called into question. Viking single-hand swords are not 'nearly double' the width of later single-hand swords, and they often feel much heavier than later single-hand swords due to a point of balance further from the hand, different method of construction, and a more parallel blade profile. Guess the difference would be this: You picked some really ugly swords as your examples.. but okay: Problem is that those swords appear to be really poorly made, poorly designed, and the 'broadsword' one, unless it's extremely short, would handle like a bar stool. Heh after reading through the 1st and 2nd edition books again, they mention broadswords having basket hilts and such…they're referring to more of a Spanish/Italian style broadsword. /Bonks self!!! Oh well. Spanish/Italian? Why couldn't they be referring to Scottish, English, German, or Irish style 'broadswords?' As you've been told - the term 'broadsword' is meaningless. The type of weapon you're referring to is simply a basket-hilted sword, a single-hand cut-and-thrust weapon utilized throughout the 17th century in most Western European countries. There's nothing intrinsically Spanish or Italian about basket hilts. All that said.. the stats were unbalanced to begin with so.... yep.
Taluron 01-20-06, 08:57 AM	Another alternative for a "broadsword"... Take the stats for the DnD short sword (which explicitly emulates the roman gladius type sword). Replace Piercing with Slashing. Done.
JosephFrederic 01-20-06, 09:22 AM	I wont cut you down for this idea as others seem eager to do. I like the idea of some flavor in my game and I dont think it overcomplicates combat. I like the retro stats listed by Tony though. Call me old school. Ive played every edition and I like the streamlining of 3.5 as much as the next guy but variety is the spice of life. I picture Hobgoblins using broadswords. Its fluff but I like it.
Emeramber 01-20-06, 04:20 PM	If you really miss the 2d4 damage , then just use the longsword, but replace d8 with 2d4(d6 for small). It's akin to the Greatsword/Greataxe situation, where 2d6 and d12 are considered close enough to balance. If you want a bit more modification, I'd consider making it a 20x3 crit range, because it is a little more axelike in its slashing.
Waterhammer 01-20-06, 09:29 PM	I allways assumed the AD&D longsword was double-edged,and the broadsword to be single-edged. There is a picture by DAT in the back of the the original PHB of the two differing blades. That's just the way I saw the issue, not to say it's right or anything. I never armed a PC with a broadsword, but they were great for NPC hirelings. Less expensive and a minimum of two(2) points Dmg. The drawback was they only did 2d4 vs. large creatures, while a long sword did 1d12.
DMDaddy 01-21-06, 02:01 AM	I love Conan the Barbarian's sword. I wish there was stats for it. But, from my limited experiences with swords, longswords are not even close to the type of sword Conan used. Somewhere I heard the actual sword Conan (Arnold Swartzeneiger) used weighed more than 9lbs. I'm not sure on the exact weight, but I'm sure it was around 10lbs. My choice: S 1d8 M 1d10 Crit 20x3 wt. 9lbs. one handed or two handed To balance it: Req. Str to use 16 Balance shmalance!!! Get for real. Is this really going to unbalance a game? No.
Cold Napalm 01-21-06, 02:08 AM	I love Conan the Barbarian's sword. I wish there was stats for it. But, from my limited experiences with swords, longswords are not even close to the type of sword Conan used. Somewhere I heard the actual sword Conan (Arnold Swartzeneiger) used weighed more than 9lbs. I'm not sure on the exact weight, but I'm sure it was around 10lbs. My choice: S 1d8 M 1d10 Crit 20x3 wt. 9lbs. one handed or two handed To balance it: Req. Str to use 16 Balance shmalance!!! Get for real. Is this really going to unbalance a game? No. Unless thats an exotic one handed, that WILL unbalance your game since it's on par with a bastard sword. That 16 STR req means squat. For that to be martial, you'd need a -1 or -2 to hit to off set the stats.
Vahenir 01-21-06, 03:33 AM	I love Conan the Barbarian's sword. I wish there was stats for it. But, from my limited experiences with swords, longswords are not even close to the type of sword Conan used. First of all, unless I am severely mistaken, the OP was talking about broadswords as they appear in the Conan STORIES, not the movie. It sometimes amazes me how GAMERS, who read books as part of their primary hobby, can overlook the existance of books and became so enamoured with cinema, to the point of seemingly not even knowing incredibly popular books exist. Anywho... in the Conan STORIES broadswords are D&D longswords. In the FILM, Conan's sword was basically a D&D bastard sword. Somewhere I heard the actual sword Conan (Arnold Swartzeneiger) used weighed more than 9lbs. I'm not sure on the exact weight, but I'm sure it was around 10lbs. 1.) 7 pounds, 12 ounces. 2.) The sword was actually so heavy that even Arnie had trouble -swinging it-, and he never would have been able to use it in the way that a sword needs to be used in order to function. In other words, the sword, while pretty, is utter nonsense. It's too large to be used properly. 3.) If you absolutely must have it in the game, all it is is a 'fantasy-style' bastard sword. Or you could say that Conan has one of those stupid feats and he's actually wielding a two-hand sword one-handed. That would be more apt. By the way, one of the reasons the Conan sword is so heavy is the extensive bronzework. A solid bronze guard THAT thick and wide is simply too heavy for any real sword. Balance shmalance!!! Get for real. Is this really going to unbalance a game? No. Yes. It's functionally out-and-out better than a bastard sword. It's no different from making a single-hand sword that requires a Strength of 20 and a Dex of 16 to use, but deals 2d20 damage. It's unbalanced no matter how many arbitrary requirements you put on its use.
Bounces 01-21-06, 10:23 AM	Someone asked what PEACH meant and thus I was summoned. Check my sig for a link...it's an acronym...I think its: Please Examine And Critique Honestly
FEADIN1 01-21-06, 10:52 AM	Broadswords were equal to Longswords in the 3.0 Sword & Fist book. If I remember well.
Count Arioch the 28th 01-21-06, 11:47 AM	MYself, I use the stats for the elven thinblade, remove the "elf", and use that as a broadsword. But as for me, when I think Broadsword, I think of this guy: http://www.tabloach.com/jpg/repaint188d.jpg
Shadowfax7 01-21-06, 11:50 AM	My suggestions are: Broadsword Cost: 12 gp, 1d6 (S), 1d8 (M), Crit 20/x3, Weight: 5 lb, Slashing. This is balanced as a 1h martial weapon. OR Broadsword Cost: 20 gp, 1d6 (S), 2d4 (M), Crit 19-20/x2, Weight: 5 lb, Slashing. This does 1/2 point more damage on average for a medium 1h martial weapon at a slightly higher cost.
Rhomphaia 01-21-06, 12:04 PM	MYself, I use the stats for the elven thinblade, remove the "elf", and use that as a broadsword. But as for me, when I think Broadsword, I think of this guy: http://www.tabloach.com/jpg/repaint188d.jpg Actually, I think 'rapier' when I see that guy. Anyway, I always thought Conan's sword was best thought of as a bastard sword in game terms, even though the variety of swords Aragorn used in Lord of the Rings is a more fitting depiction of a bastard sword. I always thought of a broadsword as something like a longer version of the Roman Gladius. However, I have a pair of stats for a broadsword if you wish to peruse them and see if you like them. Broadsword version A One hand martial weapon Damage- 1d6 (s) or 2d4 (m). Critical- x2. Weight- 5 lbs. Cost- 20 gp. Broadsword version B One hand martial weapon Damage- 1d6 (s) or 1d8 (m), Critical- x3. Weight- 5 lbs. Cost- 20 gp.
Grug the Just 01-21-06, 11:37 PM	Mind if I interject. Broadsword (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadsword) The term is useless. Use a longsword and say it looks different. K.I.S.S. You can't tell me another sword from there wouldn't fit what you want.
DMDaddy 01-22-06, 12:18 AM	It sometimes amazes me how GAMERS, who read books as part of their primary hobby, can overlook the existance of books and became so enamoured with cinema, to the point of seemingly not even knowing incredibly popular books exist. Thanks for pointing that out. I do remember the classic books. Edgar Rice Burroughs, if memory serves me right, was the first Conan author. But, 'The Princess of Mars' series seemed a better read, so I read them all instead of the 'Conan' series. Some one give me browny points. How many authors do I have to list to loose the GAMER description? Still, if it was a Bastard Sword in the "movies", then it is a Bastard Sword I like and was refering to. I will kindly excuse myself from the thread after I remove my foot from my ***. :)
RaspK FOG 01-22-06, 12:37 AM	Actually, the pictures shown in comparison above have a problem when it comes to scale: the first one is obviously closer to its object, thus it looks bigger; this can be easily deduced by the fact that the handle looks much bigger in most regards to that of the second image. We can assume that the first one is some sort of "short sword," but it definitely isn't a gladius, so I believe this is more of a wallhanger too. EDIT: the grain of the wood also seems to be in agreance with my above statement.
bondious 01-22-06, 03:21 AM	Someone asked what PEACH meant and thus I was summoned. Check my sig for a link...it's an acronym...I think its: Please Examine And Critique Honestly Thank you, and that was me. :D
Watchman 01-22-06, 07:01 AM	I do remember the classic books. Edgar Rice Burroughs, if memory serves me right, was the first Conan author....Robert E. Howard ring any bells...? Burroughs and his Mars books can't hold a candle to Da Man.
DMDaddy 01-22-06, 09:45 PM	...Robert E. Howard ring any bells...? Burroughs and his Mars books can't hold a candle to Da Man. No, doesn't ring a bell. I might have to check him out. Pure opinion. I could just as well say Gunsnroses can't hold a candle to Motley Crue. In truth they both stink, in my opinion.
Ashok_Lal 01-22-06, 11:09 PM	This is easy.First if you think there should be a difrent stats for each type of sword then wait for the complete sword handook(ficticional) which could list all the diffrent types if swords down through history. About 500 Or if you think a broadsword is a Conan sword than use Barstard sword as he does use 1-handed and 2-handed (Conan has ewp barstard sword). If you think of Inio Mantoya as a broard sword then use rapia
jaelis 01-22-06, 11:19 PM	No, doesn't ring a bell. I might have to check him out. Well, if you've read any of the original Conan books, then you've read Robert E. Howard. Burroughs didn't write any Conan books that I know of... maybe you're thinking of Tarzan? How many authors do I have to list to loose the GAMER description? I'm afraid that misattributions actually count against you.
WhiteHarness 01-23-06, 02:16 AM	No, doesn't ring a bell. I might have to check him out. That's Pathetic. How can you be in Texas and NOT KNOW who Robert E. Howard was? I just got back from attending Howard's 100th birthday party in Fort Worth on Saturday.
Vahenir 01-23-06, 02:30 AM	Thanks for pointing that out. I do remember the classic books. Edgar Rice Burroughs, if memory serves me right, was the first Conan author. But, 'The Princess of Mars' series seemed a better read, so I read them all instead of the 'Conan' series. Some one give me browny points. How many authors do I have to list to loose the GAMER description? Still, if it was a Bastard Sword in the "movies", then it is a Bastard Sword I like and was refering to. I will kindly excuse myself from the thread after I remove my foot from my ***. :) I don't believe Burroughs ever wrote Conan stories - he wrote Tarzan. Robert E. Howard wrote (and created) Conan, although other non-Howard authors have written about Conan since Howard's suicide. And you're in luck, all of Howard's original works have been published in a series of three books. The Coming of Conan The Cimmerian The Bloody Crown of Conan The Conquering Sword of Conan Together these contain all of Howard's original stories. I'm particularly fond of Black Colossus, Red Nails, The Tower of the Elephant, The Scarlet Citadel, and The Hour of the Dragon. If you haven't read the original Conan stories of Robert E. Howard, you really are missing out on some amazing reads, as well as a large part of the very history of D&D. They really are some of the best works of heroic fantasy ever written. Being a "GAMER" isn't a bad thing - but being a gamer (a person who reads fantasy as part of their hobby) and not even having ever HEARD about the classics... it's uncanny. It's like being a gamer and not ever having heard of J. R. R. Tolkien and Middle-earth or Beowulf. It's simply not allowed.
WhiteHarness 01-23-06, 11:25 AM	Black Colossus is the best. "...they brought harness to replace Conan's chain-mail - gorget, sollerets, cuirass, pauldrons, jambes, cuisses, and sallet. When Yasmela again drew the curtains, a Conan in burnished steel stood before his audience. Clad in the plate-armor, vizor lifted and dark face shadowed by the black plumes that nodded above his helmet, there was a grim impressiveness about him that even Thespides grudgingly noted. A jest died suddenly on Amalric's lips. "By Mitra," he said slowly, "I never expected to see you cased in coat-armor, but you do not put it to shame. By my finger-bones, Conan, I have seen kings who wore their harness less regally than you!" Conan was silent. A vague shadow crossed his mind like a prophecy. In years to come he was to remember Amalric's words, when the dream became the reality." That passage gives me shivers every time I read it. Howard was a master.