Broadwords [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Broadwords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ImagoKid
02-23-05, 02:09 AM Hey!

Does anyone out there have stats for a broadsword? If you do, could you please post them up here for me? I'm talking about a medieval European-style broadsword, not a Kung-Fu broadsword.

Thanks,
ImagoKid
Sproik
02-23-05, 02:17 AM Broadsword, martial weapon, deals 1d8 points of damage with a critical threat range of 19-20 (double damage on a critical hit).

There is very little point making it a different weapon to 'longsword' however. Or even a rapier - although personally I'd make it a longsword-type weapon, given the emphasis on the cutting edge.
Mirtek
02-23-05, 04:19 AM Correct.

The "problem" with the 3.X weapon system is that there's only so many balanced damage/proficiency/threat-range combinations.

Thus you have to group similar weapons together under the same stats, even if there's a lot of difference between them in real world (e.g. katana/bastardsword or in this case broadsword/longsword*)

*well, in this case the term broadsword is already a compromise, as the term is an invention of modern scholars, and was never uses while the weapons were still in use. see Broadsword or Broad Sword? (http://www.thearma.org/essays/broadsword.htm)
Sproik
02-23-05, 05:08 AM Correct.
*well, in this case the term broadsword is already a compromise, as the term is an invention of modern scholars, and was never uses while the weapons were still in use. see Broadsword or Broad Sword? (http://www.thearma.org/essays/broadsword.htm)

:devil:

Actually, that writer is not necessarily someone who knows what the hell they're talking about... (http://www.swordhistory.com/reviews/medieval.html)

One of my uncles has several broadswords. They are relatively small single-edged, basket hilted Scottish weapons. I believe the term 'broad' is for comparison with typical fencing weapons of that period.
Thorak
02-23-05, 07:19 AM :devil:

Actually, that writer is not necessarily someone who knows what the hell they're talking about... (http://www.swordhistory.com/reviews/medieval.html)

One of my uncles has several broadswords. They are relatively small single-edged, basket hilted Scottish weapons. I believe the term 'broad' is for comparison with typical fencing weapons of that period.
The problem is those things aren't medieval. They're often inaccurately called "claymores", because in some cases the actual family claymore, the big two-hander with the distinctive crossguard, was cut down to make the blade. This was happening in the early modern period, not the medieval, the two-handers were still used as-is into the 1500s.
Johannixx
02-23-05, 10:10 AM Longsword in itself is a misnomer. Real longswords were light, maneuverable two-handed swords, probably statistically identical to that newfangled Elven whatever-blade in Races of the Wild: 1d10 18-20x2 and Finesseable.

That said, a "Broadsword" in the modern sense of the word, can encompass two weapons: the early medieval single-hand sword (statted out as a D&D Longsword), and the later Scottish, English and Italian basket-hilted swords (statted out as a D&D Longsword that grants bonuses to resist being disarmed due to the protective hilt).
Tony Vargas
02-23-05, 12:57 PM For a Conan-esque oversize fantasy broadsword (basically like a D&D longsword, but, well, broader across the blade), you could go with 2d4 (20/x2) slashing, as a one-handed martial weapon. Make it heavier than a longsword, and give it a few more hps than one. Balance-wise, that's giving up 1 threat range for an extra 0.5 average damage, a little weak, but the extra hps help make up for it. Fits the concept of a large, brutal, weapon used with less finesse than a longsword, but maybe a little more than an axe. ;)

Another option is to make it exotic - exactly like a bastard sword, it's just wider instead of longer - again, you could change the damage to from d10 to 2d4, and up the hps.

Why do I keep suggesting 2d4? Simple, the OAD&D broadsword did 2-8/2-7, 2-8 is 2d4. It's retro.

For the historical uses of the term, the renaisance-looking-back-at-medieval use would be statted as a longsword (since that's exactly what the D&D longsword is based on); the gunpowder-era singled-edged ones could be statted as scimitars (ie, similar to the contemporaneous rapiers, but doing slashing instead of piercing, and not being finesseable).
Lassiviren
02-23-05, 02:59 PM Another option is to make it exotic - exactly like a bastard sword, it's just wider instead of longer - again, you could change the damage to from d10 to 2d4, and up the hps.

Why do I keep suggesting 2d4? Simple, the OAD&D broadsword did 2-8/2-7, 2-8 is 2d4. It's retro.

In my game it is statted exactly like the falchion, except you can use it one handed with an exotic weapon prof. Its too weak as a 2d4 19-20/x2.
Vahenir
02-23-05, 05:14 PM Broadswords don't exist, as has been mentioned. The term is a misnomer that 19th century fencers used to describe Medieval blades. They were named such because the blades of those swords were in fact broader than the swords that were popular during the 19th and later centuries.

And thus, the term broadsword applies to all swords that aren't rapiers, estocs, fencing sabers, foils, epees, or smallswords.

So you'll have to define exactly what you INTEND by "broadsword."

The most common modern application of the world references a style of sword much like the backsword. A single-hand sword with a double or single-edged straight blade mounted on a hilt that features a basket or other somewhat complex hand protection.

If that's what you want... then that's a standard D&D Longsword. If you want the basket to serve a purpose.. give it a +2 bonus to resist disarm attempts.
Ssussunriyh
02-24-05, 12:29 AM There is the Chondathan steelsword from Races of Faerun:

"Somewhat broader in the blade than usual for a longsword, Chondathan steelswords are favored by mercenaries and merchant guards... This broad-bladed, one-handed sword is treated as a masterwork longsword that grants a +2 bonus when trying to break a foe's weapon."

Martial weapon - melee
Medium-size, 315 gp, 1d8, 19-20/x2, 5 lbs, Slashing
Johannixx
02-24-05, 01:46 AM There is the Chondathan steelsword from Races of Faerun:

"Somewhat broader in the blade than usual for a longsword, Chondathan steelswords are favored by mercenaries and merchant guards... This broad-bladed, one-handed sword is treated as a masterwork longsword that grants a +2 bonus when trying to break a foe's weapon."

Martial weapon - melee
Medium-size, 315 gp, 1d8, 19-20/x2, 5 lbs, Slashing

I've always wondered what that meant. Is it a +2 damage bonus on Sunder attacks? A +2 attack bonus on Sunder attacks? Both?
Ogre4Hire
02-24-05, 12:30 PM Maybe it's a +2 on the Break DC of the weapon to shatter it outright?

Or maybe the person who made it had a bad proofreader.

We'll probably never know.
Vahenir
02-24-05, 12:56 PM We'll probably never know.

Or someone could just e-mail Wizards of the Coast and ask them. That's what they're there for.

Me, I don't care, because I don't use that weapon or play in FR.
Lasrifriir
02-24-05, 02:12 PM For simplicity's sake, in the past I've just taken the longsword and made it deal slashing instead of piercing damage.

No need to modify weight or any other miscellane; they're already screwed up in D&D anyways.
Johannixx
02-24-05, 02:36 PM For simplicity's sake, in the past I've just taken the longsword and made it deal slashing instead of piercing damage.

No need to modify weight or any other miscellane; they're already screwed up in D&D anyways.

Um, longswords already deal Slashing damage by default.
Shadowfax7
02-24-05, 09:23 PM For a Conan-esque oversize fantasy broadsword

In the d20 Conan RPG, Broadswords are statted as 1d10 crit 20/x2 as 1h slashing martial weapons. IMO, Balanced with the other martial weapons.
Tony Vargas
02-24-05, 10:10 PM d10, 2d4, they both average about 5 (d10 avg 5.5). I prefer the 2-8 damage for the nostalgia's sake. ;)

Also, some may balk at a martial weapon with the same damage die as a bastard sword - and the Conan d20 weapons are supposed to be a tad butch compared to regular D&D...
scwolf
02-25-05, 12:32 AM Complete Adventurer has an exotic weapon, the Broadblade Short Sword, which can give bonuses to AC when used in certain situations in combat. In my game, I'm toying with the idea of having it work like the Bastard Sword does, in that a character that's got Martial Weapon Proficency can use it without penalty, but they need the Exotic Weapon Proficency to get access to it's special qualities (in this case, the AC bonuses, as opposed to the Bastard Sword's one-handed wielding).

Complete Adventurer already states that the weapon counts as a regular short sword for the purposes of several feats, so this would just be a widening of that similarity.
Johannixx
02-25-05, 02:09 AM Also, some may balk at a martial weapon with the same damage die as a bastard sword - and the Conan d20 weapons are supposed to be a tad butch compared to regular D&D...

All of the Conan d20 weapons have their damages kicked up a notch (except the lowly dagger, which remains 1d4). I wouldn't use them as a valid comparison with standard d20 weapons.
weasel fierce
02-25-05, 03:36 AM Pretty much any large sword can be assumed a "longsword" rules wise. The differences are usually negligible, and trying to catagorize them into different groups, tends to assume a 20th century manufacturing line sort of production that didnt exist.
Lasrifriir
02-25-05, 09:35 AM Um, longswords already deal Slashing damage by default.

Wow, WTF was I thinking? All this time I've been having them deal piercing.

Goes to show you how much fine detail helps :doh: .
Johannixx
02-25-05, 11:39 AM Wow, WTF was I thinking? All this time I've been having them deal piercing.

Goes to show you how much fine detail helps :doh: .

Hey, that's okay. Most of the later historical models were cut-and-thrust anyway, so I always houserule that they deal Slashing or Piercing damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ImagoKid 02-23-05, 02:09 AM	Hey! Does anyone out there have stats for a broadsword? If you do, could you please post them up here for me? I'm talking about a medieval European-style broadsword, not a Kung-Fu broadsword. Thanks, ImagoKid
Sproik 02-23-05, 02:17 AM	Broadsword, martial weapon, deals 1d8 points of damage with a critical threat range of 19-20 (double damage on a critical hit). There is very little point making it a different weapon to 'longsword' however. Or even a rapier - although personally I'd make it a longsword-type weapon, given the emphasis on the cutting edge.
Mirtek 02-23-05, 04:19 AM	Correct. The "problem" with the 3.X weapon system is that there's only so many balanced damage/proficiency/threat-range combinations. Thus you have to group similar weapons together under the same stats, even if there's a lot of difference between them in real world (e.g. katana/bastardsword or in this case broadsword/longsword) well, in this case the term broadsword is already a compromise, as the term is an invention of modern scholars, and was never uses while the weapons were still in use. see Broadsword or Broad Sword? (http://www.thearma.org/essays/broadsword.htm)
Sproik 02-23-05, 05:08 AM	Correct. *well, in this case the term broadsword is already a compromise, as the term is an invention of modern scholars, and was never uses while the weapons were still in use. see Broadsword or Broad Sword? (http://www.thearma.org/essays/broadsword.htm) :devil: Actually, that writer is not necessarily someone who knows what the hell they're talking about... (http://www.swordhistory.com/reviews/medieval.html) One of my uncles has several broadswords. They are relatively small single-edged, basket hilted Scottish weapons. I believe the term 'broad' is for comparison with typical fencing weapons of that period.
Thorak 02-23-05, 07:19 AM	:devil: Actually, that writer is not necessarily someone who knows what the hell they're talking about... (http://www.swordhistory.com/reviews/medieval.html) One of my uncles has several broadswords. They are relatively small single-edged, basket hilted Scottish weapons. I believe the term 'broad' is for comparison with typical fencing weapons of that period. The problem is those things aren't medieval. They're often inaccurately called "claymores", because in some cases the actual family claymore, the big two-hander with the distinctive crossguard, was cut down to make the blade. This was happening in the early modern period, not the medieval, the two-handers were still used as-is into the 1500s.
Johannixx 02-23-05, 10:10 AM	Longsword in itself is a misnomer. Real longswords were light, maneuverable two-handed swords, probably statistically identical to that newfangled Elven whatever-blade in Races of the Wild: 1d10 18-20x2 and Finesseable. That said, a "Broadsword" in the modern sense of the word, can encompass two weapons: the early medieval single-hand sword (statted out as a D&D Longsword), and the later Scottish, English and Italian basket-hilted swords (statted out as a D&D Longsword that grants bonuses to resist being disarmed due to the protective hilt).
Tony Vargas 02-23-05, 12:57 PM	For a Conan-esque oversize fantasy broadsword (basically like a D&D longsword, but, well, broader across the blade), you could go with 2d4 (20/x2) slashing, as a one-handed martial weapon. Make it heavier than a longsword, and give it a few more hps than one. Balance-wise, that's giving up 1 threat range for an extra 0.5 average damage, a little weak, but the extra hps help make up for it. Fits the concept of a large, brutal, weapon used with less finesse than a longsword, but maybe a little more than an axe. ;) Another option is to make it exotic - exactly like a bastard sword, it's just wider instead of longer - again, you could change the damage to from d10 to 2d4, and up the hps. Why do I keep suggesting 2d4? Simple, the OAD&D broadsword did 2-8/2-7, 2-8 is 2d4. It's retro. For the historical uses of the term, the renaisance-looking-back-at-medieval use would be statted as a longsword (since that's exactly what the D&D longsword is based on); the gunpowder-era singled-edged ones could be statted as scimitars (ie, similar to the contemporaneous rapiers, but doing slashing instead of piercing, and not being finesseable).
Lassiviren 02-23-05, 02:59 PM	Another option is to make it exotic - exactly like a bastard sword, it's just wider instead of longer - again, you could change the damage to from d10 to 2d4, and up the hps. Why do I keep suggesting 2d4? Simple, the OAD&D broadsword did 2-8/2-7, 2-8 is 2d4. It's retro. In my game it is statted exactly like the falchion, except you can use it one handed with an exotic weapon prof. Its too weak as a 2d4 19-20/x2.
Vahenir 02-23-05, 05:14 PM	Broadswords don't exist, as has been mentioned. The term is a misnomer that 19th century fencers used to describe Medieval blades. They were named such because the blades of those swords were in fact broader than the swords that were popular during the 19th and later centuries. And thus, the term broadsword applies to all swords that aren't rapiers, estocs, fencing sabers, foils, epees, or smallswords. So you'll have to define exactly what you INTEND by "broadsword." The most common modern application of the world references a style of sword much like the backsword. A single-hand sword with a double or single-edged straight blade mounted on a hilt that features a basket or other somewhat complex hand protection. If that's what you want... then that's a standard D&D Longsword. If you want the basket to serve a purpose.. give it a +2 bonus to resist disarm attempts.
Ssussunriyh 02-24-05, 12:29 AM	There is the Chondathan steelsword from Races of Faerun: "Somewhat broader in the blade than usual for a longsword, Chondathan steelswords are favored by mercenaries and merchant guards... This broad-bladed, one-handed sword is treated as a masterwork longsword that grants a +2 bonus when trying to break a foe's weapon." Martial weapon - melee Medium-size, 315 gp, 1d8, 19-20/x2, 5 lbs, Slashing
Johannixx 02-24-05, 01:46 AM	There is the Chondathan steelsword from Races of Faerun: "Somewhat broader in the blade than usual for a longsword, Chondathan steelswords are favored by mercenaries and merchant guards... This broad-bladed, one-handed sword is treated as a masterwork longsword that grants a +2 bonus when trying to break a foe's weapon." Martial weapon - melee Medium-size, 315 gp, 1d8, 19-20/x2, 5 lbs, Slashing I've always wondered what that meant. Is it a +2 damage bonus on Sunder attacks? A +2 attack bonus on Sunder attacks? Both?
Ogre4Hire 02-24-05, 12:30 PM	Maybe it's a +2 on the Break DC of the weapon to shatter it outright? Or maybe the person who made it had a bad proofreader. We'll probably never know.
Vahenir 02-24-05, 12:56 PM	We'll probably never know. Or someone could just e-mail Wizards of the Coast and ask them. That's what they're there for. Me, I don't care, because I don't use that weapon or play in FR.
Lasrifriir 02-24-05, 02:12 PM	For simplicity's sake, in the past I've just taken the longsword and made it deal slashing instead of piercing damage. No need to modify weight or any other miscellane; they're already screwed up in D&D anyways.
Johannixx 02-24-05, 02:36 PM	For simplicity's sake, in the past I've just taken the longsword and made it deal slashing instead of piercing damage. No need to modify weight or any other miscellane; they're already screwed up in D&D anyways. Um, longswords already deal Slashing damage by default.
Shadowfax7 02-24-05, 09:23 PM	For a Conan-esque oversize fantasy broadsword In the d20 Conan RPG, Broadswords are statted as 1d10 crit 20/x2 as 1h slashing martial weapons. IMO, Balanced with the other martial weapons.
Tony Vargas 02-24-05, 10:10 PM	d10, 2d4, they both average about 5 (d10 avg 5.5). I prefer the 2-8 damage for the nostalgia's sake. ;) Also, some may balk at a martial weapon with the same damage die as a bastard sword - and the Conan d20 weapons are supposed to be a tad butch compared to regular D&D...
scwolf 02-25-05, 12:32 AM	Complete Adventurer has an exotic weapon, the Broadblade Short Sword, which can give bonuses to AC when used in certain situations in combat. In my game, I'm toying with the idea of having it work like the Bastard Sword does, in that a character that's got Martial Weapon Proficency can use it without penalty, but they need the Exotic Weapon Proficency to get access to it's special qualities (in this case, the AC bonuses, as opposed to the Bastard Sword's one-handed wielding). Complete Adventurer already states that the weapon counts as a regular short sword for the purposes of several feats, so this would just be a widening of that similarity.
Johannixx 02-25-05, 02:09 AM	Also, some may balk at a martial weapon with the same damage die as a bastard sword - and the Conan d20 weapons are supposed to be a tad butch compared to regular D&D... All of the Conan d20 weapons have their damages kicked up a notch (except the lowly dagger, which remains 1d4). I wouldn't use them as a valid comparison with standard d20 weapons.
weasel fierce 02-25-05, 03:36 AM	Pretty much any large sword can be assumed a "longsword" rules wise. The differences are usually negligible, and trying to catagorize them into different groups, tends to assume a 20th century manufacturing line sort of production that didnt exist.
Lasrifriir 02-25-05, 09:35 AM	Um, longswords already deal Slashing damage by default. Wow, WTF was I thinking? All this time I've been having them deal piercing. Goes to show you how much fine detail helps :doh: .
Johannixx 02-25-05, 11:39 AM	Wow, WTF was I thinking? All this time I've been having them deal piercing. Goes to show you how much fine detail helps :doh: . Hey, that's okay. Most of the later historical models were cut-and-thrust anyway, so I always houserule that they deal Slashing or Piercing damage.