broken fingers [Archive] - Wizards Community

broken fingers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheOrdnanceGod
07-20-07, 03:54 AM This just popped into my head, not sure why, could just be the twangy feeling in my wrist, but imagine this situation:

(insert villan/foe here) has sunder and is good at using it. (insert villan/foe) is currently in combat with a monk. The hands/whatever pass for hands of a monk are "weapons" of a sort so could sunder work against them? From a perspective of realism it should work. If someone catches your hand at a wierd angle with a heavy mace while you're trying to jack them in the nose it could break your hand.

so how would this work? could it also apply to things like bones or body parts that get hit really hard?
Narthon
07-20-07, 07:54 AM It would just do hit point damage which would come off the monk's hit point total. There is no mechanic for specific damaged body parts other than eyes and ears.
SpaceHopper
07-20-07, 08:23 AM Bad idea methinks.

Allowing Monk's fists to be Sundered has a lot of issues to it.

Firstly, Sunder works against wielded items (weapon or shield held, or item worn or carried). Monk's fists (or whatever part they use at the time) don't fit the catagory.

Secondly, this would then open up natural weapons to be Sundered (as an extension of "The monk's fists were weapons, why not the Claws and Teeth of that Tiger?")

Thirdly, Sunder works against Hardnesses and Hitpoints of the object to be Sundered. As Narthon stated, a person (or creature) has a single pool of Hitpoints, so trying to do HP damage to just the fists has no applicable game mechanic.

The fact you cannot disarm or sunder a monk's weapon when he fights unarmed is one of their redeeming qualities - not something i'd want to take away from them.
tarkin
07-20-07, 09:52 AM What the h3ll if this crazy guy wants to waste his actions fine.

My hitpoints are 53. As per Sunder rules, if you want to break my fingers, you have to do 53 points of damage to my hand.

Or the fool could actually target me and drop me with those same 53 points of damage.

P.S. Note, besides the joke, I actually find this house rule is fair and reasonable. There are unusual circumstances, such as facing opponents with things like regeneration, where you actually would want to 'sunder' their natural weapons or unarmed strikes instead of trying to kill them.
Mogarth_Warheart
07-20-07, 09:57 AM I would allow it say something like each finder has a hardness of i dunno wood since its a monk and they would have harder hands and give them hp equal to 1/10 of there hp rounded up. But as the monk levels up increase the hardness of the hands .
tarkin
07-20-07, 10:41 AM What half @ss reason do you have for letting them sunder when they don't do full damage? The rules for sundering are CLEAR.

To break an item, ANY item, you need to do ALL of it's hitpoints in damage. No "I just want to break the handle, so I can do only 1/10th". Similarly, letting them do it for 1/10th the Monk's hitpoints is a blatantly abusive ruling with NO foundation anywhere in the core rules.

Look, you want to make a called shot rule? Fine.

Make one up yourself. Start by trying to COPY existing called shot rules without throwing in a pulled out of your hat "1/10th hitpoints.

Examine Trip or Disarm or the Hamstring feat (a feat that does pretty much what you desire to their feats - not I am talking Hamstring, not Hamstring Attack which is a seperate feat)

A reasonable set of rules might look like this:

Claw Breaker

Prerequisite: 2d6 Sneak attack ability, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: If you hit with a melee sneak attack, you may choose to forgo 2d6 points of extra sneak attack damage to damage an opponent's natural weapons or their Unarmed Strike ability. If they have multiple natural weapons or Natural weapons AND unarmed Strike, pick one natural weapon or select Unarmed Strike. That ability now does 1/2 damage, for the next 24 hours. A successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other magical healing will also fix it. Creatures immune to sneak attack damage You may use this ability once per round.

The 1/2 damage penalty does not stack - if you use this ability on a creature already affected by it, you must target a different natural weapon/unarmed strike.
Gold Katana
07-20-07, 10:41 AM 1. A Monk does not attack with his hands exclusively. He uses his entire body and can even deliver full damage if both hands are full.

2. Allowing this is opening an Economy-size can of worms.

3. Don't do it.
unfortunate_crow
07-20-07, 05:19 PM I would rule against all this because it screws the monk (which I think needs all the help it can get).

But if you are looking for a precedent, use the rules for sundering the heads of a Hydra. (Monster Manual)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheOrdnanceGod 07-20-07, 03:54 AM	This just popped into my head, not sure why, could just be the twangy feeling in my wrist, but imagine this situation: (insert villan/foe here) has sunder and is good at using it. (insert villan/foe) is currently in combat with a monk. The hands/whatever pass for hands of a monk are "weapons" of a sort so could sunder work against them? From a perspective of realism it should work. If someone catches your hand at a wierd angle with a heavy mace while you're trying to jack them in the nose it could break your hand. so how would this work? could it also apply to things like bones or body parts that get hit really hard?
Narthon 07-20-07, 07:54 AM	It would just do hit point damage which would come off the monk's hit point total. There is no mechanic for specific damaged body parts other than eyes and ears.
SpaceHopper 07-20-07, 08:23 AM	Bad idea methinks. Allowing Monk's fists to be Sundered has a lot of issues to it. Firstly, Sunder works against wielded items (weapon or shield held, or item worn or carried). Monk's fists (or whatever part they use at the time) don't fit the catagory. Secondly, this would then open up natural weapons to be Sundered (as an extension of "The monk's fists were weapons, why not the Claws and Teeth of that Tiger?") Thirdly, Sunder works against Hardnesses and Hitpoints of the object to be Sundered. As Narthon stated, a person (or creature) has a single pool of Hitpoints, so trying to do HP damage to just the fists has no applicable game mechanic. The fact you cannot disarm or sunder a monk's weapon when he fights unarmed is one of their redeeming qualities - not something i'd want to take away from them.
tarkin 07-20-07, 09:52 AM	What the h3ll if this crazy guy wants to waste his actions fine. My hitpoints are 53. As per Sunder rules, if you want to break my fingers, you have to do 53 points of damage to my hand. Or the fool could actually target me and drop me with those same 53 points of damage. P.S. Note, besides the joke, I actually find this house rule is fair and reasonable. There are unusual circumstances, such as facing opponents with things like regeneration, where you actually would want to 'sunder' their natural weapons or unarmed strikes instead of trying to kill them.
Mogarth_Warheart 07-20-07, 09:57 AM	I would allow it say something like each finder has a hardness of i dunno wood since its a monk and they would have harder hands and give them hp equal to 1/10 of there hp rounded up. But as the monk levels up increase the hardness of the hands .
tarkin 07-20-07, 10:41 AM	What half @ss reason do you have for letting them sunder when they don't do full damage? The rules for sundering are CLEAR. To break an item, ANY item, you need to do ALL of it's hitpoints in damage. No "I just want to break the handle, so I can do only 1/10th". Similarly, letting them do it for 1/10th the Monk's hitpoints is a blatantly abusive ruling with NO foundation anywhere in the core rules. Look, you want to make a called shot rule? Fine. Make one up yourself. Start by trying to COPY existing called shot rules without throwing in a pulled out of your hat "1/10th hitpoints. Examine Trip or Disarm or the Hamstring feat (a feat that does pretty much what you desire to their feats - not I am talking Hamstring, not Hamstring Attack which is a seperate feat) A reasonable set of rules might look like this: Claw Breaker Prerequisite: 2d6 Sneak attack ability, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: If you hit with a melee sneak attack, you may choose to forgo 2d6 points of extra sneak attack damage to damage an opponent's natural weapons or their Unarmed Strike ability. If they have multiple natural weapons or Natural weapons AND unarmed Strike, pick one natural weapon or select Unarmed Strike. That ability now does 1/2 damage, for the next 24 hours. A successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other magical healing will also fix it. Creatures immune to sneak attack damage You may use this ability once per round. The 1/2 damage penalty does not stack - if you use this ability on a creature already affected by it, you must target a different natural weapon/unarmed strike.
Gold Katana 07-20-07, 10:41 AM	1. A Monk does not attack with his hands exclusively. He uses his entire body and can even deliver full damage if both hands are full. 2. Allowing this is opening an Economy-size can of worms. 3. Don't do it.
unfortunate_crow 07-20-07, 05:19 PM	I would rule against all this because it screws the monk (which I think needs all the help it can get). But if you are looking for a precedent, use the rules for sundering the heads of a Hydra. (Monster Manual)