bronze breastplate as light armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

bronze breastplate as light armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sae Cael Oanar
12-16-05, 07:58 PM dunno if this should go in the eberron boards.

im playing a valenar scout. i want to wear just a bronze breastplate, without the helemt and greaves, and was wondering if this could be a balanced light armor.

bronze breastplate +2 ac +5 max dex -1 armor check penalty 25% arcane spell failure full speed

it doesnt seem to overpower the other armors at all, and its how i picture my character.

what do you all think?
Vahenir
12-16-05, 08:13 PM It's crap. (No offense) -- I mean your character is taking a hit on it. It's functionally better than padded armour, but far crappier than leather armour.

You're better off asking your DM if you can use leather armour stats and just call it a bronze breastplate.
Elric Lornhood
12-16-05, 10:41 PM Reading several history books on classics, I seem to keep reading its a bit of a myth that bronze was so much the poorer compared to iron weapons and armor. What really put iron over the top wasn't performance, apparently, but that it was easier and more abundant to mine, make (since bronze is an alloy of copper and tin) and thus was much cheaper and therefore more readily available to more people. Helping along the developement of the citizen soldier "hoplites" of Greece and getting away from the warrior-king ideal of the bronze age.]
I've seen this a few times now, about bronze not really being crappy compared to iron, and was surprised when I read it, myself.
Vahenir
12-16-05, 11:56 PM Bronze isn't crappy. It is, however, weaker, more flexible (a bad thing in this case), and if I'm not mistaken it's also heavier per square inch than iron is. So in order for a bronze breastplate and an iron breastplate to be equal in terms of functional value -- the bronze one would have to be thicker to compensate for bronze being more flexible and weaker than iron, which would also make it much heavier and more uncomfortable to wear.

But none of that is really material to this thread, is it?
Rolof
12-17-05, 10:48 AM There used to be stats for bronze plate in second edition. If
stats no longer exist for it in 3.5, I would say use the type
relevant (in your case breastplate), with a -1 to the armor
bonus, and +5 pounds to the weight (I think the previous
poster who said it's heavier is correct). No need to change
the spell failure chance that I can think of, unless your DM
has a rule that bronze is more or less attuned to magic in
their campaign. Maybe an additional -1 to the armor check
penalty and subtract 1 from the max dex.

So overall it would end up, in my opinion, as this:
Armor +4
Max Dex +2
Check Penalty -5
35 lbs

Looking at the chart though, it would be a medium armor,
not light. I have no idea how much weight of the armor is
in the greaves and all, good luck convincing your DM that
removing those would make it qualify as light. Personally, I
don't see it. I'm playing a ranger myself, I assume we have
about the same needs and desires character-wise, I started
play with masterwork studded leather (3 AC and no check
penalties) and recently barely managed to afford a mithril
chain shirt by selling off the old armor first. I'd suggest the
same to you, if you can pull it off.
Shadowfax7
12-17-05, 11:38 AM 3rd ed. A&EG has stats for Bronze Breastplate armor as being the same as Steel Breastplate armor except for a +4 Armor bonus (instead of +5) and a +4 Max Dex bonus (instead of +3).

However, the OP was inquiring about just having the bronze breastplate and no other part of the armor which comes with it.

Obviously this is a DM call, I would rule that it would be equivalent to Studded Leather armor except that the Armor Check Penalty would be -2 and the Arcane Spell Failure would be 20%.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin
12-17-05, 06:23 PM Just ask your ref if you could use a very light bronze breastplate and have it use the same stats as a chain shirt.

Just assume the bronze breastplate is made thinner than normal and that the arm areas are extra large to allow greater flexibility.

Pay the cost for a Mastercrafted Chain shirt and it should work. After all in the end your not getting any amazing bonus from the item and there is a relatively logical way to make it work similarly (very light bronze Breastplate).

Instead of being a steel Breastplate equivalent make it use one half or even one third the normal thickness to make it very light. Should work out ok.
John Q. Mayhem
12-18-05, 04:18 PM Yeah, I've found that the best way for me to handle armor is just to have my players pick what they want name-wise and use whatever set of stats they feel like from the PHB armors.
Alchahest
12-18-05, 10:04 PM if it's purely an aesthetic you're going for, just reduce the AC bonus of the steel breastplate by one. or don't. just say it's the same thing with a different appearance. maybe Valenar bronze is as efficient as normal steel? who knows, who cares. just stat as a breastplate or as a breastplate junior.

also Vahenir, you can't figure weight per square inch unless there's a standard thickness.. which there isn't. now cubic inches, there, you have mass, volume, something for gravity to work on to provide "weight".
Rolof
12-19-05, 03:51 PM I actually found stats for a bronze breastplate, it's on DMG
page 144. Same as regular breastplate, but 4 AC and plus
4 to max dex. Since the OP wants it to be light armor, the
best solution seems to be Elaandrin's idea of having it be a
thin breastplate/chain shirt.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sae Cael Oanar 12-16-05, 07:58 PM	dunno if this should go in the eberron boards. im playing a valenar scout. i want to wear just a bronze breastplate, without the helemt and greaves, and was wondering if this could be a balanced light armor. bronze breastplate +2 ac +5 max dex -1 armor check penalty 25% arcane spell failure full speed it doesnt seem to overpower the other armors at all, and its how i picture my character. what do you all think?
Vahenir 12-16-05, 08:13 PM	It's crap. (No offense) -- I mean your character is taking a hit on it. It's functionally better than padded armour, but far crappier than leather armour. You're better off asking your DM if you can use leather armour stats and just call it a bronze breastplate.
Elric Lornhood 12-16-05, 10:41 PM	Reading several history books on classics, I seem to keep reading its a bit of a myth that bronze was so much the poorer compared to iron weapons and armor. What really put iron over the top wasn't performance, apparently, but that it was easier and more abundant to mine, make (since bronze is an alloy of copper and tin) and thus was much cheaper and therefore more readily available to more people. Helping along the developement of the citizen soldier "hoplites" of Greece and getting away from the warrior-king ideal of the bronze age.] I've seen this a few times now, about bronze not really being crappy compared to iron, and was surprised when I read it, myself.
Vahenir 12-16-05, 11:56 PM	Bronze isn't crappy. It is, however, weaker, more flexible (a bad thing in this case), and if I'm not mistaken it's also heavier per square inch than iron is. So in order for a bronze breastplate and an iron breastplate to be equal in terms of functional value -- the bronze one would have to be thicker to compensate for bronze being more flexible and weaker than iron, which would also make it much heavier and more uncomfortable to wear. But none of that is really material to this thread, is it?
Rolof 12-17-05, 10:48 AM	There used to be stats for bronze plate in second edition. If stats no longer exist for it in 3.5, I would say use the type relevant (in your case breastplate), with a -1 to the armor bonus, and +5 pounds to the weight (I think the previous poster who said it's heavier is correct). No need to change the spell failure chance that I can think of, unless your DM has a rule that bronze is more or less attuned to magic in their campaign. Maybe an additional -1 to the armor check penalty and subtract 1 from the max dex. So overall it would end up, in my opinion, as this: Armor +4 Max Dex +2 Check Penalty -5 35 lbs Looking at the chart though, it would be a medium armor, not light. I have no idea how much weight of the armor is in the greaves and all, good luck convincing your DM that removing those would make it qualify as light. Personally, I don't see it. I'm playing a ranger myself, I assume we have about the same needs and desires character-wise, I started play with masterwork studded leather (3 AC and no check penalties) and recently barely managed to afford a mithril chain shirt by selling off the old armor first. I'd suggest the same to you, if you can pull it off.
Shadowfax7 12-17-05, 11:38 AM	3rd ed. A&EG has stats for Bronze Breastplate armor as being the same as Steel Breastplate armor except for a +4 Armor bonus (instead of +5) and a +4 Max Dex bonus (instead of +3). However, the OP was inquiring about just having the bronze breastplate and no other part of the armor which comes with it. Obviously this is a DM call, I would rule that it would be equivalent to Studded Leather armor except that the Armor Check Penalty would be -2 and the Arcane Spell Failure would be 20%.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 12-17-05, 06:23 PM	Just ask your ref if you could use a very light bronze breastplate and have it use the same stats as a chain shirt. Just assume the bronze breastplate is made thinner than normal and that the arm areas are extra large to allow greater flexibility. Pay the cost for a Mastercrafted Chain shirt and it should work. After all in the end your not getting any amazing bonus from the item and there is a relatively logical way to make it work similarly (very light bronze Breastplate). Instead of being a steel Breastplate equivalent make it use one half or even one third the normal thickness to make it very light. Should work out ok.
John Q. Mayhem 12-18-05, 04:18 PM	Yeah, I've found that the best way for me to handle armor is just to have my players pick what they want name-wise and use whatever set of stats they feel like from the PHB armors.
Alchahest 12-18-05, 10:04 PM	if it's purely an aesthetic you're going for, just reduce the AC bonus of the steel breastplate by one. or don't. just say it's the same thing with a different appearance. maybe Valenar bronze is as efficient as normal steel? who knows, who cares. just stat as a breastplate or as a breastplate junior. also Vahenir, you can't figure weight per square inch unless there's a standard thickness.. which there isn't. now cubic inches, there, you have mass, volume, something for gravity to work on to provide "weight".
Rolof 12-19-05, 03:51 PM	I actually found stats for a bronze breastplate, it's on DMG page 144. Same as regular breastplate, but 4 AC and plus 4 to max dex. Since the OP wants it to be light armor, the best solution seems to be Elaandrin's idea of having it be a thin breastplate/chain shirt.