Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShubNiggurath 01-10-07, 11:32 AM	Advantage buckler: - leaves 1 hand free - can be used with a longbow with no penality - less ASF Advantage light shield - more HP - ? Is that so? What being with INT>3 would choose a light shield over a buckler? They give the same AC and the buckler leaves one hand completely free for casting spells!
jaelis 01-10-07, 11:33 AM	You can bash with a light shield, they can be made of wood, and they are a tad cheaper.
Harliquinn 01-10-07, 02:57 PM	You can bash with a light shield, they can be made of wood, and they are a tad cheaper. Darkwood Buckler is made of wood. Regardless of what the flavor text says, the price is ambiguous and the name clearly identifies it as a buckler.
jaelis 01-10-07, 02:59 PM	Says you.
risner 01-10-07, 10:24 PM	Darkwood Buckler is made of wood. Regardless of what the flavor text says, the price is ambiguous and the name clearly identifies it as a buckler. Darkwood Buckler is 100% absolutely no doubt a light shield. It says so right in the description. Light Shield can also be used to cast spells. Light Shield doesn't make TWF take a -1 penalty to offhand attacks.
Fallenangel359 01-10-07, 10:49 PM	light shield doesn't make twf with a -1... it makes twf impossible :P
Vintar 01-10-07, 10:54 PM	unless one is bashing with said light shield
Mitchell 01-10-07, 10:55 PM	light shield doesn't make twf with a -1... it makes twf impossible :P Not if you use the shield as your off-hand weapon. :cool:
Forged_Fury 01-11-07, 08:51 AM	Darkwood Buckler is made of wood. Regardless of what the flavor text says, the price is ambiguous and the name clearly identifies it as a buckler. Here we go again... +1 on it being a light shield. Look at every other magic shield description in the DMG. All but one or two follow the exact same description pattern. I posted it the last time this came up, but am too lazy to do it now. -Forged_Fury
Centauri 01-11-07, 08:56 PM	They give the same AC and the buckler leaves one hand completely free for casting spells! Not everyone casts spells. Not all ranged weapons require two hands. A light shield can have spikes (I guess a buckler can too, but just for show). A light shield still leaves the hand able to hold something, like a torch or a magic rod, so that advantage doesn't go completely to the buckler. Being able to bash is handy, though it's not everyone's cup of tea. Not everyone's going to have the Dex for two-weapon fighting. Better, I think, is always having a light weapon in hand for use in a grapple. If you can't hope to beat your opponent's grapple check and escape, you can always attack him. The attack's at -8 (-4 for an off-hand attack and -4 for attacking in a grapple) but at least it's something. But you know the real reason to use a light shield? Because bucklers are punks, that's why.
Bopple 01-11-07, 10:12 PM	You can cast spells with a light shield, but not with a heavy shield.
Cold Napalm 01-12-07, 03:33 AM	You can cast spells with a light shield, but not with a heavy shield. no...no you can't. It's in a faq or errata or something. The light shield does not leave a hand free.
Bopple 01-12-07, 06:57 AM	According to FAQ, yes, you can. But you have to hold your weapon with the shield hand, during the casting, which requires a move action - assuming it's equivalent to drawing a weapon.
sizbut 01-12-07, 04:49 PM	Darkwood Buckler is 100% absolutely no doubt a light shield. It says so right in the description. You forgot to say "period forever cross my heart and hope to die" after '100% abosolutely no doubt'... ... and you forgot to repeat "all bucklers are light shields but not all light shields are bucklers - just those with Buckler in their name".
Plothos 01-12-07, 05:19 PM	According to FAQ, yes, you can. But you have to hold your weapon with the shield hand, during the casting, which requires a move action - assuming it's equivalent to drawing a weapon.By that reasoning, you can cast spells with a heavy shield just by dropping your weapon, a free action. My point being, when somebody says "you can cast spells while wearing a light shield" the natural reading of that is to say that it leaves a hand free to cast spells with that hand. This is not the case. It leaves a hand free to hold something which can make it easy to free up another hand for the casting of spells without having to drop a weapon. That's very different. Anyway, the transfer thing as a move action is little better than just sheathing your weapon. You don't provoke, but is that worth 1 AC? Eh. If it's worth 1 AC, it's probably worth the reduced HP/bashing/etc. to not have to deal with moving the weapon around at all.
Bopple 01-12-07, 05:30 PM	Aye, it does not mean you can cast freely, but it's not that demanding to use a move action to cast a spell, either. But dropping a weapon and retrieving it, is practically unuseable. And imo, we must be able to cast spells freely while wearing a light shield.
Plothos 01-12-07, 06:24 PM	And imo, we must be able to cast spells freely while wearing a light shield.1. Why? 2. What's wrong with asking you to use a buckler instead?
Plothos 01-12-07, 06:29 PM	But dropping a weapon and retrieving it, is practically unuseable.It is very annoying, but not too bad. I've seen situations where it'd be preferable to switching hands like you suggest. Basically any time you aren't being threatened, you can save yourself a move action by dropping the weapon. It's a move action to pick it up, but it was a move action to transfer it back to the weapon hand too. So say you and your friends are hit with a volley of arrows. Cleric rushes to the aid of injured friend (move action) and drops his weapon when he gets there, then casts a cure spell. Next round he picks it up and has a standard action left. Compare that to transferring hands and you'll see what I mean. Now, of course, even with a light shield, you have the option of dropping the weapon, so you do gain by having the light shield over a heavy one in this respect. But you do pay 1 AC for it. I'd rather lose bashing and go buckler, myself, but to each his own. :)
draconic_swine 01-12-07, 06:51 PM	You forgot to say "period forever cross my heart and hope to die" after '100% abosolutely no doubt'... ... and you forgot to repeat "all bucklers are light shields but not all light shields are bucklers - just those with Buckler in their name". This is true ... other than the fact that nowhere in the buckler's description does is it classified as a type of light shield.
fatal error 01-12-07, 11:07 PM	According to FAQ, yes, you can. But you have to hold your weapon with the shield hand, during the casting, which requires a move action - assuming it's equivalent to drawing a weapon. Where does it say swapping hands for your weapon is a move action? I'd think it would be significantly faster than drawing it, but that's just me.
risner 01-13-07, 12:34 AM	This is true ... other than the fact that nowhere in the buckler's description does is it classified as a type of light shield. Don't worry about him, he is just trying to be funny. He isn't serious with his claim that all Bucklers are Light Shields in terms of D&D mechanics. He couldn't possibly believe that is true.
Cold Napalm 01-13-07, 02:56 AM	Where does it say swapping hands for your weapon is a move action? I'd think it would be significantly faster than drawing it, but that's just me. It's in the PHB or DMG faq I believe.
Centauri 01-13-07, 02:22 PM	I once let a cleric use a lanyard on his warhammer, so he could drop the weapon to cast spells and then retrieve it as a free action. Nowadays, I'd probably still let him use the lanyard, but still require a move action to re-equip the weapon, since there has to be some disadvantage to casting spells.
Centauri 01-13-07, 02:31 PM	I once had a cleric player use a lanyard for his weapon, so he could drop it, cast a spell, and retrieve it for free. Nowadays, I'd let him use the lanyard so the weapon wouldn't be lost or picked up by someone else, but that would be its only advantage. Retrieving a hanging weapon would still be a move action. There has to be some disadvantage to being able to cast spells. Also, druids can't use bucklers and since it's all about optimization anyway no being with INT>3 is going to play anything other than a druid, there's clearly a need for light shields.
sizbut 01-13-07, 07:58 PM	Don't worry about him, he is just trying to be funny. He isn't serious with his claim that all Bucklers are Light Shields in terms of D&D mechanics. He couldn't possibly believe that is true. Yeh, I'm mad, I must be because I don't agree with you or forgedfury or any of the other savants. Of course a buckler isn't a type of light shield (muffled laughter), you're SO right, its a mysterious type of non-shield that gives a shield AC!
pres_man 01-14-07, 12:50 PM	If switching hands is a move action, what is shifting from a one-handed grip to a two-handed grip?
Eikre 01-14-07, 06:33 PM	I forget where I've seen it, but it's been suggested in the FAQ or sage or something that switching hands on a weapon, taking one off or putting one on, is a free action. Thus, to switch hands, you would put one hand on as a free action and take the other off as a free action.
fatal error 01-14-07, 09:01 PM	Yeh, I'm mad, I must be because I don't agree with you or forgedfury or any of the other savants. Of course a buckler isn't a type of light shield (muffled laughter), you're SO right, its a mysterious type of non-shield that gives a shield AC! If a Buckler is the same thing as a Light Shield, then why does it need a separate entry? And a Buckler is a shield, it just isn't a light shield or a heavy shield, or a tower shield, but it is a shield like all the others. Which is why it is, you know, under the Shield heading on the tables. Do you believe the Scimitar, Falchion, and Rapier to not be swords simply because they don't have "sword" in their name?
Norsesmithy 01-14-07, 10:22 PM	Blah blah blah. This is why a light shield is situationally better than a buckler. +5 bashing light shield with +5 defending spikes. Hello +11 or something to AC.
Morgotho 01-14-07, 10:46 PM	Blah blah blah. This is why a light shield is situationally better than a buckler. +5 bashing light shield with +5 defending spikes. Hello +11 or something to AC. Norse, I had trouble believing that one, but after checking the PHB and SRD, it looks like you're right. I even looked into the FAQ and Errata to be sure... If correct, then you are a genious. I think I am now going to have to try a little rule-mongering with my DM next week to take advantage of magically enhanced spikes.
jaelis 01-14-07, 11:45 PM	Could do the same thing with a +5 buckler and +5 defending armor spikes, though. And you wouldn't need to burn a feat on Improved Shield Bash.
Norsesmithy 01-15-07, 12:35 AM	No, you can't, because bucklers can't have spikes, IIRC.
jaelis 01-15-07, 01:46 AM	Oddly enough, armor spikes go on your armor, not on your shield :)
Norsesmithy 01-15-07, 01:51 AM	Yes, but doing that demands that you where an armour that spikes can be attached to. Not all DMs allow spiked padded armour or spiked leather. some only allow stiff hard armours like breastplate, splint, banded, half and full plate to get spikes. Besides, what if have more than +9 dex?
Tuneless Bard 01-15-07, 03:31 PM	Im in the camp that bucklers are for wimps... Light shields have more hp... than can be used as impromptu weapons...or as your standard off-hand weapon... they can be thrown with the shield throw feat... its also half as expensive... oh....and did i say that bucklers are for wimps? No fighter worth his salt is ever gunna be caught with a buckler...