buckler with a 2 hander [Archive] - Wizards Community

buckler with a 2 hander [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dead_heat
03-10-07, 05:12 PM hi, i was wondering about the effects of using a buckler with a 2 hander. normally you take -1 to attack rolls if you have it attached and i read that you lose AC if you attack with your off hand. does that include using your offhand to help with the 2 handed motion? also is there any way (other than animated shield) to keep the AC or prevent negatives on your attack roll? i thought maybe a masterwork buckler would do it, because that would reduce the armor check penalty from -1 to 0.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-10-07, 05:23 PM There is no way to remove the -1 penalty from the buckler- it is not an armor check penalty, it is a unique penalty from wearing it on your weapon arm, just like a tower shield's -2.

Although Improved Buckler Defense does not explicitly mention two-handed weapons, it does qualify and allow you to retain its AC bonus. Using a two-hander = using your offhand to wield a weapon. While I can't remember the exact logical trap atm (and I'm sure someone will chime in with it soon), you have to accept that or else the universe implodes.
dead_heat
03-11-07, 12:05 AM Improved Buckler Defense does not explicitly mention two-handed weapons, it does qualify and allow you to retain its AC bonus.

thanks. do you have the book reference to that feat so i could maybe get it next time i have the chance? i've never read it.
Gnarl
03-11-07, 02:23 PM thanks. do you have the book reference to that feat so i could maybe get it next time i have the chance? i've never read it.

It's in Complete Warrior. But if you read carefully the buckler description, you'll notice that you can use your buckler and keep your bonus to AC. I know it's full of cheese but that's what the wording says (or doesn't say).
Nezkrul
03-11-07, 05:48 PM But if you read carefully the buckler description, you'll notice that you can use your buckler and keep your bonus to AC. I know it's full of cheese but that's what the wording says (or doesn't say).

Heh. Read-
Buckler

This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

You can’t bash someone with a buckler.
emphasis mine.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-11-07, 08:32 PM There we go, I just remembered. Improved Buckler Defense lets you keep your shield AC even when using your off-hand to wield a weapon. If you try to get overly literal, and claim that two-handed weapons don't qualify as using your off-hand, you run into the last line of the buckler's description: "if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus". This would mean two-handed weapons never lose the AC bonus in the first place, because the buckler doesn't say anything about two-handed weapons and AC.

So either IBD works for two-handers, or you never needed it in the first place. So yeah, no one rules the second way. Which means two-handers can pick up the feat to keep their shield AC.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dead_heat 03-10-07, 05:12 PM	hi, i was wondering about the effects of using a buckler with a 2 hander. normally you take -1 to attack rolls if you have it attached and i read that you lose AC if you attack with your off hand. does that include using your offhand to help with the 2 handed motion? also is there any way (other than animated shield) to keep the AC or prevent negatives on your attack roll? i thought maybe a masterwork buckler would do it, because that would reduce the armor check penalty from -1 to 0.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-10-07, 05:23 PM	There is no way to remove the -1 penalty from the buckler- it is not an armor check penalty, it is a unique penalty from wearing it on your weapon arm, just like a tower shield's -2. Although Improved Buckler Defense does not explicitly mention two-handed weapons, it does qualify and allow you to retain its AC bonus. Using a two-hander = using your offhand to wield a weapon. While I can't remember the exact logical trap atm (and I'm sure someone will chime in with it soon), you have to accept that or else the universe implodes.
dead_heat 03-11-07, 12:05 AM	Improved Buckler Defense does not explicitly mention two-handed weapons, it does qualify and allow you to retain its AC bonus. thanks. do you have the book reference to that feat so i could maybe get it next time i have the chance? i've never read it.
Gnarl 03-11-07, 02:23 PM	thanks. do you have the book reference to that feat so i could maybe get it next time i have the chance? i've never read it. It's in Complete Warrior. But if you read carefully the buckler description, you'll notice that you can use your buckler and keep your bonus to AC. I know it's full of cheese but that's what the wording says (or doesn't say).
Nezkrul 03-11-07, 05:48 PM	But if you read carefully the buckler description, you'll notice that you can use your buckler and keep your bonus to AC. I know it's full of cheese but that's what the wording says (or doesn't say). Heh. Read- Buckler This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. You can’t bash someone with a buckler. emphasis mine.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-11-07, 08:32 PM	There we go, I just remembered. Improved Buckler Defense lets you keep your shield AC even when using your off-hand to wield a weapon. If you try to get overly literal, and claim that two-handed weapons don't qualify as using your off-hand, you run into the last line of the buckler's description: "if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus". This would mean two-handed weapons never lose the AC bonus in the first place, because the buckler doesn't say anything about two-handed weapons and AC. So either IBD works for two-handers, or you never needed it in the first place. So yeah, no one rules the second way. Which means two-handers can pick up the feat to keep their shield AC.