bucklers and 2-H Weap [Archive] - Wizards Community

bucklers and 2-H Weap [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlindGuardian
06-28-06, 11:56 PM does a PC who uses a buclker and attacks with a 2H weapon lose his bonus to AC until the beginning of his next turn? I think so, but my DM thinks you only lose the bonus when you two weapons, and not with a 2H.
GreatWyrm
06-29-06, 12:37 AM It isn't 100% precise in it's wording, but since it says earlier in the description that using that hand for either a light weapon or helping hold a two-handed weapon gives you the -1 to attack, that the same would apply for all other rulings.
Majick
06-29-06, 12:29 PM Well, in terms of AC bonus, you lose the AC for the round in which you use the "buckler arm" e.g. Big sword man swings two handed sword, AC from buckler gone until his turn comes back around. Improved Buckler Defense provides you with the ability to use the buckler, attack and still retain the AC bonus even after doing so.

BUT, there is no way to get rid of the -1 Armor check penalty to your attack roles (unless it's like, masterworked or made of mithril or something, which would reduce the penalty to zero) :cool:
SolenVlos
06-29-06, 12:35 PM sadly, I can't convice myself enough that IBD can be used with 2-handeds to convice my DM.

I belive it only works when using two weapons.
tarkin
06-29-06, 01:46 PM The existence of IBD and ISB makes it clear that a single feat should let you retain your AC bonus while making an attack.

Whether you call that Feat Improved Buckler Defense (IBD) or Buckler+Two handed Weapon Style (BTHWS) is not that important.

Considering that TWF is a feat intensive concept, I doubt many people will need a single feat to do both TWF and THW style, so the fact that it might have to be a seperate feat is mostly irrelevant.
ClobberinTime
06-29-06, 04:44 PM I think you guys are misinterpreting the text in the PHB, i.e. I think that when using a two handed weapon or a bow, you can use a buckler but in the two handed weapon case it causes a -1 to your attack.

If you use a weapon in your off hand you need to take the feat improved buckler defense in order to both attack with the off hand weapon and get the shield bonus from the buckler.

I know this is pretty imbalanced towards using two handed weapons but hey what are you going to do?
ClobberinTime
06-29-06, 06:15 PM You know what I recant- The wording in the SRD under the description of the buckler is more clear, or at least not as fuzzy as my memory of the PHB.

The SRD says:

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. You can’t bash someone with a buckler.

Ok so it seems to me that you can carry the buckler and attack with a bow at no -1, or attack while carrying (but not using) the buckler at a -1 penalty, regardless of whether you use a 2-handed attack or an off-hand attack.

The end implies that if you use your off-hand to attack regardless of if the attack is being used to swing a 2-handed weapon, or use an off hand weapon, you lose the bucklers bonus to AC. Because they are both considered wielding a weapon in your off hand.

I belive the Improved Buckler Defense description says that you can use the off-hand to wield a weapon and still get the defensive bonus, i.e. using your off hand to attack with a single handed weapon counts as wielding a weapon in that hand, as does wielding a two handed weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlindGuardian 06-28-06, 11:56 PM	does a PC who uses a buclker and attacks with a 2H weapon lose his bonus to AC until the beginning of his next turn? I think so, but my DM thinks you only lose the bonus when you two weapons, and not with a 2H.
GreatWyrm 06-29-06, 12:37 AM	It isn't 100% precise in it's wording, but since it says earlier in the description that using that hand for either a light weapon or helping hold a two-handed weapon gives you the -1 to attack, that the same would apply for all other rulings.
Majick 06-29-06, 12:29 PM	Well, in terms of AC bonus, you lose the AC for the round in which you use the "buckler arm" e.g. Big sword man swings two handed sword, AC from buckler gone until his turn comes back around. Improved Buckler Defense provides you with the ability to use the buckler, attack and still retain the AC bonus even after doing so. BUT, there is no way to get rid of the -1 Armor check penalty to your attack roles (unless it's like, masterworked or made of mithril or something, which would reduce the penalty to zero) :cool:
SolenVlos 06-29-06, 12:35 PM	sadly, I can't convice myself enough that IBD can be used with 2-handeds to convice my DM. I belive it only works when using two weapons.
tarkin 06-29-06, 01:46 PM	The existence of IBD and ISB makes it clear that a single feat should let you retain your AC bonus while making an attack. Whether you call that Feat Improved Buckler Defense (IBD) or Buckler+Two handed Weapon Style (BTHWS) is not that important. Considering that TWF is a feat intensive concept, I doubt many people will need a single feat to do both TWF and THW style, so the fact that it might have to be a seperate feat is mostly irrelevant.
ClobberinTime 06-29-06, 04:44 PM	I think you guys are misinterpreting the text in the PHB, i.e. I think that when using a two handed weapon or a bow, you can use a buckler but in the two handed weapon case it causes a -1 to your attack. If you use a weapon in your off hand you need to take the feat improved buckler defense in order to both attack with the off hand weapon and get the shield bonus from the buckler. I know this is pretty imbalanced towards using two handed weapons but hey what are you going to do?
ClobberinTime 06-29-06, 06:15 PM	You know what I recant- The wording in the SRD under the description of the buckler is more clear, or at least not as fuzzy as my memory of the PHB. The SRD says: Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. You can’t bash someone with a buckler. Ok so it seems to me that you can carry the buckler and attack with a bow at no -1, or attack while carrying (but not using) the buckler at a -1 penalty, regardless of whether you use a 2-handed attack or an off-hand attack. The end implies that if you use your off-hand to attack regardless of if the attack is being used to swing a 2-handed weapon, or use an off hand weapon, you lose the bucklers bonus to AC. Because they are both considered wielding a weapon in your off hand. I belive the Improved Buckler Defense description says that you can use the off-hand to wield a weapon and still get the defensive bonus, i.e. using your off hand to attack with a single handed weapon counts as wielding a weapon in that hand, as does wielding a two handed weapon.