Bucklers & 2-Handed Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bucklers & 2-Handed Weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
1 ton ghost
09-23-07, 02:25 AM i know someone said something on this, but after further evaluation in the PHB and Complete Warrior, i'm not 100% here.

essentially, can you use a buckler in 2-handed weapon combat?

armor descriptor in PHB p.124, "...you can use your shield arm to wield a weapon (wheather off-hand TWF or assisinting 2-handed weapon) but you take a -1 on attack rolls...this penalty stacks w/ those that may apply for fighting w/ your off hand and for fighting w/ 2 weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don't get the buckler's AC bonus for the rest of the round."

my understanding is/was thus, you can (for 2-handed weaponry), but of course there's the penalty of -1 which Ftr's loathe understandably. i've even seen illustrations of 2-handers w/ bucklers strapped (redgar i think) and so on, but this may be artistic license and nothing more, nothing mechanical.

flavor wise, i understood for TWF, i mean you are going on the offense heavilly (Full-Attack) to which you sacrifice AC in the karmic bloodshed kind of thinking. w/ 2-handed, you may get extra dmg., but you're more likely to hit w/ TWF.

the descriptor is not entirely clear, well, clear for TWF anyway. wtf does this mean specifically? i think they're stressing TWF and not 2-handed, especially given the follow up feat in CompWar which is explicitly TWF. that is, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but w/ Improved Buckler Defense you can for TWF anyway. i couldn't find any literature on a feat allowing Buckler AC when 2-handing, hence i was thinking you could do it, just at -1 as is.

are you construed as having a weapon in your offhand if you're just 2-handing? or is it only implied in TWF?
Tedronai
09-23-07, 02:42 AM RAW, in a strictly literal reading, you absolutely can use Improved Buckler Defense to gain your shield bonus while using a 2-handed weapon. You have 'a weapon in your off hand', and are attacking with that weapon. The fact that that weapon is also in your main hand is of no consequence to the wording of the feat.

Of course, some people will argue that this is not the intent of the feat, and rule against this interpretation. I won't argue their right to do that, it's their game, and they can make any ruling they please.
Jaxgaret
09-23-07, 02:46 AM I forget who posted it, but on these boards somewhere (probably in the archives) there is posted a very logical, concise reasoning for why IBD must work with THF.

Basically, it's not just a RAW reading of it - the rules break down if you rule it any other way.
1 ton ghost
09-23-07, 03:08 AM RAW implies you can use a buckler w/ 2-handed weapon but lose the bonus then and still take -1 to attack?

sucks. apart from an Animated Shield, you have absolutely no shield bonus when 2-handing...

not the answer i want, but i'm used to it, appreciate your honesty/time for what it's worth.
i would agree w/ you though to allow Imp.BuclerDefense for 2-handers, but you should have to specify the difference. that is, you might have to take Imp. BucklerDefense twice, 1 for TWF, 1 for THW as the fighting styles are completely different.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
1 ton ghost 09-23-07, 02:25 AM	i know someone said something on this, but after further evaluation in the PHB and Complete Warrior, i'm not 100% here. essentially, can you use a buckler in 2-handed weapon combat? armor descriptor in PHB p.124, "...you can use your shield arm to wield a weapon (wheather off-hand TWF or assisinting 2-handed weapon) but you take a -1 on attack rolls...this penalty stacks w/ those that may apply for fighting w/ your off hand and for fighting w/ 2 weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don't get the buckler's AC bonus for the rest of the round." my understanding is/was thus, you can (for 2-handed weaponry), but of course there's the penalty of -1 which Ftr's loathe understandably. i've even seen illustrations of 2-handers w/ bucklers strapped (redgar i think) and so on, but this may be artistic license and nothing more, nothing mechanical. flavor wise, i understood for TWF, i mean you are going on the offense heavilly (Full-Attack) to which you sacrifice AC in the karmic bloodshed kind of thinking. w/ 2-handed, you may get extra dmg., but you're more likely to hit w/ TWF. the descriptor is not entirely clear, well, clear for TWF anyway. wtf does this mean specifically? i think they're stressing TWF and not 2-handed, especially given the follow up feat in CompWar which is explicitly TWF. that is, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but w/ Improved Buckler Defense you can for TWF anyway. i couldn't find any literature on a feat allowing Buckler AC when 2-handing, hence i was thinking you could do it, just at -1 as is. are you construed as having a weapon in your offhand if you're just 2-handing? or is it only implied in TWF?
Tedronai 09-23-07, 02:42 AM	RAW, in a strictly literal reading, you absolutely can use Improved Buckler Defense to gain your shield bonus while using a 2-handed weapon. You have 'a weapon in your off hand', and are attacking with that weapon. The fact that that weapon is also in your main hand is of no consequence to the wording of the feat. Of course, some people will argue that this is not the intent of the feat, and rule against this interpretation. I won't argue their right to do that, it's their game, and they can make any ruling they please.
Jaxgaret 09-23-07, 02:46 AM	I forget who posted it, but on these boards somewhere (probably in the archives) there is posted a very logical, concise reasoning for why IBD must work with THF. Basically, it's not just a RAW reading of it - the rules break down if you rule it any other way.
1 ton ghost 09-23-07, 03:08 AM	RAW implies you can use a buckler w/ 2-handed weapon but lose the bonus then and still take -1 to attack? sucks. apart from an Animated Shield, you have absolutely no shield bonus when 2-handing... not the answer i want, but i'm used to it, appreciate your honesty/time for what it's worth. i would agree w/ you though to allow Imp.BuclerDefense for 2-handers, but you should have to specify the difference. that is, you might have to take Imp. BucklerDefense twice, 1 for TWF, 1 for THW as the fighting styles are completely different.