Build a castle/keep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build a castle/keep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dragonseth
02-16-06, 01:05 PM One of us wants to build a castle/fort thing, but we can't find a price for it. Also, we have leadership and followers, so is it possible to just buy stone and mortar and have them build it? Also, can we like get ballistas on top?
tarkin
02-16-06, 01:14 PM The DMG has prices for buildings.

But the first thing you should do is buy property.

Cause if you just up and build a castle, some duke or king is going to come around and say "Thank you for building me a castle on my land. Now get out or I will send my army of Paladins to kick you out".
dragonseth
02-16-06, 01:28 PM I found the price thanks, but how much would land cost? Also, would us having guys to provide for labor reduce the cost at all? My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? We found ballistas too, btw. It says one Medium creature can take 2 full-round actions to load it. Can 2 Medium creatures reduce that?
Tolby
02-16-06, 01:49 PM A good place to start for this is the stronghold builders guidebook. This will let you build some really cool strongholds and such. Other than that I would say work with the DM about what ou can do. Swearing fealty to a king can get you a land grant. Buying it from royalty can also get you land. Performing great deeds can get you land. Perhaps a town that is always under pressure from evil guys would appreciate your castle being nearby. They could donate the land for it and maybe even help with the labor.

An really cheap way to gain one is to offer to garrison and already established stronghold. You don't pay but you don't call the shots either.
mvincent
02-16-06, 01:51 PM Agreed. The stronghold builder's guide should answer these (and any future) questions.
ScipioX
02-16-06, 03:31 PM I found the price thanks, but how much would land cost? Also, would us having guys to provide for labor reduce the cost at all? My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? We found ballistas too, btw. It says one Medium creature can take 2 full-round actions to load it. Can 2 Medium creatures reduce that?

I don't think I even want to know how he got to 42 strength.

In any case, that character would be handy at general labor. Probably be able to do the work of 4 or 5 unskilled laborers. Thus you could reduce the price by the cost of 4 laborers X the total build time.

The stronghold guide, or the old Castles guide are both handy. I imagine they could both be found pretty easily on eBay.
tarkin
02-16-06, 04:18 PM Yeah. Truthfully, it is the Mages that do the building.

Wall of Stone.
Repeat.
Mirtek
02-16-06, 04:22 PM My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? Well, since he's obviously a demigod, it would be much easier for him to simply use his divine power to will the desired structure into existance :P

PS: Ups, sorry. Just reread it, to do this he needs to be an intermediate god :D
dragonseth
02-16-06, 05:18 PM To stop the cracks about the strength: Natural 18 + Anthropormphic African Elephant(12) + Feral(6) + Belt of Giant Strength(6) + 1 at 4th level =43(just realized he got the point at 4th level)
Chrono Nexus
02-16-06, 09:46 PM Originally posted by Tolby
A good place to start for this is the stronghold builders guidebook. This will let you build some really cool strongholds and such.
I almost completely agree. The stronghold builder's guide has plenty of good ideas and a fantastic rules system for figuring labor, locations and such... but the costs of building a normal building are grossly overpriced. No commoner could ever afford the straw huts they live in according to the prices. I suggest something simpler, and more fun... take a castle rather then making one. It might cost a few lives, but it seems like paying for a war would be less expensive anyway.
jasper
02-17-06, 08:35 AM if you can, get a copy 1e dmg it has a price list by part for castles build and build time.
Land price varies so that is up to dm. Me I generally make the adventures clear out the monsters, pay some money (10 to 99.9% of their loot), then start designing the castle.
Vahenir
02-17-06, 03:37 PM but the costs of building a normal building are grossly overpriced. No commoner could ever afford the straw huts they live in according to the prices.

Correction: No commoner could ever afford to buy a house or have one built for him.

Speaking logistically, commoners built their own houses with the help of their family and the rest of the community. They don't need to be able to 'afford' it - because they're not really paying anything.

That isn't to say, though, that the entire D&D economy isn't nonsensical. We all know it is.
Thindelock
02-17-06, 04:52 PM The prices in Stronghold Builder's Guide are decent guidelines, but work better combined with the DMG2.

The prices listed in SBG are assuming you take a very hands-off approach and have it built for you. If the PARTY (not a single character) is building this keep, however, there are several ways to cut corners:

1) Raw labor: someone have the Leadership feat? Good. Put your devoted followers to work. Refusing to pay them a fair wage for their effort will probably lower your Leadership score, which is reflective of some getting fed up and quitting. But, you can multiply your number of followers x the build time in days x the cost of an unskilled laborer in DMG2, and knock that off the SBG price. Elephant-boy can actually help out by replacing 4 unskilled laborers (roughly).

2) Does your Wizard, or anyone else, have Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering? Take the price for hiring an architect and/or engineer (DMG2) for each day of the build off the cost of the keep. Of course, your in-party architect has to make a check to actually successfully design and oversee the project... failing that check would certainly suck.

3) Got a druid, ranger, or someone else with Handle Animal? Animals were usually used to cart supplies. If you're dead-set on saving cash, have nature-boy charm or mundanely persuade wild animals to do the work for you. The DM would need to establish how much money this would save, but it's safe to assume that you're otherwise paying an animal handler (DMG) and some amount for the animals per day. As a DM, I'd assume 24 silver per day for the animals (amount for "ships passage" for a day assuming 1mph; seems a rough equivalent of horsepower, but I'm not claiming to be an expert on this).

4) Want traps? Does anyone have Craft:Trapsmithing? Make use of it. Same goes for locksmithing, etc etc.

Long-and-short: yes, you can nickle-and-dime it down, but remember that each 8-hour workday you spend lowering the price by a few gold is an 8-hour day of adventuring you could spend getting a few hundred gold. It's cool RP-wise to have a hand in the build (especially if one or more characters are stingy misers), but it's far more efficient to just let the NPCs do their thang.
Vanigo
02-17-06, 05:05 PM Correction: No commoner could ever afford to buy a house or have one built for him.

Speaking logistically, commoners built their own houses with the help of their family and the rest of the community. They don't need to be able to 'afford' it - because they're not really paying anything.
What about materials? IIRC, only 30% of a building's cost is labor.
ScipioX
02-18-06, 02:29 PM Which is why commoners steal stone from old ruins or cut down trees for their raw materials.

Wizards could probably help reduce the cost of raw materials by using wall of iron and wall of stone. Personally, however, I'd rule that the iron and stone aren't of high quality from those spells, since the intent of the spell isn't to provide raw materials.
Vanigo
02-18-06, 02:48 PM Personally, however, I'd rule that the iron and stone aren't of high quality from those spells, since the intent of the spell isn't to provide raw materials.
But the iron and stone they create has exactly the same HP and hardness as normal iron and stone. Also, the SBG lets a sufficiently high level spellcaster create stone walls for free with wall of stone.
Vahenir
02-19-06, 12:44 AM What about materials? IIRC, only 30% of a building's cost is labor.

As was pointed out, peasants would gather their own materials. By and large peasants did not use stone anywhere in the framework of their homes unless they were in an area where large pieces of it were readily available. Same goes for any other material. Use what's available.

In the plains beside a forest, for example, peasant homes will be made of wood. In the desert they're made of animal hide. In muddy regions they're made of brick. It's also worth noting that, historically, villages simply were not built (without a wealthy count or landholder funding the affair) in any area where materials were not readily available.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonseth 02-16-06, 01:05 PM	One of us wants to build a castle/fort thing, but we can't find a price for it. Also, we have leadership and followers, so is it possible to just buy stone and mortar and have them build it? Also, can we like get ballistas on top?
tarkin 02-16-06, 01:14 PM	The DMG has prices for buildings. But the first thing you should do is buy property. Cause if you just up and build a castle, some duke or king is going to come around and say "Thank you for building me a castle on my land. Now get out or I will send my army of Paladins to kick you out".
dragonseth 02-16-06, 01:28 PM	I found the price thanks, but how much would land cost? Also, would us having guys to provide for labor reduce the cost at all? My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? We found ballistas too, btw. It says one Medium creature can take 2 full-round actions to load it. Can 2 Medium creatures reduce that?
Tolby 02-16-06, 01:49 PM	A good place to start for this is the stronghold builders guidebook. This will let you build some really cool strongholds and such. Other than that I would say work with the DM about what ou can do. Swearing fealty to a king can get you a land grant. Buying it from royalty can also get you land. Performing great deeds can get you land. Perhaps a town that is always under pressure from evil guys would appreciate your castle being nearby. They could donate the land for it and maybe even help with the labor. An really cheap way to gain one is to offer to garrison and already established stronghold. You don't pay but you don't call the shots either.
mvincent 02-16-06, 01:51 PM	Agreed. The stronghold builder's guide should answer these (and any future) questions.
ScipioX 02-16-06, 03:31 PM	I found the price thanks, but how much would land cost? Also, would us having guys to provide for labor reduce the cost at all? My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? We found ballistas too, btw. It says one Medium creature can take 2 full-round actions to load it. Can 2 Medium creatures reduce that? I don't think I even want to know how he got to 42 strength. In any case, that character would be handy at general labor. Probably be able to do the work of 4 or 5 unskilled laborers. Thus you could reduce the price by the cost of 4 laborers X the total build time. The stronghold guide, or the old Castles guide are both handy. I imagine they could both be found pretty easily on eBay.
tarkin 02-16-06, 04:18 PM	Yeah. Truthfully, it is the Mages that do the building. Wall of Stone. Repeat.
Mirtek 02-16-06, 04:22 PM	My friend is asserting that with 42 strength, he can rip up trees and build a log cabin for free. Is that feasable? Well, since he's obviously a demigod, it would be much easier for him to simply use his divine power to will the desired structure into existance :P PS: Ups, sorry. Just reread it, to do this he needs to be an intermediate god :D
dragonseth 02-16-06, 05:18 PM	To stop the cracks about the strength: Natural 18 + Anthropormphic African Elephant(12) + Feral(6) + Belt of Giant Strength(6) + 1 at 4th level =43(just realized he got the point at 4th level)
Chrono Nexus 02-16-06, 09:46 PM	Originally posted by Tolby A good place to start for this is the stronghold builders guidebook. This will let you build some really cool strongholds and such. I almost completely agree. The stronghold builder's guide has plenty of good ideas and a fantastic rules system for figuring labor, locations and such... but the costs of building a normal building are grossly overpriced. No commoner could ever afford the straw huts they live in according to the prices. I suggest something simpler, and more fun... take a castle rather then making one. It might cost a few lives, but it seems like paying for a war would be less expensive anyway.
jasper 02-17-06, 08:35 AM	if you can, get a copy 1e dmg it has a price list by part for castles build and build time. Land price varies so that is up to dm. Me I generally make the adventures clear out the monsters, pay some money (10 to 99.9% of their loot), then start designing the castle.
Vahenir 02-17-06, 03:37 PM	but the costs of building a normal building are grossly overpriced. No commoner could ever afford the straw huts they live in according to the prices. Correction: No commoner could ever afford to buy a house or have one built for him. Speaking logistically, commoners built their own houses with the help of their family and the rest of the community. They don't need to be able to 'afford' it - because they're not really paying anything. That isn't to say, though, that the entire D&D economy isn't nonsensical. We all know it is.
Thindelock 02-17-06, 04:52 PM	The prices in Stronghold Builder's Guide are decent guidelines, but work better combined with the DMG2. The prices listed in SBG are assuming you take a very hands-off approach and have it built for you. If the PARTY (not a single character) is building this keep, however, there are several ways to cut corners: 1) Raw labor: someone have the Leadership feat? Good. Put your devoted followers to work. Refusing to pay them a fair wage for their effort will probably lower your Leadership score, which is reflective of some getting fed up and quitting. But, you can multiply your number of followers x the build time in days x the cost of an unskilled laborer in DMG2, and knock that off the SBG price. Elephant-boy can actually help out by replacing 4 unskilled laborers (roughly). 2) Does your Wizard, or anyone else, have Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering? Take the price for hiring an architect and/or engineer (DMG2) for each day of the build off the cost of the keep. Of course, your in-party architect has to make a check to actually successfully design and oversee the project... failing that check would certainly suck. 3) Got a druid, ranger, or someone else with Handle Animal? Animals were usually used to cart supplies. If you're dead-set on saving cash, have nature-boy charm or mundanely persuade wild animals to do the work for you. The DM would need to establish how much money this would save, but it's safe to assume that you're otherwise paying an animal handler (DMG) and some amount for the animals per day. As a DM, I'd assume 24 silver per day for the animals (amount for "ships passage" for a day assuming 1mph; seems a rough equivalent of horsepower, but I'm not claiming to be an expert on this). 4) Want traps? Does anyone have Craft:Trapsmithing? Make use of it. Same goes for locksmithing, etc etc. Long-and-short: yes, you can nickle-and-dime it down, but remember that each 8-hour workday you spend lowering the price by a few gold is an 8-hour day of adventuring you could spend getting a few hundred gold. It's cool RP-wise to have a hand in the build (especially if one or more characters are stingy misers), but it's far more efficient to just let the NPCs do their thang.
Vanigo 02-17-06, 05:05 PM	Correction: No commoner could ever afford to buy a house or have one built for him. Speaking logistically, commoners built their own houses with the help of their family and the rest of the community. They don't need to be able to 'afford' it - because they're not really paying anything. What about materials? IIRC, only 30% of a building's cost is labor.
ScipioX 02-18-06, 02:29 PM	Which is why commoners steal stone from old ruins or cut down trees for their raw materials. Wizards could probably help reduce the cost of raw materials by using wall of iron and wall of stone. Personally, however, I'd rule that the iron and stone aren't of high quality from those spells, since the intent of the spell isn't to provide raw materials.
Vanigo 02-18-06, 02:48 PM	Personally, however, I'd rule that the iron and stone aren't of high quality from those spells, since the intent of the spell isn't to provide raw materials. But the iron and stone they create has exactly the same HP and hardness as normal iron and stone. Also, the SBG lets a sufficiently high level spellcaster create stone walls for free with wall of stone.
Vahenir 02-19-06, 12:44 AM	What about materials? IIRC, only 30% of a building's cost is labor. As was pointed out, peasants would gather their own materials. By and large peasants did not use stone anywhere in the framework of their homes unless they were in an area where large pieces of it were readily available. Same goes for any other material. Use what's available. In the plains beside a forest, for example, peasant homes will be made of wood. In the desert they're made of animal hide. In muddy regions they're made of brick. It's also worth noting that, historically, villages simply were not built (without a wealthy count or landholder funding the affair) in any area where materials were not readily available.