Bull Rush and what does it do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bull Rush and what does it do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Coalminer
04-06-05, 03:52 PM When you bull rush do you deal any damage at all?
Can you bull rush as part of an attack? Swinging sword in a manner to knock them back?
Spiked armor come into consideration?

Large creature bull rushing a smaller one. Does the bull rush happen on the edge of the large creature's reach? or only when their 'bases' intersect?
Can 1 large creature bullrush 2 mediums or 2 smalls standing side by side?

Can you Bull rush as an Attack of Opp?

I'm sure to question more.

And since Search is broken I can't find the other mentions on the post lists.
Rock_Slice
04-06-05, 04:34 PM When you bull rush do you deal any damage at all?Not directly. However, bull rushing someone over the edge of a cliff does a lot of damage.
Can you bull rush as part of an attack? Swinging sword in a manner to knock them back?No. A Bull Rush is a separate action which takes the place of a regular attack.
Spiked armor come into consideration?No.

Large creature bull rushing a smaller one. Does the bull rush happen on the edge of the large creature's reach? or only when their 'bases' intersect?
Can 1 large creature bullrush 2 mediums or 2 smalls standing side by side?The bull rush happens at the edge of the large creature's space, not reach. You initiate a bull rush by moving into your target's space. Basically, you try to take over their space.
I'm not sure whether you could bull rush 2 smaller opponents. The rules only discuss one target. With two targets, if it's possible, I'd say that you make seperate rolls against each target, with your final position being determined by the worse result. Your opponents' positions would be determined normally.
But again, I don't know whether it's allowed. That's just what seems logical to me.

Can you Bull rush as an Attack of Opp?I don't think so, as it involves movement.
Coalminer
04-07-05, 12:53 PM Damn now I'm all confused and thinking about it too much. If bullrush can really only be used to move someone a few feet and do no damage and you provoke AOOs everywhere, even from friends (25% miss chance hitting you)

What good is it really? I don't really recall ever having the need, or seeing Bull rush used ever.

Maybe just getting improved Sunder, or combat reflexes is a better idea.
Talmariel
04-07-05, 05:41 PM Rock_Slice pretty well summed it up. As a house rule, I allow a creature that can cover the spaces of more than one smaller creature (such as a Large bull rushing two Mediums or Smalls) to bull rush as many targets as they can cover. The trick I do is allowing the targets to aid another when resisting the check, as they would be working together to prevent the creature's movement.

It has a few select ways of being useful. Pushing targets over various precipices is one particularly handy use, as you get all that lovely falling damage afterwards. You can also knock targets into a wall (or similar barrier) to knock them prone. My favorite use is dismounting a mounted opponent. If you bull rush a mounted combatant while leaving his mount alone, you can knock him clean off. It's harder if they've got a military saddle, but very enjoyable if it succeeds. Basically, it's common enough to want to force someone to move that it's a core combat mechanic, but not often very practical as part of a character's tactical repertoire. The only common use I've seen is with the Combat Brute feat out of Complete Warrior.
primemover003
04-07-05, 06:39 PM Damn now I'm all confused and thinking about it too much. If bullrush can really only be used to move someone a few feet and do no damage and you provoke AOOs everywhere, even from friends (25% miss chance hitting you)

What good is it really? I don't really recall ever having the need, or seeing Bull rush used ever.
First of all you never provoke AoO's from your allies. But yes an AoO against the Bull rushed enemy has a slight chance of hitting you and vice versa.

Bull rush is a tactical manuever. You use it to move enemies into battlefield hazards. If you are always fighting in a big open field with nothing in it, then yes it's almost pointless.

However in most cases it can be used to great effect.
Creature blocking a doorway? Bull rush them out of the way!
Creature near a Pit, Chasm, body of water, lava wall of fire, blade barrier? Bull rush them into it.
Creature standing next to a downed ally who needs Immediate healing. Bull Rush them away from your ally (prevent a Coup de Grace!)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Coalminer 04-06-05, 03:52 PM	When you bull rush do you deal any damage at all? Can you bull rush as part of an attack? Swinging sword in a manner to knock them back? Spiked armor come into consideration? Large creature bull rushing a smaller one. Does the bull rush happen on the edge of the large creature's reach? or only when their 'bases' intersect? Can 1 large creature bullrush 2 mediums or 2 smalls standing side by side? Can you Bull rush as an Attack of Opp? I'm sure to question more. And since Search is broken I can't find the other mentions on the post lists.
Rock_Slice 04-06-05, 04:34 PM	When you bull rush do you deal any damage at all?Not directly. However, bull rushing someone over the edge of a cliff does a lot of damage. Can you bull rush as part of an attack? Swinging sword in a manner to knock them back?No. A Bull Rush is a separate action which takes the place of a regular attack. Spiked armor come into consideration?No. Large creature bull rushing a smaller one. Does the bull rush happen on the edge of the large creature's reach? or only when their 'bases' intersect? Can 1 large creature bullrush 2 mediums or 2 smalls standing side by side?The bull rush happens at the edge of the large creature's space, not reach. You initiate a bull rush by moving into your target's space. Basically, you try to take over their space. I'm not sure whether you could bull rush 2 smaller opponents. The rules only discuss one target. With two targets, if it's possible, I'd say that you make seperate rolls against each target, with your final position being determined by the worse result. Your opponents' positions would be determined normally. But again, I don't know whether it's allowed. That's just what seems logical to me. Can you Bull rush as an Attack of Opp?I don't think so, as it involves movement.
Coalminer 04-07-05, 12:53 PM	Damn now I'm all confused and thinking about it too much. If bullrush can really only be used to move someone a few feet and do no damage and you provoke AOOs everywhere, even from friends (25% miss chance hitting you) What good is it really? I don't really recall ever having the need, or seeing Bull rush used ever. Maybe just getting improved Sunder, or combat reflexes is a better idea.
Talmariel 04-07-05, 05:41 PM	Rock_Slice pretty well summed it up. As a house rule, I allow a creature that can cover the spaces of more than one smaller creature (such as a Large bull rushing two Mediums or Smalls) to bull rush as many targets as they can cover. The trick I do is allowing the targets to aid another when resisting the check, as they would be working together to prevent the creature's movement. It has a few select ways of being useful. Pushing targets over various precipices is one particularly handy use, as you get all that lovely falling damage afterwards. You can also knock targets into a wall (or similar barrier) to knock them prone. My favorite use is dismounting a mounted opponent. If you bull rush a mounted combatant while leaving his mount alone, you can knock him clean off. It's harder if they've got a military saddle, but very enjoyable if it succeeds. Basically, it's common enough to want to force someone to move that it's a core combat mechanic, but not often very practical as part of a character's tactical repertoire. The only common use I've seen is with the Combat Brute feat out of Complete Warrior.
primemover003 04-07-05, 06:39 PM	Damn now I'm all confused and thinking about it too much. If bullrush can really only be used to move someone a few feet and do no damage and you provoke AOOs everywhere, even from friends (25% miss chance hitting you) What good is it really? I don't really recall ever having the need, or seeing Bull rush used ever. First of all you never provoke AoO's from your allies. But yes an AoO against the Bull rushed enemy has a slight chance of hitting you and vice versa. Bull rush is a tactical manuever. You use it to move enemies into battlefield hazards. If you are always fighting in a big open field with nothing in it, then yes it's almost pointless. However in most cases it can be used to great effect. Creature blocking a doorway? Bull rush them out of the way! Creature near a Pit, Chasm, body of water, lava wall of fire, blade barrier? Bull rush them into it. Creature standing next to a downed ally who needs Immediate healing. Bull Rush them away from your ally (prevent a Coup de Grace!)