Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Longarms 04-21-07, 06:22 PM	A fighter is standing adjacent to an opponent. The fighter draws his sword (using a move action). The fighter still has a standard action left. Can the fighter bullrush the adjacent opponent? I think the answer is yes due to the text quoted from the SRD. "You can make a bull rush as a standard action (an attack)" Next question, can the fighter in the above situation move with his opponent assuming he is sucessful with the bullrush? I can't see why not, but I must admit is seems odd that the fighter can move across the battlefield after he has already consumed his move action. "Bull Rush Results If you beat the defender’s Strength check result, you push him back 5 feet. If you wish to move with the defender, you can push him back an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which your check result is greater than the defender’s check result." Next question, if the fighter is 5' away from the target and the fighter consumes his move action drawing, say drawing a reach weapon, can the fighter use his standard action to bullrush from his position 5' away? The answer seems like it should be no, but I can't think of a concrete reason why. After all, the fighter could attack from this position and a bullrush is described as "an attack." Next question is the same as the previous, but the fighter is over 10' away after he consumed his move action and only has a standard action left. Bullrush possible?
Kemev 04-21-07, 06:36 PM	A fighter is standing adjacent to an opponent. The fighter draws his sword (using a move action). The fighter still has a standard action left. Can the fighter bullrush the adjacent opponent? Yes. Next question, can the fighter in the above situation move with his opponent assuming he is sucessful with the bullrush? I can't see why not, but I must admit is seems odd that the fighter can move across the battlefield after he has already consumed his move action. The movement is part of the bull rush action. You can move so long as it doesn't exceed your total movement for the round Next question, if the fighter is 5' away from the target and the fighter consumes his move action drawing, say drawing a reach weapon, can the fighter use his standard action to bullrush from his position 5' away? The answer seems like it should be no, but I can't think of a concrete reason why. After all, the fighter could attack from this position and a bullrush is described as "an attack." Note that you're not usually bull rushing with the weapon (unless it's a ramhammer, which is kind of funky; or with a brutal surge weapon, in which case you just need to hit with a normal attack). You need to be able to make contact with the enemy. In this situation, you could draw a weapon, 5 foot step up to the enemy, and then attempt a bull rush. Next question is the same as the previous, but the fighter is over 10' away after he consumed his move action and only has a standard action left. Bullrush possible? Remember that as long as you have BAB +1, you can combine drawing a weapon with a move. So you could move up to your enemy, drawing your weapon as you go, and then use a standard action to attempt a bull rush. Or you could roll this al ltogether as a charge (charge the enemy, drawing your weapon as you go, and delivering a bull rush attempt at the end of the charge instead of an attack, gaining a +2 bonus on your strength check).
Redneck4Hire 04-21-07, 06:42 PM	First I would say that the fighter would provoke an attack of oppertunity wether he had his weapon out or not since he would have to move into his opponents square (unless he had improved bull rush) so I see no advantages to drawing a weapon first, reach or otherwise. You just push the opponent back 5 or more feet. Second, to your question of your fighter being 10' away, you can move and draw a weapon in the same action if you have a +1 or higher BAB (which a fighter does at 1st level); however, to bullrush from 10+ feet away you can charge, which is a full attack action. As a DM, I wouldn't allow you to draw a weapon as part of a full attack action as your mind while moving is on attacking, not drawing a weapon. Although you could just take the move action to move to within 5' while drawing a weapon and then bullrush, but you won't get the +2 from the charge.
Longarms 04-21-07, 06:42 PM	"Remember that as long as you have BAB +1, you can combine drawing a weapon with a move. So you could move up to your enemy, drawing your weapon as you go, and then use a standard action to attempt a bull rush. Or you could roll this al ltogether as a charge (charge the enemy, drawing your weapon as you go, and delivering a bull rush attempt at the end of the charge instead of an attack, gaining a +2 bonus on your strength check)." Heh, I realize this. Okay, change the facts again. The figher does something else that requires a move action (such as drawing an item). The fighter still has a standard action left, but he is 20' away from his target. Can he bull rush his target? My guess is no, but I have a good explanation for why...
Redneck4Hire 04-21-07, 07:29 PM	Wizards distinguishes retrieving a stored item as different then drawing a weapon. One provokes an attack of oppertunity and the other doesn't. Also, drawing a weapon is one of only two move equivilent action that specifically says you can move while performing it (without a specific feat anyway). The fact that retrieving a stored item provokes an attack of oppertunity implies that you take your mind off what's going on around you and focus on what your doing so I would say that you can't do anything other then draw a weapon or ready a shield and move at the same time while in combat.
Nom 04-22-07, 10:21 PM	You need to be able to make contact with the enemy. In this situation, you could draw a weapon, 5 foot step up to the enemy, and then attempt a bull rush.Since the bull rush manoeuvre requires you to move into the target's square, you can't combine it with a 5 ft. step. In the given example, the chracter could have "drawn a weapon while moving" (single move action as long as he has +1 or better BAB), and then initiated the bull rush.
Longarms 04-22-07, 11:00 PM	"The figher does something else that requires a move action (such as drawing an item). The fighter still has a standard action left, but he is 20' away from his target. Can he bull rush his target? My guess is no, but I have a good explanation for why..." Nom, can you answer my other example?
Nom 04-23-07, 01:56 AM	"The figher does something else that requires a move action (such as drawing an item). The fighter still has a standard action left, but he is 20' away from his target. Can he bull rush his target? My guess is no, but I have a good explanation for why..." Nom, can you answer my other example?From the SRD, my reading is "no". The SRD entry doesn't explicitly say that you must be adjacent, but it leaves no allowance for moving before you enter the space (except while charging). Thus, you'd need to be adjacent when you initiated the bull rush. I'll check the PH tonight in case it adds anything else.
Longarms 04-23-07, 02:30 AM	"From the SRD, my reading is "no". The SRD entry doesn't explicitly say that you must be adjacent, but it leaves no allowance for moving before you enter the space (except while charging). Thus, you'd need to be adjacent when you initiated the bull rush." Cool, thanks. Note another example where you use a move action to do an improved feint while adjacent, then you use your standard action for your bullrush. Sure, you can use a 5' step to move into your opponent square, but can you choose to "move with your opponent" and move another 25-30' that round even though your move action is already used up??? I think so. Since I think that works, I could justify the other example too, if it isn't explicitly against the rules.
Nom 04-23-07, 04:06 AM	Yes, the "move with opponent" is paid for by the Bull Rush standard action, not an additional move action. You still can't Bull Rush with a 5 ft. step, since a Bull Rush is a standard action that includes some movement.