Buying non-magical equipment for epic level character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buying non-magical equipment for epic level character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sutemi
12-25-07, 07:14 AM Just out curiousity I'd like to know what kind of equipment would you buy for a 21-level character if you couldn't buy him/her any magical equipment, no land or property (castle, manor etc.)?

You can assume the character is 21-level human fighter in any fantasy world of your choosing.
deathbane
12-25-07, 09:29 AM Just out curiousity I'd like to know what kind of equipment would you buy for a 21-level character if you couldn't buy him/her any magical equipment, no land or property (castle, manor etc.)?

You can assume the character is 21-level human fighter in any fantasy world of your choosing.

I don't think it is possible to make to 21st level without magical equipment, but to answer your question I need more details.
tenguroEd
12-25-07, 10:16 AM every weapon, in all the books, and full plate armor.
Sutemi
12-25-07, 10:32 AM I don't think it is possible to make to 21st level without magical equipment, but to answer your question I need more details.

Human fighter 21-level, who refains from using anything magical. Campaign setting can be Forgotten Realms and starting in Baldurs Gate, if you don't want to choose any other place. Campaign is just about to start and your DM wants the adventure to be a supprise. You are going solo and need to buy the best possible gear for you PC. Your DM is very lax about what you can buy.

Anything else you need?
deathbane
12-25-07, 11:24 AM Human fighter 21-level, who refains from using anything magical. Campaign setting can be Forgotten Realms and starting in Baldurs Gate, if you don't want to choose any other place. Campaign is just about to start and your DM wants the adventure to be a supprise. You are going solo and need to buy the best possible gear for you PC. Your DM is very lax about what you can buy.

Anything else you need?

Will he be holding back as far as combats go. If you have no details it will be hard to tell you what to buy.

caltrops, alchemical devices, ropes and hooks, and anything else I can fit into a backpack

You should also take leadership so your cohort can help out, and spend the exceeding large amount of leftover gold on their equipment.
If your cohort can't use magic items either then don't bother taking one.

You could take the Vow of _____ feats from exalted deeds if you DM allows those.
strenoth
12-25-07, 11:42 AM a level 21 fighter w/o magical gear or at least Vow of Poverty is dead meat against any reasonable challenge unfortunatly. But if youa re determined to try, I would reccomend, ultra-concentrated epic alchemical vials. look at the Epic alchemy-crafting rules (rules may involve an epic feat), and figure out what it'd cost you to buy suplies from an epic level alchemist.
CryoSilver
12-25-07, 12:29 PM Hire an army of 8000 archers and play with the rule that 3 nat 20s = instant kill. Statistically, everything will die in one round :P
Sutemi
12-25-07, 12:57 PM a level 21 fighter w/o magical gear or at least Vow of Poverty is dead meat against any reasonable challenge unfortunatly. But if youa re determined to try, I would reccomend, ultra-concentrated epic alchemical vials. look at the Epic alchemy-crafting rules (rules may involve an epic feat), and figure out what it'd cost you to buy suplies from an epic level alchemist.

20d6 damage acid sounds brilliant!
runestar
12-26-07, 01:30 AM Play a shaedling from MM5. They can theoretically create any non-magical item, so use it to generate 100000000d6 acid flasks...:P

But to be serious, I cannot think of much outside the standard mithral fullplate, adamantine weapon of choice and maybe a mithral steel shield. Get the casters to supply you with castings of magic vestments, greater magic weapon, barkskin and holy aura and you just might be able to survive lower lv epic gameplay.
Sutemi
12-26-07, 11:05 AM Hmmm, how about mounts? For instance trained Celestial Dire Tiger must be worth something?

Edit: Okay, I have something so far, all taken from Planar Handbook:
Adamantium Sectioned Armor = 3.000 + 15.000

Abyssal Bloodiron Longsword = 12.000

Ur’Epona as mount = 32.000

62.000 in total!
faghter_hero
12-26-07, 10:05 PM Well, if you consider a fortress or small castle "equipment," a 21st lvl character could probably afford one with starting gold. He could also just buy a damn army of 1st level Warriors and send them to do the fighting for him, but that wouldn't be much fun. But, there are vehicles like ships and nonmagical fliers you could buy with epic gold.

For example...

A 45,000 gp Huge ornithopter with a top speed of 950 ft. a turn and service ceiling of about 21,000 ft.

Cargo: 400 lb
Init: -1
Mnvr:+2
Speed: 19 (190 sq. at char scale)
AC: 18
Hardness: 8
HP: 50

Then you buy 400 lbs of lead, forge it into 10 lb cylinders or spheres (or 400 lbs of steel into an enormous chain net), and just drop them on targets from 2,000 ft up.

Or get really crazy. You said any campaign setting? ANY? Like one I just made up? For only 15 million gold, you could probably afford a continent... or you could buy BROKEY McBROKENSTEIN! (Rules for mecha adapted from d20 Future, though this type is a bit weaker.) Some pushy gnome or tiefling might try to sell a derelict one in Sigil at a 10% discount, you never know.

IMPERIAL LEVIATHAN
It is a ten-legged clockwork monstrosity the size of a small fortress. This version has been fitted with three Siege Cannons for maximum ranged artillery capability, twin flamethrowers for incinerating enemy encampments (and everything else), and two Thunderstone Lamps for night raids.

Gargantuan 10-Legged Mecha
AC: +4
HP: +400
Str bonus: +7
Dex: -2
Hardness: 28
Speed: 50’
Special: +4 vs. bull rush and trip
Purchase DC: 60 + 45(armor) +34(60-pounder x3) + 34 + 34 + 21(flamethrower x3) +21 +3(lamp x2) +3 +2(ammo basket)
GP Total: 13,905,776 (market price: 15,000,000)
Equipment Slots: 17
Back (vehicle top): 2 60-pounder Siege Cannons(1), extra ammo (5)
Left arm: Flamethrower
Right arm: Flamethrower
Torso (vehicle underside): Cockpit, 60-pounder Siege Cannon (1), extra ammo (5)
Left legs: Thunderstone Lamp
Right legs: Thunderstone Lamp
Superstructure: Voidmetal + Magic Reinforcement
Misc: Ammunition Basket
Main engine: Phlogiston
Armor: Orichalcum
Equipment Bonus: +8.
Armor Penalty: –8.
Speed Penalty: –10 feet.

Sure each of the cannons takes 5 rounds to load, but who cares when you can just charge and stomp all over anything you failed to blow up or set fire to? The Magical Reinforcement technically makes it magical, just drop 5 points of Hardness to get rid of it. Not a guarantee the character will survive epic level combat, but the 28 points of Hardness is basically Damage Reduction 28/--. Oh, and here's the Thunderstone Lamp entry:

THUNDERSTONE LAMP
This lamp consists of a chunk of thunderstone held in a metal coil, inside a glass tube filled with dephlogistated air and vapor of quicksilver. When the spring-loaded knob on the end is twisted, the thunderstone is slowly crushed by a coil, emitting sparks which ignite the vapor mix, causing the tube to emit an extremely bright blue-white light until the coil pressure is released. The tube rests inside a parabolic mirror, intensifying the strength of the light to resemble the sun’s fierce glare. At night, or in a cave, the thick beam of light can be seen up to a mile away. The lamp will even function underwater, although it must be protected by a Pressure Seal system at depths greater than 50 feet.
A living target struck by this light is blinded for 1d4 rounds, or as long as the beam remains pointed at it. Treat this as a gaze attack.
A Thunderstone Lamp has 1 hp and a Hardness of 1. If the lamp is destroyed, the thunderstone explodes in the lamp's place as though it were hurled against a hard surface (see Player’s Handbook).
Equipment Slots: 1.
Activation: 1 free action.
Range: 1 mile long, 5’ wide line; blinding effect range is 200 ft.
Target: Line of sight.
Duration: Up to 4 hours at a time (before overheating).
Saving Throw: As gaze attack.
sigma999
12-27-07, 06:53 AM You can get anything nonmagical for free. Almost.

Cast Major Creation.

Not a caster? Can't learn it?

Use Major Creation on an item you bought with your level-appropriate cash.

Can't UMD on it? Are you a warrior, then?

If so, how the hell did you get to such a high level???
Dheran
12-28-07, 07:40 PM Buy masterwork tools for every skill there is. They're 50 gp each skill and add a +2 circumstance bonus. This is the equivalent of a lot of skill points, for very little money.

If you can't buy magical equipment, can you rent it for training? A Sparring Dummy of the Master will let anyone with Monk levels train for some weeks. When you finish, you can also make 10' adjustments instead of just the normal 5' adjustments. That's a huge tactical benefit. (You said fighter, as opposed to Fighter class. Monks are fighters.)

Also, what about buying magical services? NPC spellcasters can give you all sorts of benefits. A Cleric can use Miracle to give you an inherent +1 boost to any ability. Unlike Wish, which has funny restrictions about how you can use the spell for a boost higher than +1, Miracle will let these boosts stack if the deity wants them to. The cost ends up being only slightly more than if you were to buy magical Tomes and Manuals for the boosts. You can spend a million gp to raise all your stats +5. Then there are all sorts of other useful things that spells can provide, like Permanency and Greater Magic Fang to make all your unarmed attacks +5.
Gwydeon
12-28-07, 09:38 PM Get your hands of the Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer and Sword & Fist to dig up some more non-magical equipment options.
Xavon
12-29-07, 02:29 AM I seem to recall a thread somewhere on here about using epic level craft skills to construct starships. Sounds like a great, non-magical way to invest your gold.
Tsuul
12-29-07, 03:24 AM Dice, paper, ink, quills.
:D
Draaka
12-29-07, 04:41 PM Hire a cheap rogue to open doors, chests and find traps etc.
unundindur
12-30-07, 10:37 AM Poison (see epic book), and get the feat poison mastery from drow of the underdark. You should now be able to kill anything that doesn't have a high AC, and neither immunity to poison, and invest enough gold in a super-super lethal poison.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sutemi 12-25-07, 07:14 AM	Just out curiousity I'd like to know what kind of equipment would you buy for a 21-level character if you couldn't buy him/her any magical equipment, no land or property (castle, manor etc.)? You can assume the character is 21-level human fighter in any fantasy world of your choosing.
deathbane 12-25-07, 09:29 AM	Just out curiousity I'd like to know what kind of equipment would you buy for a 21-level character if you couldn't buy him/her any magical equipment, no land or property (castle, manor etc.)? You can assume the character is 21-level human fighter in any fantasy world of your choosing. I don't think it is possible to make to 21st level without magical equipment, but to answer your question I need more details.
tenguroEd 12-25-07, 10:16 AM	every weapon, in all the books, and full plate armor.
Sutemi 12-25-07, 10:32 AM	I don't think it is possible to make to 21st level without magical equipment, but to answer your question I need more details. Human fighter 21-level, who refains from using anything magical. Campaign setting can be Forgotten Realms and starting in Baldurs Gate, if you don't want to choose any other place. Campaign is just about to start and your DM wants the adventure to be a supprise. You are going solo and need to buy the best possible gear for you PC. Your DM is very lax about what you can buy. Anything else you need?
deathbane 12-25-07, 11:24 AM	Human fighter 21-level, who refains from using anything magical. Campaign setting can be Forgotten Realms and starting in Baldurs Gate, if you don't want to choose any other place. Campaign is just about to start and your DM wants the adventure to be a supprise. You are going solo and need to buy the best possible gear for you PC. Your DM is very lax about what you can buy. Anything else you need? Will he be holding back as far as combats go. If you have no details it will be hard to tell you what to buy. caltrops, alchemical devices, ropes and hooks, and anything else I can fit into a backpack You should also take leadership so your cohort can help out, and spend the exceeding large amount of leftover gold on their equipment. If your cohort can't use magic items either then don't bother taking one. You could take the Vow of _____ feats from exalted deeds if you DM allows those.
strenoth 12-25-07, 11:42 AM	a level 21 fighter w/o magical gear or at least Vow of Poverty is dead meat against any reasonable challenge unfortunatly. But if youa re determined to try, I would reccomend, ultra-concentrated epic alchemical vials. look at the Epic alchemy-crafting rules (rules may involve an epic feat), and figure out what it'd cost you to buy suplies from an epic level alchemist.
CryoSilver 12-25-07, 12:29 PM	Hire an army of 8000 archers and play with the rule that 3 nat 20s = instant kill. Statistically, everything will die in one round :P
Sutemi 12-25-07, 12:57 PM	a level 21 fighter w/o magical gear or at least Vow of Poverty is dead meat against any reasonable challenge unfortunatly. But if youa re determined to try, I would reccomend, ultra-concentrated epic alchemical vials. look at the Epic alchemy-crafting rules (rules may involve an epic feat), and figure out what it'd cost you to buy suplies from an epic level alchemist. 20d6 damage acid sounds brilliant!
runestar 12-26-07, 01:30 AM	Play a shaedling from MM5. They can theoretically create any non-magical item, so use it to generate 100000000d6 acid flasks...:P But to be serious, I cannot think of much outside the standard mithral fullplate, adamantine weapon of choice and maybe a mithral steel shield. Get the casters to supply you with castings of magic vestments, greater magic weapon, barkskin and holy aura and you just might be able to survive lower lv epic gameplay.
Sutemi 12-26-07, 11:05 AM	Hmmm, how about mounts? For instance trained Celestial Dire Tiger must be worth something? Edit: Okay, I have something so far, all taken from Planar Handbook: Adamantium Sectioned Armor = 3.000 + 15.000 Abyssal Bloodiron Longsword = 12.000 Ur’Epona as mount = 32.000 62.000 in total!
faghter_hero 12-26-07, 10:05 PM	Well, if you consider a fortress or small castle "equipment," a 21st lvl character could probably afford one with starting gold. He could also just buy a damn army of 1st level Warriors and send them to do the fighting for him, but that wouldn't be much fun. But, there are vehicles like ships and nonmagical fliers you could buy with epic gold. For example... A 45,000 gp Huge ornithopter with a top speed of 950 ft. a turn and service ceiling of about 21,000 ft. Cargo: 400 lb Init: -1 Mnvr:+2 Speed: 19 (190 sq. at char scale) AC: 18 Hardness: 8 HP: 50 Then you buy 400 lbs of lead, forge it into 10 lb cylinders or spheres (or 400 lbs of steel into an enormous chain net), and just drop them on targets from 2,000 ft up. Or get really crazy. You said any campaign setting? ANY? Like one I just made up? For only 15 million gold, you could probably afford a continent... or you could buy BROKEY McBROKENSTEIN! (Rules for mecha adapted from d20 Future, though this type is a bit weaker.) Some pushy gnome or tiefling might try to sell a derelict one in Sigil at a 10% discount, you never know. IMPERIAL LEVIATHAN It is a ten-legged clockwork monstrosity the size of a small fortress. This version has been fitted with three Siege Cannons for maximum ranged artillery capability, twin flamethrowers for incinerating enemy encampments (and everything else), and two Thunderstone Lamps for night raids. Gargantuan 10-Legged Mecha AC: +4 HP: +400 Str bonus: +7 Dex: -2 Hardness: 28 Speed: 50’ Special: +4 vs. bull rush and trip Purchase DC: 60 + 45(armor) +34(60-pounder x3) + 34 + 34 + 21(flamethrower x3) +21 +3(lamp x2) +3 +2(ammo basket) GP Total: 13,905,776 (market price: 15,000,000) Equipment Slots: 17 Back (vehicle top): 2 60-pounder Siege Cannons(1), extra ammo (5) Left arm: Flamethrower Right arm: Flamethrower Torso (vehicle underside): Cockpit, 60-pounder Siege Cannon (1), extra ammo (5) Left legs: Thunderstone Lamp Right legs: Thunderstone Lamp Superstructure: Voidmetal + Magic Reinforcement Misc: Ammunition Basket Main engine: Phlogiston Armor: Orichalcum Equipment Bonus: +8. Armor Penalty: –8. Speed Penalty: –10 feet. Sure each of the cannons takes 5 rounds to load, but who cares when you can just charge and stomp all over anything you failed to blow up or set fire to? The Magical Reinforcement technically makes it magical, just drop 5 points of Hardness to get rid of it. Not a guarantee the character will survive epic level combat, but the 28 points of Hardness is basically Damage Reduction 28/--. Oh, and here's the Thunderstone Lamp entry: THUNDERSTONE LAMP This lamp consists of a chunk of thunderstone held in a metal coil, inside a glass tube filled with dephlogistated air and vapor of quicksilver. When the spring-loaded knob on the end is twisted, the thunderstone is slowly crushed by a coil, emitting sparks which ignite the vapor mix, causing the tube to emit an extremely bright blue-white light until the coil pressure is released. The tube rests inside a parabolic mirror, intensifying the strength of the light to resemble the sun’s fierce glare. At night, or in a cave, the thick beam of light can be seen up to a mile away. The lamp will even function underwater, although it must be protected by a Pressure Seal system at depths greater than 50 feet. A living target struck by this light is blinded for 1d4 rounds, or as long as the beam remains pointed at it. Treat this as a gaze attack. A Thunderstone Lamp has 1 hp and a Hardness of 1. If the lamp is destroyed, the thunderstone explodes in the lamp's place as though it were hurled against a hard surface (see Player’s Handbook). Equipment Slots: 1. Activation: 1 free action. Range: 1 mile long, 5’ wide line; blinding effect range is 200 ft. Target: Line of sight. Duration: Up to 4 hours at a time (before overheating). Saving Throw: As gaze attack.
sigma999 12-27-07, 06:53 AM	You can get anything nonmagical for free. Almost. Cast Major Creation. Not a caster? Can't learn it? Use Major Creation on an item you bought with your level-appropriate cash. Can't UMD on it? Are you a warrior, then? If so, how the hell did you get to such a high level???
Dheran 12-28-07, 07:40 PM	Buy masterwork tools for every skill there is. They're 50 gp each skill and add a +2 circumstance bonus. This is the equivalent of a lot of skill points, for very little money. If you can't buy magical equipment, can you rent it for training? A Sparring Dummy of the Master will let anyone with Monk levels train for some weeks. When you finish, you can also make 10' adjustments instead of just the normal 5' adjustments. That's a huge tactical benefit. (You said fighter, as opposed to Fighter class. Monks are fighters.) Also, what about buying magical services? NPC spellcasters can give you all sorts of benefits. A Cleric can use Miracle to give you an inherent +1 boost to any ability. Unlike Wish, which has funny restrictions about how you can use the spell for a boost higher than +1, Miracle will let these boosts stack if the deity wants them to. The cost ends up being only slightly more than if you were to buy magical Tomes and Manuals for the boosts. You can spend a million gp to raise all your stats +5. Then there are all sorts of other useful things that spells can provide, like Permanency and Greater Magic Fang to make all your unarmed attacks +5.
Gwydeon 12-28-07, 09:38 PM	Get your hands of the Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer and Sword & Fist to dig up some more non-magical equipment options.
Xavon 12-29-07, 02:29 AM	I seem to recall a thread somewhere on here about using epic level craft skills to construct starships. Sounds like a great, non-magical way to invest your gold.
Tsuul 12-29-07, 03:24 AM	Dice, paper, ink, quills. :D
Draaka 12-29-07, 04:41 PM	Hire a cheap rogue to open doors, chests and find traps etc.
unundindur 12-30-07, 10:37 AM	Poison (see epic book), and get the feat poison mastery from drow of the underdark. You should now be able to kill anything that doesn't have a high AC, and neither immunity to poison, and invest enough gold in a super-super lethal poison.