Bypassing DR at levels 17-epic...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bypassing DR at levels 17-epic...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
evangelion1010
12-11-04, 06:04 PM I've made a fairly solid thrower build but i can't come up with any reasonable way to consistantly bypass DR. The problem is that when i'm throwing 16 daggers, theres really no way i can effectivly meet the requirements to bypass DR...

Demons/devils - At higher levels its DR good and (silver or cold iron). Provided i only face one, i still can't think of a way to deal much damage, as i can't afford a whole slew of +1 holy cold iron daggers...and if we face both, i might as well just stop trying...

I've given up on constructs. Perhaps 2 construct bane adamantine daggers so i can deal 2d3+4d6 damage.

The problem only gets worse at epic, if she tries to throw any epic monsters at us from the Epic handbook... dr xx/+6 (or +7...), i suppose i'll sit back and use an adamantine dagger to carve odd things into the dungeon walls. Either that or use UMD to become a cleric.

So does anyone know of any feats/wonderous items that treat all weapons wielded as good aligned or as a +6 for the purpose of bypassing DR only, Also, any way to bypass the crit immunity (and therefore sneak attack) of undead or constructs...
Kayli
12-11-04, 06:26 PM there are. the feat Glorious Weapon adds alignment to allies weapons so talk to your resident healer. also the spell Subvert Planer Essence reduces Damage reduction by 10 for outsiders. there are other feats and enhancements that penetrate DR or add alingment to weapons but I can't think of them specifically right now.
Melpomene
12-11-04, 06:55 PM If you use weapons that are enchanted as ammo, you stand some chance.
Iron Chef Vastrox
12-12-04, 01:14 AM This is the perpetual thrower problem: at higher levels, you can't enchant conventional thrown weapons (daggers, throwing axes) in sufficient volume to exhaust your number of attacks. As far as I know, there's no real WotC material that will fix this.
evangelion1010
12-12-04, 01:21 AM Unfortunatly, daggers "ARE NOT AMMO" so any enchanments etc that i want on them will be at the regular cost. Personally, i'm using these weapons as nearly indescructable ammunition (as in it doesn't get destroyed when it hits/misses), so although they shouldn't be treated as ammunition, it'd be nice to find some middle ground - like 3/4 price or something.

I'd be happy with some stone/wonderous item that allowed weapons wielded by the caster to be good aligned for DR purposes... I could always buy a ton of silver/cold iron daggers. (which are 30 gp and 4 gp a piece i believe), and while i wouldn't deal a lot of damage, i'd still be contributing.
DM Zoc
12-12-04, 02:43 AM There's a feat in the Draconomicon which bypasses the first 5 points of any DR. I wish I could check it, though, as it might only be melee attacks.
PhaedrusXY
12-12-04, 03:10 AM You should look into either using some "ammunition" type weapon instead, like shuriken, or seeing if your DM will let you make up a new weapon based on this. Call them "throwing daggers" instead of daggers, make them ranged only, and count them as ammunition.

Other... stranger... options.
1) Invest in a bandolier that acts like a Scabbard of Keen Edges, but casts other spells instead of Keen Edge. Give it unlimited uses per day, instead of only 3. And make it cast Quickened spells (or make it use-activated, depending on how your DM interprets that). Spells to put in it: Bladebane from the Unapproachable East, Align Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon. It would be quite expensive, but probably cheaper than having a bazillion weapons to beat all the possible DR types.

2) Get a bunch of weapons with the Metalline enhancement (+1, can change into any metal). Or have a wizard (or other caster) buddy research a spell that adds this property to a weapon temporarily.

3) Some combo of the above. ;)
Kessalin Talira
12-12-04, 12:02 PM The 3.5 version of Sure Striking will help you a lot, too. It's still a +1 enhancement, I believe, but it strikes as though it's lawful, chaotic, good, or evil, whichever is needed at the time.

Found it... it's exactly as I described, and is found on page 120 of the Player's Guide to Faerun.

Also in that same book is a partial solution to your other problem: Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane. They treat "any weapon that the wearer grasps while wearing the gauntlets" as a magic silver weapon. Because it doesn't specify melee weapons only, you might be able to get away with them working on thrown daggers. 9000 gp for the base version.

You're still paying a lot for your weapons; +1 Sure Striking Cold Iron daggers aren't exactly cheap. Assuming you can get the gauntlets too, though, they're effectively +1 lawful, chaotic, good, evil, cold iron, silver daggers.

As a last resort talk to your DM about letting you create an item like the Quiver of Anariel:

Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.

I'll let you and your DM figure something out, but aiming for +4 sure striking cold iron daggers would run about the same as the +5 price, +4005 gp for cold iron. Then find some way to put the Bladebane spell on it (from Unapproachable East, I think), maybe a full round action to activate, and 10th caster level, so you get ten rounds out of it... three times a day, maybe... Get the gauntlets I mentioned before, and you'll get through any DR you need to, as long as you can figure out the creature type of whatever you're fighting: Sure Striking gets through alignment DR, cold iron and silver come from the item and the gauntlets, and Epic DR (which is what everything with x/+6 or higher has now) is penentrated by the bladebane spell, making the daggers +6 weapons against whatever type you specify on activation.

Extremely expensive, but you don't have to buy daggers anymore... ever.
evangelion1010
12-12-04, 02:37 PM Thanks for all the help. I already have a pair of gloves (listed above the ones you mentioned, which adds just the returning property to the item (as i don't need the throwing one)) Adding the sure striking property will help a good deal too.

Deffinatly taking sense weakness, as i will have the pre-req feats automatically. bypassing DR 5/- is not a bad deal, especially vs anything i can't bypass.

Also I may take ranged disarm with a disarming weapon, essentially allowing me to make opposed attack rolls at no penatly to disarm... depending on the creature, it could be fairly useful, if i can't meaningfully bypass the DR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
evangelion1010 12-11-04, 06:04 PM	I've made a fairly solid thrower build but i can't come up with any reasonable way to consistantly bypass DR. The problem is that when i'm throwing 16 daggers, theres really no way i can effectivly meet the requirements to bypass DR... Demons/devils - At higher levels its DR good and (silver or cold iron). Provided i only face one, i still can't think of a way to deal much damage, as i can't afford a whole slew of +1 holy cold iron daggers...and if we face both, i might as well just stop trying... I've given up on constructs. Perhaps 2 construct bane adamantine daggers so i can deal 2d3+4d6 damage. The problem only gets worse at epic, if she tries to throw any epic monsters at us from the Epic handbook... dr xx/+6 (or +7...), i suppose i'll sit back and use an adamantine dagger to carve odd things into the dungeon walls. Either that or use UMD to become a cleric. So does anyone know of any feats/wonderous items that treat all weapons wielded as good aligned or as a +6 for the purpose of bypassing DR only, Also, any way to bypass the crit immunity (and therefore sneak attack) of undead or constructs...
Kayli 12-11-04, 06:26 PM	there are. the feat Glorious Weapon adds alignment to allies weapons so talk to your resident healer. also the spell Subvert Planer Essence reduces Damage reduction by 10 for outsiders. there are other feats and enhancements that penetrate DR or add alingment to weapons but I can't think of them specifically right now.
Melpomene 12-11-04, 06:55 PM	If you use weapons that are enchanted as ammo, you stand some chance.
Iron Chef Vastrox 12-12-04, 01:14 AM	This is the perpetual thrower problem: at higher levels, you can't enchant conventional thrown weapons (daggers, throwing axes) in sufficient volume to exhaust your number of attacks. As far as I know, there's no real WotC material that will fix this.
evangelion1010 12-12-04, 01:21 AM	Unfortunatly, daggers "ARE NOT AMMO" so any enchanments etc that i want on them will be at the regular cost. Personally, i'm using these weapons as nearly indescructable ammunition (as in it doesn't get destroyed when it hits/misses), so although they shouldn't be treated as ammunition, it'd be nice to find some middle ground - like 3/4 price or something. I'd be happy with some stone/wonderous item that allowed weapons wielded by the caster to be good aligned for DR purposes... I could always buy a ton of silver/cold iron daggers. (which are 30 gp and 4 gp a piece i believe), and while i wouldn't deal a lot of damage, i'd still be contributing.
DM Zoc 12-12-04, 02:43 AM	There's a feat in the Draconomicon which bypasses the first 5 points of any DR. I wish I could check it, though, as it might only be melee attacks.
PhaedrusXY 12-12-04, 03:10 AM	You should look into either using some "ammunition" type weapon instead, like shuriken, or seeing if your DM will let you make up a new weapon based on this. Call them "throwing daggers" instead of daggers, make them ranged only, and count them as ammunition. Other... stranger... options. 1) Invest in a bandolier that acts like a Scabbard of Keen Edges, but casts other spells instead of Keen Edge. Give it unlimited uses per day, instead of only 3. And make it cast Quickened spells (or make it use-activated, depending on how your DM interprets that). Spells to put in it: Bladebane from the Unapproachable East, Align Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon. It would be quite expensive, but probably cheaper than having a bazillion weapons to beat all the possible DR types. 2) Get a bunch of weapons with the Metalline enhancement (+1, can change into any metal). Or have a wizard (or other caster) buddy research a spell that adds this property to a weapon temporarily. 3) Some combo of the above. ;)
Kessalin Talira 12-12-04, 12:02 PM	The 3.5 version of Sure Striking will help you a lot, too. It's still a +1 enhancement, I believe, but it strikes as though it's lawful, chaotic, good, or evil, whichever is needed at the time. Found it... it's exactly as I described, and is found on page 120 of the Player's Guide to Faerun. Also in that same book is a partial solution to your other problem: Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane. They treat "any weapon that the wearer grasps while wearing the gauntlets" as a magic silver weapon. Because it doesn't specify melee weapons only, you might be able to get away with them working on thrown daggers. 9000 gp for the base version. You're still paying a lot for your weapons; +1 Sure Striking Cold Iron daggers aren't exactly cheap. Assuming you can get the gauntlets too, though, they're effectively +1 lawful, chaotic, good, evil, cold iron, silver daggers. As a last resort talk to your DM about letting you create an item like the Quiver of Anariel: Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb. I'll let you and your DM figure something out, but aiming for +4 sure striking cold iron daggers would run about the same as the +5 price, +4005 gp for cold iron. Then find some way to put the Bladebane spell on it (from Unapproachable East, I think), maybe a full round action to activate, and 10th caster level, so you get ten rounds out of it... three times a day, maybe... Get the gauntlets I mentioned before, and you'll get through any DR you need to, as long as you can figure out the creature type of whatever you're fighting: Sure Striking gets through alignment DR, cold iron and silver come from the item and the gauntlets, and Epic DR (which is what everything with x/+6 or higher has now) is penentrated by the bladebane spell, making the daggers +6 weapons against whatever type you specify on activation. Extremely expensive, but you don't have to buy daggers anymore... ever.
evangelion1010 12-12-04, 02:37 PM	Thanks for all the help. I already have a pair of gloves (listed above the ones you mentioned, which adds just the returning property to the item (as i don't need the throwing one)) Adding the sure striking property will help a good deal too. Deffinatly taking sense weakness, as i will have the pre-req feats automatically. bypassing DR 5/- is not a bad deal, especially vs anything i can't bypass. Also I may take ranged disarm with a disarming weapon, essentially allowing me to make opposed attack rolls at no penatly to disarm... depending on the creature, it could be fairly useful, if i can't meaningfully bypass the DR.