Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Iver Gearsham 12-27-06, 04:16 AM	Make a big box with secret doors on all sides and Shrink Item it down. Why should I? Total cover from spell effects and Breaking Line of Effect. Not many like being in a Dimentional Lock or Forbidance area effect so Drop your box step in and Teleport, Rope Trick or D Door a way.
tarkin 12-27-06, 10:16 AM	You realize it only grants total cover if the box survives the effect? Unless you make it of Adamantine, it will be destroyed by most damaging spells, in which case that same damaging spell will also affect you (if the spell breaks the cover, it affects things that were given cover immediately). And that it will take a Full Round to get into that box (Shrink Item does not say the free action 'drop' will unshrink it, instead it says the Attack action 'toss' or the standard action 'command word' will unshrink it. Then you need a Move action at the minimum to enter the secret door.) Also, I would rule that being in a Box does not make the box attended, anymore than you being a in a room makes the room count as attended. To make it attended, I would require that you must be carrying it in some way. So it is an unattended magic item, with low saves.
PhaedrusXY 12-27-06, 10:21 AM	Who cares if it is destroyed? It's a box. He's just using it to escape area affect spells that normally hinder dimensional travel, anyway. It would also block Antimagic Field, which is not listed. It doesn't even have to be magical, other than the Shrink Item spell on it. It could be completely mundane, and still be extremely useful.
tarkin 12-27-06, 10:37 AM	You misunderstand. OK, let's do this right. You have prepared this collosal waste of time, at a ridiculous price. 1) On your turn you happen to have it ready to go in your hand (wow lucky you. Normally you keep a WEAPON in your hand, not this thing). As such, you don't need to take a Move Action to retrieve the item. 2) So as a Standard Action you either toss it to the ground or command it to unshrink. 3) As your Move Action you enter it. 4) Your turn ends. Bad guys go. 5) Bad guy casts fireball. 6) Your box, is of course destroyed. 7) You make a save, having NO bonus because as the box is destroyed, it does not even grant you partial cover. You take 1/2 damage. 8) Bad guy uses his Move Action to laugh at you. 9) P.S. As your box is destroyed, you are not affected by the Dimensional Lock. and can not escape next round. 10) P.P.S. The bad guy could also just break the door down with an phsyical attack. ========= The problem is he made a bunch of wrong assumptions He thought he could: A) Get the device out B) Activate it C) Open the door D) move into it E) Close the door All using just free actions and a single Move Action, leaving him a Standard Action to cast his spell and get away. That assumption is not reasonable. A DM might go along with it, but I would not bet on it. I certainly would not. I see Assumption B being the main problem, but honestly C & D could also require a Move Action each, and both A and E would probably require using additional magic/money (for a spring to close the door automatically). To get the plan down to Free Action + Move Action, would require a lot more Magic than just a "Shrink Item Spell". In fact, I would probably require him to create a custom spell whose sole purpose is to block Line of Effect. Also note, Line of Effect is not always neccesary for all spells. They sometimes only apply when the spell is cast, and then only to the center of the effect.
Lokiyn 12-27-06, 02:09 PM	relax, you are missing the point. This is not an in combat trick. This is, i'm locked in a jail cell trick and all i have left is my trusty hanky.
Iver Gearsham 12-28-06, 03:10 AM	You misunderstand. OK, let's do this right. You have prepared this collosal waste of time, at a ridiculous price. Made it myself for 1/3 cost get your hands dirty once and while its good for you! 1) On your turn you happen to have it ready to go in your hand (wow lucky you. Normally you keep a WEAPON in your hand, not this thing). As such, you don't need to take a Move Action to retrieve the item. Foe #1 Look out the mage has a Dagger! Foe #2 Fool! we have Spike Chains and Longswords Kill him! Or I could make them unable to charge and need to move around the box too get One attack or they can wast time killing a box instead of ME!:D 2) So as a Standard Action you either toss it to the ground or command it to unshrink. Only if I was a fool for not handing that responsability to my familiar. 3) As your Move Action you enter it. Mobile Spell casting I shoot my spell off Killing and maming and Unseen Servant #1 opens door, I Move in, Unseen Servant #2 closes door. 4) Your turn ends. Bad guys go. 5) Bad guy casts fireball. Box is made of Iron and becomes warm to touch and loses 5 hp or its made of two or more inches thick of wood and it is badly chared but as it's HP are not Zero it still functions. 6) Your box, is of course destroyed. In your dreams;) 7) You make a save, having NO bonus because as the box is destroyed, it does not even grant you partial cover. You take 1/2 damage. Hardly ;) 8) Bad guy uses his Move Action to laugh at you. And dies as I Move out cast and move back into the box or into Another box!:P 9) P.S. As your box is destroyed, you are not affected by the Dimensional Lock. and can not escape next round. Not destroyed don't care. 10) P.P.S. The bad guy could also just break the door down with an phsyical attack. Ya good Idea spend your attacks chopping a box and stand there after it's opened while I cast Mobile cast Defensivly blasting you and stepping into another box! ========= The problem is he made a bunch of wrong assumptions Or you didn't think on how it could be used reasonably. He thought he could: A) Get the device out OK boys let's walk into a dungeon everybody drop your drawers and be completely unprepared or it's In my familiars hands ready to go.[/B ]B) Activate it [B]Done by familiar C) Open the door Hello Unseen Servant #1 D) move into it Mobile Spell Casting feat is good to retaliate E) Close the door Unseen Servant #2 Thank you! All using just free actions and a single Move Action, leaving him a Standard Action to cast his spell and get away. That assumption is not reasonable. A DM might go along with it, but I would not bet on it. I certainly would not. I see Assumption B being the main problem, but honestly C & D could also require a Move Action each, and both A and E would probably require using additional magic/money (for a spring to close the door automatically). To get the plan down to Free Action + Move Action, would require a lot more Magic than just a "Shrink Item Spell". Yep and can do it too In fact, I would probably require him to create a custom spell whose sole purpose is to block Line of Effect. :confused: What ever! Also note, Line of Effect is not always neccesary for all spells. They sometimes only apply when the spell is cast, and then only to the center of the effect. A tad hostile? 1 Not a fighter sucky base attack low STR and I don't like Staffs that much, a weapon In my hand normally is a wast. 2If I used it in combat my Improved Familiar would drop the box after Shrink Item Through using Imbue Familiar with Spell like Ability days before the fight. As part of a Held action (when foe mage casts toss Box) it would be tossed out and be a special box with thin walls no doors and 20 ft. on a side thus intercepting the Fireball making it Detonate short of its target by 20 ft. A cheap Counter spell for many attacks. Ya let's do this Right and all :rolleyes: as others point out I didn't say it was for combat. My other point is which is more important your money or your life? Make it yourself 1/3 price mages get craft and can default with INT and 2nd lvl Unseen Crafters are wonderful or Fabricate and Bam! its done. From SRD Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. Wood box two inch thick walls would survive with 15 hps left after an average 10d6 Fireball. A 10d6 Fireball average damage is 30 by the time anyone is shooting 10th lvl Fireballs at me I can make the box from Iron have it one inch thick (Hardness 10 30 hp per inch) and you would only reduce the box by 5 hps per Fireball you cast
Iver Gearsham 12-29-06, 05:14 AM	Well now that I proved the box can survive and is useful what do you think of it?
Forged_Fury 12-29-06, 08:26 AM	Why not just bring this up in the thread you started about a year ago with roughly the same concept, although that one with combat implications? -Forged_Fury
Morgotho 12-29-06, 10:43 AM	I think its a neat trick once or twice, but don't rely on it too often or the enemy mages might catch on and place a wall at your entrance as soon as your Houdini box is dropped and brought back up to size. If your DM has a sense of humor, he could instead try 'Enlarge Person' on you so that you couldn't fit into the box. Of course, there is also always the Disintegrate method of box disposal.... Still, that is a nice plan for some situations. I could just imagine the DM's face when you pull that one out.
hiryuu 12-29-06, 03:01 PM	I think its a neat trick once or twice, but don't rely on it too often or the enemy mages might catch on and place a wall at your entrance as soon as your Houdini box is dropped and brought back up to size. If your DM has a sense of humor, he could instead try 'Enlarge Person' on you so that you couldn't fit into the box. Of course, there is also always the Disintegrate method of box disposal.... Still, that is a nice plan for some situations. I could just imagine the DM's face when you pull that one out. Yeah, if it were me, I'd either pull out the disintegrate (or any of the myriad thousand acid spells out there) or just use telekinesis on the box. Of course, my question is how you're supposed to affect people outside the box. Another good one is arcane lock on the outsides of the box. Can't dimension door, don't have line of effect. I wonder why you couldn't cast teleport to begin with. Of course, with forbiddance in effect, this wouldn't work. With dimensional lock it might, but this goes against the spirit of the effect (one could easily rule that even "empty" spots inside the AoE are still subject to the AoE of those spells it's even implied, what with no going back and forth). There's not enough room in the box to cast rope trick, and even if there was, it'd be useless to do, as everyone now has 1 hour/per your level to call in some more backup. If you're using a "hold action/throw wall" counterspell tactic with your familiar, every mage is doing it and knows what to watch out for. Expect your familiar to die the instant you start combat of any sort.
High Octane 12-29-06, 03:16 PM	In a pinch its also a time machine. Turn it upside down its a tronsmogrifier. On its side, a duplicator.
Morgotho 12-29-06, 04:35 PM	If you're using a "hold action/throw wall" counterspell tactic with your familiar, every mage is doing it and knows what to watch out for. Expect your familiar to die the instant you start combat of any sort. Merely an example, I wouldn't want to rely on the same old trick for countering it either. If you do the same thing too often, people start to plan for it. As for the attacks on familiars, that cuts both ways. I'm sure that the PC that tries using an item like this with Iver's tactics would not enjoy waiting a year to get a new familiar too. As for NPCs, well, they're made for killing. Loved the arcane lock idea, pretty simple solution that could slow down an attempted get away. You'd have to use the ranged metamagic to make that one work though (or use hold portal instead).
Iver Gearsham 12-29-06, 06:41 PM	1 I think its a neat trick once or twice, but don't rely on it too often or the enemy mages might catch on and place a wall at your entrance as soon as your Houdini box is dropped and brought back up to size. 3 If your DM has a sense of humor, he could instead try 'Enlarge Person' on you so that you couldn't fit into the box. 4 Of course, there is also always the Disintegrate method of box disposal.... Still, that is a nice plan for some situations. I could just imagine the DM's face when you pull that one out. 1 It definitely is not an Every encounter trick Just something to have ready if there is opportunity. 2With a door on each side and top/bottom it is difficult to wall it all off completely and I could D Door away if it was. 3 A first level spell is easy to resist not too worried about that but funny none the less. 4 Any time a foe chooses too or has to spend a sixth level spell to counter a third level spell it is good for me. 1 Yeah, if it were me, I'd either pull out the disintegrate (or any of the myriad thousand acid spells out there) 2 or just use telekinesis on the box. 3 Of course, my question is how you're supposed to affect people outside the box. 4 Another good one is arcane lock on the outsides of the box. 5 Can't dimension door, don't have line of effect. 6 I wonder why you couldn't cast teleport to begin with. Of course, with forbiddance in effect, this wouldn't work. With dimensional lock it might, but this goes against the spirit of the effect (one could easily rule that even "empty" spots inside the AoE are still subject to the AoE of those spells it's even implied, what with no going back and forth). 7 There's not enough room in the box to cast rope trick, 8 and even if there was, it'd be useless to do, as everyone now has 1 hour/per your level to call in some more backup. 9 If you're using a "hold action/throw wall" counterspell tactic with your familiar, every mage is doing it and knows what to watch out for. 10 Expect your familiar to die the instant you start combat of any sort.1 Fry the box I can have Energy Protections up more time they wast casting at it or me more time for my friends too do their actions 2 TK is limited on weight 375 lbs. not worried. 3 Mobile Spell Casting Feat Unseen servants opening and closing the doors. 4 As a touch spell that brings them in close and they would have to cast it 5 times 5 rounds costing them 125 gold to do it! 5I can D Door as long as the destination is not D Locked. 6Could but I like to see how soon I can do things and keep higher spells available. 7Rope Trick needs a minimum of 5 ft. that's possible in a box big enough for a medium sized person. 8From the Rope Trick other travel spells can be cast leaving them focused on the Rope Trick as you go where ever. 9 Haven't seen anyone but me as yet doing it and what are they going to do too Counter my counter? 10Like that is not a risk any way? I have a Air elemental with Invisibility and None Detection who can use Hide skill making it difficult too target her. DM punishment aside. Why not just bring this up in the thread you started about a year ago with roughly the same concept, although that one with combat implications? -Forged_FuryWOW it is a honer someone remembers! Well it was mostly a whim to repost it in apart and grew from there. The old thread had a lot of snark baggage. It had some nice features though.
Morgotho 12-29-06, 08:40 PM	Iver, I was just trying to point out that this trick isn't completely fool proof and that if the DM wants to, there are always ways to disturb your plan. As an example, Shrink Item makes no guarentees that it'll land right side up (and I can just imagine it landing in such a way that the doors open down). If this box were being abused, I'd even consider a few rolls to decide if some doors pop open upon landing. As for the Disintegrate spell, I'd be more concerned that the enemy spellcaster with enough spells to waste is still after me when I'm trying to escape. Forcing him to use a 6th level spell to beat your 3rd level spell doesn't mean much if he still catches you. How heavy were you planning on the doors being anyway? If they are too light (under 30 pounds), an Open spell would be pretty effective against it, and that's a 0th level spell. If they're too heavy (require more than 20 pounds of force to open), then your unseen servant is going to have a bit of trouble opening the door for you. I fully realize that you aren't planning on using this all that often, and if I were you, I'd be very cautious about when I did use it. Somebody can usually get away with a trick like this once or twice. Probably a good idea to make those uses count.
Fallenangel359 12-29-06, 09:05 PM	riverine is practically indestructable, and totally stops most spells...
hiryuu 12-30-06, 10:57 AM	It's simple. You're artificially creating a magical arms race. Your familiar is invisible and has nondetection? Fine. After about two combats, expect an enemy to be invisible, have nondetection, and be directly above you. Expect dimensional anchor rays followed by a wall of force with a cloudkill dropped inside of it from an enemy you couldn't even see. Expect transdimensional spells that obliterate your unseen servants, and then followed up with glitterdust dropped from overhead, or opponents with blindsight who see a guy they can't get to locked in a box and a tasty bundle of XP floating nearby. Besides, disintegrate destroys your box. No questions asked, no quarter given, elemental resistance equals no. Or even better, hold action, you step out of box, the disintegrate hits you. One round of the spellcaster doing nothing? Heck no, his familiar is invisible, too, it's above the battlefield, and it's carrying wands. Remember that no tactic is perfect and that locking yourself in a box in any fight, especially in D&D, is a bad idea.
Lakaniss 12-30-06, 12:17 PM	Actually its a pretty good idea, you have to see it has a small forteress and not a box to be locked in. It protects from ranged attacks and help you against spell, yes it wont totally stop casters, but i doubt they will destroy the box for no reason at first. It might take 3 round before a mage get bored and try to desintegrate it. Whit a door on each side you can pop out anywhere each turn. And for killing the familiar, again no one will kill a familiar on begin when they can kill a real threat, then your familiar can use the box has well cant it?
hiryuu 12-30-06, 01:36 PM	Actually its a pretty good idea, you have to see it has a small forteress and not a box to be locked in. It protects from ranged attacks and help you against spell, yes it wont totally stop casters, but i doubt they will destroy the box for no reason at first. It might take 3 round before a mage get bored and try to desintegrate it. Whit a door on each side you can pop out anywhere each turn. And for killing the familiar, again no one will kill a familiar on begin when they can kill a real threat, then your familiar can use the box has well cant it? No, they won't destroy it for no reason. But a guy's just locked imself in a box. If I started a fight and the guy jumped into a box, I'd do everything in my power to obliterate it and him immediately, because who knows what his plan is? I know what a warrior with a sword is planning, but I don't know what a guy I can't see and obviously has a lot of unseen servants and an invisible familiar is planning. That's the kind of thing that gets targeted first. If the familiar has a method to disrupt line of sight and perform battlefield control effects, it IS a threat, and a serious one.
Frodo34x 12-30-06, 03:00 PM	A 10d6 Fireball average damage is 30 3.5 x 10 = 35, not 30. As any wargamer can tell you, the average roll on a d6 is 3.5, not 3.
Lakaniss 12-30-06, 03:03 PM	Actually, i see no problem for the familiar to enter that box to, so therefore, cannot be target to... and in much case, monsters dont all have desintegrates spell, and can loose quite a few rouns before trying to escape because its bored of trying to hit a box and getting hit by spells.
High Octane 12-30-06, 03:35 PM	Seriously, Boxes are not going to protect you. Thats what couch forts are for.
Iver Gearsham 12-31-06, 05:30 AM	1 It's simple. You're artificially creating a magical arms race. 1AYour familiar is invisible and has nondetection? Fine. After about two combats, 2 expect an enemy to be invisible, have nondetection, and be directly above you. 3 Expect dimensional anchor rays followed by a wall of force with a cloudkill dropped inside of it from an enemy you couldn't even see. 4 Expect transdimensional spells that obliterate your unseen servants, and then 5 followed up with glitterdust dropped from overhead, 6 or opponents with blindsight who see a guy they can't get to locked in a box and a tasty bundle of XP floating nearby. 7 Besides, disintegrate destroys your box. No questions asked, no quarter given, elemental resistance equals no. Or even better, 8 hold action, you step out of box, the disintegrate hits you. 9 One round of the spellcaster doing nothing? Heck no, his familiar is invisible, too, it's above the battlefield, and it's carrying wands. Remember that no tactic is perfect and that 10 locking yourself in a box in any fight, especially in D&D, is a bad idea. 1Ok artificial arms race? Look at Protection from Spell, Spell Turning, Spell Immunity, Energy Resistance, Protection from X, and on and on it all ways was and is an Arms Race. 1A What you don't protect yours? or just stuff them in a Familiar Pocket and forget them? 2That's a DM punishment sinario What my rogue just fails, True Sight not working? for at the high level my foe needs to be to cast four spells in a supprise round I expect to have True Sight going 24/7 while out adventuring at least. 3(you mean Force Cage?) So you have minimum a 13th and 9th lvl mages with possible other fighters and rogues jump me out of the Blue with familiars capable of using wands? and think it a fair CR encounter for my Character alone? 4For Transdimentional spells to work bypassing the box the Casters need to be on another Plane convergent (That's able to see the Material Plane from another) IRC like the Ethereal or Shadow That should up the CR of the Encounter considerably. 5If it all hit the fan like you listed out would be dire indeed and a complete F job by the DM targeting my character without justifying it with solid back story Of foes surviving encounters with me, spending large amounts of time spying and casting divinations, all with a high motivation to do so to target one person of 4 to 6 group of adventurers with their full resources. 6You mean the familiar? who goes with me in the box? 7If at that high a level encounter I could have a Quickened Augment spell in a 7th lvl slot that would give the box double HP and Hardness increases Break DC by 20 And give it Saves as a Attended Item at half caster lvl plus 2 so there is a Question if I want to put it there. 8 Ever heard of Spell Turning? You just D Anchored yourself or Disintegrated If your Dimensional Anchor was successful I would Know from Glowing Green and take action to counter like pop the inside hinges on the bottom door and Earth Glide out and around if I felt like continuing the fight. 9Familiars with Spell casting levels or Use Magic Device? So not happening at Low to Mid levels. 10 I am not locking myself in a box, The Secret door Release Mechanism is supposed to be hidden so foes have to spend time finding it or breaking the door/whole box. And where are my Party Members when all this is happening? Kicking your party down and going for you that's where. High Octane Seriously, Boxes are not going to protect you. That’s what couch forts are for. Yesterday 02:03 PM :D :P I don't have the Upholstery skill:weep: ;) Lakaniss Actually, I see no problem for the familiar to enter that box to, so therefore, cannot be target to... and in much case, monsters don’t all have disintegrates spell, and can loose quite a few rounds before trying to escape because its bored of trying to hit a box and getting hit by spells. Yesterday 02:00 PM Thanks for your support:cool: . Frodo34x Quote: Originally Posted by Iver Gearsham A 10d6 Fireball average damage is 30 3.5 x 10 = 35, not 30. As any wargamer can tell you, the average roll on a d6 is 3.5, not 3. :eek: Oh well lets see the dice roll :D .
Iver Gearsham 01-03-07, 05:27 AM	Spell Matrix is prefect for this Box idea by storing and making it act as a Quickened spell Augment this 3rd lvl spell means I can at ninth lvl make a box from Iron and Make it as Hard as Adamantium with 60 hps per inch of thickness and it gets a save as an attened item at half my caster lvl plus 2. What do you think?
Nytmare 01-03-07, 03:47 PM	With Wall of Stone, Force, and Mirage Arcana all at 5th level as well, it's missing alot of the versatility of other things around that spell level. I'd figure that something that worked more like an umbrella, opening up above and falling around you, would sidestep the silliness of needing a familiar or NPC caddy. You could even fashion it as something that you wore on a glove. For 500 XP a shot for the permanancy it's cheap as far as magical insurance policies go, but it is extremely limited, and there are better ways to run away. PS - High Octane, you freaking kill me.
lukelightning 01-03-07, 04:37 PM	Don't bring a box to a wand fight.
Iver Gearsham 01-04-07, 04:46 AM	Don't bring a box to a wand fight. OK I believe your adapting the saying "Don't bring a Knife to a Gun fight" but why should I fear a wand with spells cast at minimum levels over actual spell casting done by a live wizard? What special advantage do you get in this conflict using a wand over someone blocking and shielding themselves with the box? They can cast from a wand a lot of low caster level spells that suck up a standard action each too small effect and I should be afraid? Nytmare With 1 Wall of Stone, 2 Force, and 3 Mirage Arcana all at 5th level as well, it's missing allot of the versatility of other things around that spell level. 4 I'd figure that something that worked more like an umbrella, opening up above and falling around you, would sidestep the silliness of needing a familiar or NPC caddy. You could even fashion it as something that you wore on a glove. For 500 XP a shot for the permanency it's cheap as far as magical insurance policies go, but it is extremely limited, and 5 there are better ways to run away. Spell Matrix Vs the spells you mentioned in direct competition SM looks weak I admit but let me point out a few things. 1 Wall of Stone nice and solid and shapeable but must merge with preexisting rock or it fails keeping its use limited too a small section of terrain types. It can't form with a creature in it's area, It also is subject to all spells and Disintegrate with no save unless effected by Augment that without SM takes a Standard Action to buff it. 2 Wall of Force lasts rounds per lvl, Can't be shaped, Fails if creatures get in the way when formed (held action to Summon or the like to block it), Gets popped/no save by many spells and magic items that casters do carry regularly, If placed in an "open" environment can be stepped around losing all it's protective value. The box lasts as long as it's Hp are not reduced to Zero, Provides protection from all sides upon first deployment, Would when Augmented resist immediate destruction well, Would not be stopped from forming by a creature in the way, And I can use it nearly anywhere. 3Mirage Arcana is great for ambushes, prebattle terrain shaping but not a good pop out at a moment spell to block your foes spells or volleyed arrows(Hero's of Battle Volley Fire) MA can't actually stop charging attackers unless they can see it and they believe the effect is real, Fireballs fly right through MA arrows fall without regard to Illusions. 4Why would an Umbrella shape remove the standard action required to deploy a Shrunk Item? How do you get out without casting a spell fold it up taking another action out of the combat? And rater than getting Calvin & Hobbs jokes I would get Marry Popins jokes instead. The silliness of using the familiar lets me cast a spell at my foes while I gain the protection of the box Thus injuring or hindering my foes and negating many offensive responses. Making a magic item still leaves a Standard Action to be used by someone and it costs time exp. and money not always available. 5 I would use it too run only in a lopsided conflict like the ones presented before or trapped in a Dimensionally Locked area that I needed to get out of like a Crushing Room trap.
Nytmare 01-04-07, 10:02 AM	You're really splitting hairs. The box is NOT as versatile as any one of those spells. You can shoot down other people's suggestions on a one for one basis like that all day, but you're still not getting around the fact that an unshrunk mundane box isn't as useful as a fifth level spell. 10th+ level characters aren't going to be stymied by this. As for the shape, I didn't mean an umbrella like a stick with a bowl on top, I mean 'umbrella' as in you raise up your hand, say the magic word, and the thing resizes and forms from over top of you, surrounding you. It's not getting around the standard action of unshrinking the item, it's getting around having to have someone else carry it, someone else activate it, and then you wasting time climbing in. Now you're saying that it IS for combat? I thought you were saying that you wanted it so that you could cast a getaway spell without getting peppered with held attacks? Also, how is this going to protect you from a Dimensional Lock? The emanation is the center point, all you'd be making is a dimensionally locked box.
Iver Gearsham 01-06-07, 04:28 AM	Nytmare;11081232]You're really splitting hairs. The box is NOT as versatile as any one of those spells. You can shoot down other people's suggestions on a one for one basis like that all day, but you're still not getting around the fact that an unshrunk mundane box isn't as useful as a fifth level spell. 10th+ level characters aren't going to be stymied by this. The box was not compared to the spells in all situations just to the ones I would use the Box in thus determining which in that occurrence I would want to have. The Box does not cost me a currant daily spell slot so if I can pick up the other spells from purchasing scrolls or taking it from a fallen wizard It has no impact on my capabilities and I have more options than a regular "Just the Facts" wizard who uses only normal slash traditional spells and magic items for adventuring. For example if I had need I could use the Spell Matrixed Augment to toughen a door or wall my party needs to hold against foes breaking through. I could also make the fighters equipment much harder to Sunder or magically destroy on the fly. The box it’s self makes a handy door stop, trap blocker, pit filler, stepping stone, climb booster, and apparently time machine slash cloneomat, tree fort. As for the shape, I didn't mean an umbrella like a stick with a bowl on top, I mean 'umbrella' as in you rise up your hand, say the magic word, and the thing resizes and forms from over top of you, surrounding you. It's not getting around the standard action of unshrinking the item, it's getting around having to have someone else carry it, someone else activate it, and then you wasting time climbing in. If I have my familiar do it I get to do other things such as Take stock of the situation, Attack or retreat to cover that I guarantee is possible if I have a box not relying on my foes to attack me in an area that affords refuge from their attentions. Without the box and familiar I have to take time I may not have to cast a get away spell that may not work under fire from DM only knows what, where or how many. Now you're saying that it IS for combat? I thought you were saying that you wanted it so that you could cast a getaway spell without getting peppered with held attacks? I was given a indirect challenge by all the nay saying stick in the mud’s to find a way to make it work in combat so I made an effort to do so. Also, how is this going to protect you from a Dimensional Lock? The emanation is the center point, all you'd be making is a dimensionally locked box. For this I will equate spell effects emanating from a point to be light and the center of such the Light Bulb. Emanations are like light bulbs filling a room with light if you put a closed solid box in the room is the inside of the box lit/filled with light from that bulb? No. If the emanation centerpoint or the light bulb gets enclosed by the box will the rest of the room be denied the light? Yes. So in or out of the box one way or the other I can get out of the effect.
Iver Gearsham 01-09-07, 03:40 PM	:bump: :gah: not again!
lukelightning 01-10-07, 01:49 PM	The language of the original post makes me think of the Time Cube.
Iver Gearsham 01-12-07, 04:55 AM	The language of the original post makes me think of the Time Cube. whats is Time Cube a tv/movie show?
Grave_Accomplice 01-12-07, 06:50 AM	Make a big box with secret doors on all sides and Shrink Item it down. Why should I? Total cover from spell effects and Breaking Line of Effect. Not many like being in a Dimentional Lock or Forbidance area effect so Drop your box step in and Teleport, Rope Trick or D Door a way. Set it up so that it expands when you drop it (free action). Jump in as a move, cast as a standard. Expect to loose the box though. I'm also not so sure it'll protect against area effect spells like anti-magic.
Devlonir 01-12-07, 07:54 AM	The best way to destroy this box would actually be a Blade barrier, constant damage to the box and the moment the box is destroyed, it's your turn. Oh yea, and right after the blade barrier, the mage in the opposing party will cast force cage around it. Oh, that brings back memories... I remember a campaign where we had a flying half celestial cleric and me as mage. Standard tactic.. Cleric sets action to cast blade barrier right after i cast a circle wall of force around one or more opponents.. If the opponent cant fly, it doesn't matter if he makes his blade barrier reflex save, because he cannot move out of the area. Our party called that move 'The Blender'
lukelightning 01-12-07, 09:48 AM	whats is Time Cube a tv/movie show? There's no way I can explain Time Cube (http://www.timecube.com/)!
jaelis 01-12-07, 10:20 AM	Call me crazy I am jumping into a Box! Iver Gearsham, you are crazy.
Iver Gearsham 01-12-07, 11:29 AM	There's no way I can explain Time Cube (http://www.timecube.com/)!Wow! thats wacky! Iver Gearsham, you are crazy. Thank you thank you :bravo: :cookie: :cookie: two cooky goodness for jaelis