Called Shot question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Called Shot question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daehan
07-16-05, 02:11 PM Last night, I was playing in a campaign and the DM was fairly new to DMing.

One of the players used a called shot twice during the session. The first time was to attack them at the ankle, trying to hamstring them. There is a feat to hamstring; so should he be able to add effects like this when using a called shot? (He did not have the hamstring feat)

Second time; he made a called shot to the throat. Dealing something like 20 damage to an ogre (yes he was standing on a boulder at the time). This was not enough to drop him normally, but since it was a called shot, should it have killed him? (The DM ruled that it killed the ogre)

Just to clarify, does a called shot exist in 3.5 and what are the stats on this?

Thanks.
ClementWillowbreaker
07-16-05, 02:27 PM Called Shots exist- here they are:

Sneak Attack
Sudden Strike
Death Attack
Hamstring
Stunning Fist
Trip
Disarm
Sunder
Favored Enemy
Coup de Grace
Find the Gap/Deft Strike
Weakening Critical
Critical Hits
Power Attack

And there may be a few more. These are how you aim for specific things in DnD. You cannot just aim for the dragon's eye and say you kill it. It is incredibly broken to allow a player to take a penalty to hit to instantly kill, maim, or incapacitate an enemy without taking feats, PrCs, etc.
Daehan
07-16-05, 02:42 PM Thank you. I have read the source books several times and never remembered if called shots existed. I figured it would be easier to ask than to continue searching for something I didn't even think existed. I will bring that up to our DM next session. I always thought your attacks didn't do anything special unless you have a specific ability/feat that says you do. (Exceptions including specific actions listed in the source books)
Thorak
07-16-05, 03:54 PM Called shots don't exist outside the various forms CWB listed (and possibly others he missed). There are very good reasons for this.

First, it's assumed you're trying to do the most damage possible. You don't get to make called shots to the head because it's assumed you're trying to hit them in the head anyway.

Second, True Strike breaks every single called-shot system. It's a 1st level spell, and it gives you +20 to hit. The 'standard' called-shot system I keep seeing involves a -4 to hit a big target like a limb, and a -8 or -12 to hit a smaller one, like a throat or an eye.

And True Strike means that, by taking 1 level of Sorceror, you can get insta-kills with effective bonuses to hit, shooting people in the eye.

Penalties to hit don't balance out called shots. Not outside of the mechanics already provided in things like Power Attack.
tarkin
07-16-05, 04:13 PM To take the Hamstring Feat you have to be a rogue, using Sneak Attack.

There is no feat that allows a called shot to the the throat that I have heard of.

Basically, look at the players you are playing with. When people ask you where they are from, just say Oz.
Daehan
07-16-05, 04:26 PM Well, these players are also co-workers and friends. Two of the players tend to use "common sense" instead of rules. I am trying to take it one step at a time. The saddest thing is that they play D&D all the time, but still don't take the time to read the rules.

I left out the part about that player being a scout standing on a boulder doing a called shot to the neck. I noticed he had been rolling before his turn, so he could have just rolled several times until he got what he wanted. He used a rapier and crit'd with this called shot. He was originally saying he did in the 30's for damage. I had to call him out and ask him how he got his numbers. He was using his skirmish damage and didn't move, if he did move, then he had better take an AoO for getting down from that rock.

In short, two of the players are kinda ******* me off. Why play D&D if you don't want to play by the rules. I like to shine during combat too, but I want it to be from the rules and actually rolling good every now and then.

This will take a few sessions to hash out, and I am hoping the DM shows up early so I can have a few words with him. This crap would not fly in my campaign at all.

Thanks for clarifying the called shots, this will be resolved at the next session.
Thorak
07-16-05, 07:35 PM Thanks for clarifying the called shots, this will be resolved at the next session.
Just as a suggestion, just talk to the DM. If he sees your point, suggest this course of action; let the guys take called shots. Don't even penalize them for it. Just don't give them any benefit for it. Maybe they try and hit the guy in the head, and he ducks aside and it hits their shoulder, or some such. A hit with a called shot doesn't have to mean you hit what you aimed at; the enemy's moving just as much as you are. The guys in question might be perfectly happy to be able to hit the targets they want, even if there's no special effect, and this keeps there from being too much of a dustup.
cmrscorpio
07-16-05, 07:43 PM Well, these players are also co-workers and friends. Two of the players tend to use "common sense" instead of rules.

arg, I feel your pain. There is nothing I hate more than players who try to do this to a DM, especially to a new DM.

What you need to do is talk to the DM like Thorak suggested. If the players try to argue in favor of special bonuses with their called shots, tell them that "called shots" do not exist in the rules. State the well-written reasons that Thorak gave as to why called shot rules do not exist.

Then tell them the D&D rules *simulate* a fantasy world. They do not replicate the real world. Sometimes it is necessary that "common sense" be taken with a grain of salt in the interest of game balance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daehan 07-16-05, 02:11 PM	Last night, I was playing in a campaign and the DM was fairly new to DMing. One of the players used a called shot twice during the session. The first time was to attack them at the ankle, trying to hamstring them. There is a feat to hamstring; so should he be able to add effects like this when using a called shot? (He did not have the hamstring feat) Second time; he made a called shot to the throat. Dealing something like 20 damage to an ogre (yes he was standing on a boulder at the time). This was not enough to drop him normally, but since it was a called shot, should it have killed him? (The DM ruled that it killed the ogre) Just to clarify, does a called shot exist in 3.5 and what are the stats on this? Thanks.
ClementWillowbreaker 07-16-05, 02:27 PM	Called Shots exist- here they are: Sneak Attack Sudden Strike Death Attack Hamstring Stunning Fist Trip Disarm Sunder Favored Enemy Coup de Grace Find the Gap/Deft Strike Weakening Critical Critical Hits Power Attack And there may be a few more. These are how you aim for specific things in DnD. You cannot just aim for the dragon's eye and say you kill it. It is incredibly broken to allow a player to take a penalty to hit to instantly kill, maim, or incapacitate an enemy without taking feats, PrCs, etc.
Daehan 07-16-05, 02:42 PM	Thank you. I have read the source books several times and never remembered if called shots existed. I figured it would be easier to ask than to continue searching for something I didn't even think existed. I will bring that up to our DM next session. I always thought your attacks didn't do anything special unless you have a specific ability/feat that says you do. (Exceptions including specific actions listed in the source books)
Thorak 07-16-05, 03:54 PM	Called shots don't exist outside the various forms CWB listed (and possibly others he missed). There are very good reasons for this. First, it's assumed you're trying to do the most damage possible. You don't get to make called shots to the head because it's assumed you're trying to hit them in the head anyway. Second, True Strike breaks every single called-shot system. It's a 1st level spell, and it gives you +20 to hit. The 'standard' called-shot system I keep seeing involves a -4 to hit a big target like a limb, and a -8 or -12 to hit a smaller one, like a throat or an eye. And True Strike means that, by taking 1 level of Sorceror, you can get insta-kills with effective bonuses to hit, shooting people in the eye. Penalties to hit don't balance out called shots. Not outside of the mechanics already provided in things like Power Attack.
tarkin 07-16-05, 04:13 PM	To take the Hamstring Feat you have to be a rogue, using Sneak Attack. There is no feat that allows a called shot to the the throat that I have heard of. Basically, look at the players you are playing with. When people ask you where they are from, just say Oz.
Daehan 07-16-05, 04:26 PM	Well, these players are also co-workers and friends. Two of the players tend to use "common sense" instead of rules. I am trying to take it one step at a time. The saddest thing is that they play D&D all the time, but still don't take the time to read the rules. I left out the part about that player being a scout standing on a boulder doing a called shot to the neck. I noticed he had been rolling before his turn, so he could have just rolled several times until he got what he wanted. He used a rapier and crit'd with this called shot. He was originally saying he did in the 30's for damage. I had to call him out and ask him how he got his numbers. He was using his skirmish damage and didn't move, if he did move, then he had better take an AoO for getting down from that rock. In short, two of the players are kinda ******* me off. Why play D&D if you don't want to play by the rules. I like to shine during combat too, but I want it to be from the rules and actually rolling good every now and then. This will take a few sessions to hash out, and I am hoping the DM shows up early so I can have a few words with him. This crap would not fly in my campaign at all. Thanks for clarifying the called shots, this will be resolved at the next session.
Thorak 07-16-05, 07:35 PM	Thanks for clarifying the called shots, this will be resolved at the next session. Just as a suggestion, just talk to the DM. If he sees your point, suggest this course of action; let the guys take called shots. Don't even penalize them for it. Just don't give them any benefit for it. Maybe they try and hit the guy in the head, and he ducks aside and it hits their shoulder, or some such. A hit with a called shot doesn't have to mean you hit what you aimed at; the enemy's moving just as much as you are. The guys in question might be perfectly happy to be able to hit the targets they want, even if there's no special effect, and this keeps there from being too much of a dustup.
cmrscorpio 07-16-05, 07:43 PM	Well, these players are also co-workers and friends. Two of the players tend to use "common sense" instead of rules. arg, I feel your pain. There is nothing I hate more than players who try to do this to a DM, especially to a new DM. What you need to do is talk to the DM like Thorak suggested. If the players try to argue in favor of special bonuses with their called shots, tell them that "called shots" do not exist in the rules. State the well-written reasons that Thorak gave as to why called shot rules do not exist. Then tell them the D&D rules simulate a fantasy world. They do not replicate the real world. Sometimes it is necessary that "common sense" be taken with a grain of salt in the interest of game balance.