Called shot [Archive] - Wizards Community

Called shot [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chronocrosselite
09-20-05, 06:00 AM where can i find the rules for Called shots?
Illithid Tentacles
09-20-05, 06:53 AM Second edition.
MJ the Prophet
09-20-05, 07:08 AM There are no longer official rules for the "called shot." You can target items, as explained in the Combat section of the PHB, but not specific body parts. If you'd like to house-rule it, feel free. It shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from the item targeting rules.
chronocrosselite
09-20-05, 07:23 AM how about a -8 to hit for 1d6 extra dmg?
Nom
09-20-05, 07:37 AM how about a -8 to hit for 1d6 extra dmg?Why bother? You can power attack for -8 for at least +8 damage, if not +16, and it is included in a critical (unlike +1d6).

If you want a "precise strike" ability, take a few rogue levels (for sneak attack) and learn Improved Feint. This basically does what you are proposing.
Rake
09-20-05, 09:03 AM I've houseruled the issue because I like the idea of calling a shot to the hand, leg, groin, etc. I rule that the attack takes a -4 penalty and if you deal damage equal to 1/10 of the character's HP, that body part is "damaged" as per the DMG. You can't call a shot to a vital area like the head or the chest... a 'called shot to the head' is called an attack roll. Unless you declare otherwise, you're -always- trying to hit a vital area, right?
tarkin
09-20-05, 09:16 AM Rake, those rules can be abused. Power Attack already tells you that for a -4, the most that can be called fair is +8.

The main problem with using rules that grant huge damage with a penalty to hit is that there is a TON of ways to get massive bonuses to hit. Even if you force them to take a -20, the spell True Strike means you just made a first level spell do it.

There are Called Shots rules in 3.5, they are just not called Called Shots

Some examples are:

Power Attack.
Trip
Disarm
Sunder
Sneak Attack
Hamstring (Sneak Attack feat)
Crippling Strike (Rogue ability)
Assasin's Death Attack
Coup De Grace
Stunning Fist
bolgar
09-20-05, 11:29 AM Rake, those rules can be abused. (...)

The main problem with using rules that grant huge damage with a penalty to hit is that there is a TON of ways to get massive bonuses to hit.(...)

You did not really read Rake's post, did you?

Nowhere did he talk about dealing huge damage. He said he wanted called shots dealing specific kinds of damage according to the DMG's variant rule on damage to specific areas. If you'd take the time and look it up (p. 27) before you critisize it, you'd see that it is not endangering game balance.
tarkin
09-20-05, 03:03 PM Body part damaged as per rules in DMG is huge damage.

Blindness in particular.

The things that are on that chart might be appropriate as individual feats, not something you can do at will.
Zebek
09-20-05, 08:01 PM Doesn't using a system of hit locations go against the whole concept of D&D hit points? A 100 hit point character doesn't, for example, have 10 pts per limb, 10 pts for the head and 50 for the torso. Only a small portion of the hit point total is physical - the rest is skill, luck, divine favour and so on; it's a heroic system rather than a simulation. A 10 pt slash to the hand will not sever the body part - it may barely cut the skin - but 10 hit pts will be lost. Weapons should do damage to the total or death (e.g. vorpal). There are features of the game (mentioned in previous posts) that provide something similar but they are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules IMHO.
Darkprince
09-21-05, 12:25 PM Called shots are the devil. They allow too much for powergaming. I had a bard that had a Bow of True Strike(or whatever it was called from the Sword and Fist). Whenever we encountered a wizard or whatever, I enacted the true strike ability and called shot his hand, throat, anything that would hinder his spell casting. It is too beefy. A barbarian could get a great axe with the true strike ability, and rage..power attack..then called shot to the neck. I don't care what hit points represent, 20-30+ damage to the neck lops your head off.
Zebek
09-21-05, 12:57 PM I don't care what hit points represent, 20-30+ damage to the neck lops your head off.

As a DM I'd allow that if it was a killing blow (to -10). But, anyway, D&D is such a mish-mash of heroic and non-heroic combat rules layered on top of each other over the decades that you really need to avoid looking too deeply. Otherwise you'll start questioning how CON bonuses give you hit points every level when your physical body can only stand a few stabs of a sword; or how vorpal blades can kill in one slice; or how criticals and sneak attacks can work; or how you keep all your hit points when you're asleep; and so on. The answer is "because that's how it's always been (for most players)" rather than "because that's how the hit point system works".
hazardnwt
09-21-05, 02:41 PM Well in one of the books, Qunti Fighter I do believe, It say s that to make a called shot you need to critical. Now that makes sense to me.

You get the extra damage, and it's harder to hit.
And I think it does show the fact that buddy boy there just isn't going to stand still for you to slit his throat, and hey if he is standing still (as in being held, or helpless) you get a automatic critical (Coup De Grace).

So if you manage that Critical, go ahead and do the damage to body part rules. I know in real life that I'd be TRYING (probablly with no luck...I crit on a 20...lol) to take out the eye's of a powerful monster.

This is what I use in my game, and I haven't found it unbalancing at the least.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chronocrosselite 09-20-05, 06:00 AM	where can i find the rules for Called shots?
Illithid Tentacles 09-20-05, 06:53 AM	Second edition.
MJ the Prophet 09-20-05, 07:08 AM	There are no longer official rules for the "called shot." You can target items, as explained in the Combat section of the PHB, but not specific body parts. If you'd like to house-rule it, feel free. It shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from the item targeting rules.
chronocrosselite 09-20-05, 07:23 AM	how about a -8 to hit for 1d6 extra dmg?
Nom 09-20-05, 07:37 AM	how about a -8 to hit for 1d6 extra dmg?Why bother? You can power attack for -8 for at least +8 damage, if not +16, and it is included in a critical (unlike +1d6). If you want a "precise strike" ability, take a few rogue levels (for sneak attack) and learn Improved Feint. This basically does what you are proposing.
Rake 09-20-05, 09:03 AM	I've houseruled the issue because I like the idea of calling a shot to the hand, leg, groin, etc. I rule that the attack takes a -4 penalty and if you deal damage equal to 1/10 of the character's HP, that body part is "damaged" as per the DMG. You can't call a shot to a vital area like the head or the chest... a 'called shot to the head' is called an attack roll. Unless you declare otherwise, you're -always- trying to hit a vital area, right?
tarkin 09-20-05, 09:16 AM	Rake, those rules can be abused. Power Attack already tells you that for a -4, the most that can be called fair is +8. The main problem with using rules that grant huge damage with a penalty to hit is that there is a TON of ways to get massive bonuses to hit. Even if you force them to take a -20, the spell True Strike means you just made a first level spell do it. There are Called Shots rules in 3.5, they are just not called Called Shots Some examples are: Power Attack. Trip Disarm Sunder Sneak Attack Hamstring (Sneak Attack feat) Crippling Strike (Rogue ability) Assasin's Death Attack Coup De Grace Stunning Fist
bolgar 09-20-05, 11:29 AM	Rake, those rules can be abused. (...) The main problem with using rules that grant huge damage with a penalty to hit is that there is a TON of ways to get massive bonuses to hit.(...) You did not really read Rake's post, did you? Nowhere did he talk about dealing huge damage. He said he wanted called shots dealing specific kinds of damage according to the DMG's variant rule on damage to specific areas. If you'd take the time and look it up (p. 27) before you critisize it, you'd see that it is not endangering game balance.
tarkin 09-20-05, 03:03 PM	Body part damaged as per rules in DMG is huge damage. Blindness in particular. The things that are on that chart might be appropriate as individual feats, not something you can do at will.
Zebek 09-20-05, 08:01 PM	Doesn't using a system of hit locations go against the whole concept of D&D hit points? A 100 hit point character doesn't, for example, have 10 pts per limb, 10 pts for the head and 50 for the torso. Only a small portion of the hit point total is physical - the rest is skill, luck, divine favour and so on; it's a heroic system rather than a simulation. A 10 pt slash to the hand will not sever the body part - it may barely cut the skin - but 10 hit pts will be lost. Weapons should do damage to the total or death (e.g. vorpal). There are features of the game (mentioned in previous posts) that provide something similar but they are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules IMHO.
Darkprince 09-21-05, 12:25 PM	Called shots are the devil. They allow too much for powergaming. I had a bard that had a Bow of True Strike(or whatever it was called from the Sword and Fist). Whenever we encountered a wizard or whatever, I enacted the true strike ability and called shot his hand, throat, anything that would hinder his spell casting. It is too beefy. A barbarian could get a great axe with the true strike ability, and rage..power attack..then called shot to the neck. I don't care what hit points represent, 20-30+ damage to the neck lops your head off.
Zebek 09-21-05, 12:57 PM	I don't care what hit points represent, 20-30+ damage to the neck lops your head off. As a DM I'd allow that if it was a killing blow (to -10). But, anyway, D&D is such a mish-mash of heroic and non-heroic combat rules layered on top of each other over the decades that you really need to avoid looking too deeply. Otherwise you'll start questioning how CON bonuses give you hit points every level when your physical body can only stand a few stabs of a sword; or how vorpal blades can kill in one slice; or how criticals and sneak attacks can work; or how you keep all your hit points when you're asleep; and so on. The answer is "because that's how it's always been (for most players)" rather than "because that's how the hit point system works".
hazardnwt 09-21-05, 02:41 PM	Well in one of the books, Qunti Fighter I do believe, It say s that to make a called shot you need to critical. Now that makes sense to me. You get the extra damage, and it's harder to hit. And I think it does show the fact that buddy boy there just isn't going to stand still for you to slit his throat, and hey if he is standing still (as in being held, or helpless) you get a automatic critical (Coup De Grace). So if you manage that Critical, go ahead and do the damage to body part rules. I know in real life that I'd be TRYING (probablly with no luck...I crit on a 20...lol) to take out the eye's of a powerful monster. This is what I use in my game, and I haven't found it unbalancing at the least.