Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arkenthras 01-18-06, 12:36 AM	Yesterday, I made a called shot to the head of a monster, scored a critical hit for around 40 points of damage. The monster still had a fair amount of hp left (around 60), but I hit it in the head. The DM ruled that it was killed instantly because of the called shot after we all searched the d20 srd, the DMG, and the PHB. We couldn't find anything about called shots, although we all know they exist, and generally add modifiers to attack roles in multiples of -4 for difficulty (I believe it's -8 for attack a creature's head, though I don't know where I have seen this information). Can anyone tell me where to find the rules/tell me the rules regarding called shots?
weasel0 01-18-06, 01:12 AM	I think there is an Adventure Guide or something as such out there. Well, I know there is but I can't remember the name of it. Besides I didn't much like the D&D optional rules for called shots or crits either. I perfer KenzerCo and their HackMaster's deadly little concoction of a crit list and called shots. Limbs elbows/knees and down can take 10% damage until useless, elbows/knees up can take full 100% damage. Limbs -4, torso -2, neck head -4, anything smaller(aka a vital organ or eye)-6. Also, yes it's harder to hit but it also increased the crit range making the damage much worse for the victem. But the game is a bit deadlier than D&D. It states up front that it's player vs. GM. I think the D&D book i know is 3rd ed. It's a bit softer but still can add much flavor to the game so you can visualize the damage and not be like uhm i hit it for 26pts. It looks bloody. Now it's you liberate his left leg at the knee and a pool begins to develop under the stump. Ususally the increase in damage. Trying to find it though with all the 3.5s out it's kinda hard. :w00t:
ScipioX 01-18-06, 01:35 AM	Called shots don't exist in 3.0 + for the simple reason that they are not compatible with a hp system. Nor are they compatible with a system that makes it easy to get huge bonus' to attack rolls, thereby garunteeing called shots to the head will hit every time. (think true strike or wraithstrike) A mere -8 penalty is worth around 16 damage from power attack. But in your example it effectively did an extra 60 damage. Any balanced 3.X system will not have called shots in any meaningful form. The DM should merely describe the effects of the blow based on how much of the targets HP's you hit for. Thus a shot to the head that does 6 out of 100 HP would be a nick on the ear, while 50 odd damage might be a cut that lays open half the face and cuts off the nose. In neither case is any extra damage done.
Viper3220 01-18-06, 01:40 AM	As far as I can tell... they got rid of called shot in 3rd edition. Being able to shoot an enemy.... where ever you want for a little penalty... is a little overpowering and would make most D&D fights a little too short. Critical hits and sneak attacks (I think anyway) are defined as hitting a vital spot (neck or head or something) and if they are still alive means that the neck cut wasn't that deep or the enemy jumped back a little bit. It's all in how you imagine it.
20102000 01-18-06, 09:30 AM	Can anyone tell me where to find the rules/tell me the rules regarding called shots? As posted above there are no called shots rules in 3.x Otherwise you'd use them every attack. One of Monte Cooks supplements has suggested rules for attacking specfied parts of the body. The're along the lines of every +2 damage gives you -5 to hit. And non hit point effects , such as reducing attributes, movement speed , dazing victim. Are -10 to -20 to hit, with saves or opposed rolls.
draconic_swine 01-18-06, 11:54 AM	For a pretty convincing reason why called shots shouldn't exist in 3.X: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/calledshots.html
tarkin 01-18-06, 12:33 PM	The people that are saying "Called shots don't exist", really mean: "Called shots like the one you seem to think are possible don't exist in 3.0" There are however lots of called shots that do exist, but none anywhere NEAR as powerfull as the kind of stuff you want, or most 1st/2nd edition think of when they say "called shots". Part of the problem is the existence of spells like True Strike, which make what your DM did foolish. ------------------- However, "called shots" by which we mean shots targetted at specific body parts, do exist in 3.0 and 3.5, just far less powerfull. Examples of Called shots include but are not limited to: Power Attack (penalty to hit, bonus to damage...) Sneak Attack Sneak attack related feats such as Hamstring and Arterial Strike Crippling Strike (Rogue special ability) Assasin's Death attack Monk's Quivering Palm Stunning Blow Disarm Trip Sunder ... There are many more. There is also the "50 point variant rule" for massive damage. If you take excessive damage, you must save or die using this rule.
SolenVlos 01-18-06, 03:11 PM	me and my group are allowed to use called shots in our games. but our called shots are for roleplay terms only. you want to hit the troll between the eyes? go ahead. normal AC. normal damage. the troll now have an arrow in the forhead. same coolness. the only exception was when a friend of my said: He: I want to hit the giant in the foot. Group: cool, he won't be able to flee. He: hu, ok, but I just wanted to make in bleed a lot.
Nitrokitty 01-18-06, 04:54 PM	You might use called shots as a variant of the Called Shot feat from Neverwinter Nights. You make a called shot against the opponent's head, neck, arms, or legs. These attacks are made at a -4 penalty for the legs and arms and -8 for head and neck. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender, unless you have the Improved Called Shot feat (req. Combat Expertise). If the attack hits, the opponent must make a Fortitude save equal to 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dex modifier. If they fail their save, the following effects occur: Head: Staggered for 1 round, can only take a partial action on their turn. Neck: Silenced for 1 round. Arms: -2 to attack rolls. Legs: Halved movement speed. Any of these effects are removed by a DC 15 Heal check or at least 1 point of magical healing.
Sae Cael Oanar 01-18-06, 05:00 PM	you are shooting to the best of your ability. thats what attacks are.
colyn kell 01-18-06, 05:38 PM	I house ruled called shots once, and they didn't turn out too bad. If anyone cares, here's what I did. If your firing at something like an eye(I think that would be considered a diminutive creature) add the diminutive ac bonus, to the ac of the creature. If the attack hits, I deals double base dmg. It worked out alright for the one or two times people tried it. Plus, it gave the dm a little extra to describe. Ignore it, ridicule it, whatever, but that's my input.
draconic_swine 01-18-06, 10:29 PM	I've seen pretty much that exact same house rule before, and I think it's the best way to do called shots (if you're gonna do them at all, which I wouldn't). Only thing is, you'd really need to have different effects for different areas hit. If it's a blanket x2 damage, why would anyone bother taking the -8 to attack to fire at an eye, why they could take something like a -2 to hit a torso to the same effect?
colyn kell 01-19-06, 11:13 AM	We used different effects for different areas hit. If you pulled it off, and hit an eye, you not only dealt double damage, but you also blinded one of the creatures eyes. This just gave the creature (assuming it had only 2 eyes) something like -2 to -4 to hit, I cant remember which. Like I said though, we hardly used it. It is better to just shoot the thing more often than not.
Arkenthras 01-19-06, 08:32 PM	Thanks for the feedback. I definitely understand how called shots can be abused, so I'll be sure to let my DM know. Almost everyone in the campaign I'm in right now has been casually playing since 1st or 2nd Ed., so we all thought called shots were still in it. Sorry for asking a stupid question, and thanks again.
Vahenir 01-19-06, 10:12 PM	Try to nab the Bastion Press supplement Torn Asunder. It has effects for critical hits like severing arms and instant kills. It's a balanced, enjoyable alternative to the abusable and utterly flawed concept of called shots. You may find that it really fits your gaming style. There are probably some reviews of it on Gaming Report or elsewhere.
Subedei 01-19-06, 11:33 PM	I agreed, Vahenir. Give me called shots and I will shatter your game balance and grind it to dust.
Sae Cael Oanar 01-19-06, 11:57 PM	an eye would be a diminuitive creature with 3/4 cover i believe. this is added to the current ac bonus, because well, if we're talking about aiming for the eye because its easier to hit as opposed to pierce the magic full plate, thats ridiculous. that ammounts to someone getting a reflex save to avoid a weapon hitting them. i would warrant it does no damage to the creature, only to the eye, which we'll say has 1hp. if you try to shoot its eye. its effect is -2 to a bunch of stuff. criticals wouldnt do extra damage in this case the creature itself would take the penalty, but otherwise be completely able. id also warrant you could attack a calf to half the speed of a creature. id say this kind of attack gets an aoo, becuase your doing something funky. this has to be done with a melee weapon. it has no further effect if you keep doing it. the eye deal might still be over powered, to tell you the truth, because if the wizards fireball has absolutely no chance of hitting it, why does your bolt.
Romanus_Mortus 01-20-06, 04:24 AM	I totally agree that there are no called shots, per-se, in 3.X I aslo agree that this is for many good reasons, as outlined above. I generally allow a house rule when I DM that is along the lines of many prestige feats, and the assassin abilities. I allow a "called shot" against an enemy who is flat-footed (due to invisibility, surprise, etc). In order to make the shot, I apply a size-based bonus to the AC of the target region on the creature. I also allow up to three rounds of observation, at +1 to hit/round spent. There is rarely extra physical damage, and I almost never allow killing blows against a creature with more than 1 HD. The benefit of the "called shot" is for when you want to put an arrow through the neck of a guard so he doesn't scream, or pin someone's hand to a door, that sort of thing. Again, this rule really requires a high level of understanding between the DM and the group, who must trust the DM to adjucate in a fair and responsible way. Really, I think many issues, like this one, have far less to do with mechanics or balance, and alot more to do with the maturity of the players (especially the DM)...but that's a different discussion
Jexl 01-20-06, 11:04 AM	I used to have called shots back in second edition - and had too many players take advantage of it, killing off my monsters in just a few blows, beheading them, or chopping thier arms off and stuff. It stopped quick when I started implementing the same rule to the players, and ended up killing the whole party with called shots to the head. During this time, I did tell the players that I didn't agree with this, and that they should not be able to do called shots on final encounters of the adventure and stuff - and they proceeded to dispute this with me and kept going. So, I did what I did because they refused to co-operate with me. I was not letting my main villain go down in 1-3 hits and the players hardly had any damage at all. So at this point on, I will never use called shots. It unbalances the game too much, and I don't want to impose too many rules where it takes 5 minutes to figure out effects of what a hit was and all the calculations. Just my input on why I don't implement them anymore.
d_nychus 01-20-06, 11:26 AM	I remember a guy who utterly hated WotC running a D&D demo game at gaming store after 3e had just come out. I was surprised by this but didn't care enough to take part. Later on, he and I were talking, and he told me how horrible D&D had become in the hands of WotC, and how unbalanced and ridiculous 3e was. He told me how the PCs at 5th level were literally tear apart monsters of CR 13+. I found out later found out he had decided to implement the -4 penalty to hit for called shot rule, and the players had milked it for all it was worth, doing called shots for killing blows. Even the wizard had apparently stopped casting spells and was attacking with his staff at a -4 penalty, because even though he didn't hit often, he was killing giants or dragons with a single blow when he did hit. Of course, the guy could never accept that it was this dumb ruling that broke that game. I mean, afterall, TSR had it in 2e, so therefore it must be balanced. :rolleyes: My advice to anyone who does any form of called shot in 3e. Don't let it increase the damage, and don't tie called shots with criticals. I suggest that called shots require a version of a sunder attempt, and if you make a called shot, you do normal damage but give a penalty, like -2 to attacks if you strike a hand, or reduced movement if you hit the feet, or partial blindness if you hit the eyes. To allow much more than that is to invite imbalance to the game. More may work out in certain games, but in general, it seems very risky.
calvinNhobbes 01-20-06, 12:15 PM	I have not played in awhile, but when I was DM I did not use called shots, but instead used the following system. I would wait to see what the attack roll and damage roll were before describing any action and would use the two to decide the what had happened. Remember an AC is a combination of several factors. For example: Natural armor/agility(10), dex bonus (+1), armor (+5), shield (+1). For humans natural armor (skin) is not doing much, so most of the natural AC is from the ability to predict, manuver and avoid attacks. So if a monster rolled a 1-11, he completely missed the character (Nat AC+ dex bonus). If the monster rolled 12, the character blocked the attack with the shield, a 13-17, the monster struck the character but on an armored portion of their body and the armor held (ex. the goblin lunges forward with his sword, but the blade bounces harmlessly off your steel breatpalte). 18-20 and you get hit on a nonarmored portion or it gets through an armored portion. Roll damage. Say your charcter has 10 hps. 1-2 damage (ex, the goblin swings a slices your forarm, the wound is long but not deep. 3-4 damage (the goblin jabs the blade into your unarmored thigh, deep into the muscle, you clech your teeth in agony, stumble back an fall to your knee, blood oozing from teh wound. 5-6 (the goblin dodges your swing and stabs the underneath of your right arm, just above your breastplate, your armor prevents it from going to deep, but you can feel your rib crack and compress your lung, you retreat a few steps trying to catch your breath. The AC is a number that represents the chance of hitting a part that can be damaged. The damage tells you what part and how bad. Another example, same 10 hp fighter facing an ogre. The ogre rolls a 19 and 14 damage. The ogre brings his massive war club crashing down onto your skull. Everything goes dark and quiet as your party watches as your head explodes and your body collapses to the ground in a crumpled pile.