Caltrops in a tornado? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Caltrops in a tornado? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zavin
07-25-05, 04:42 PM Ok, I bought a bunch of caltrops and currently have the ability to make a tornado (winds 175+ mph), How much damage would a caltrop do if it was thrown into that wind and then struck someone? I currently have 5000 square feet of caltrops, notthat I would use all of them at once though.
Vaalingrade Ashland
07-25-05, 05:02 PM Ad hoc ruling, I would say caltrops whirling in a tornado would works as a summoned Swarm of bats, dealing 1d6 damage/round to any creature within the area of the tornado.
zavin
07-26-05, 07:51 PM But they way I figure, a caltrop going over 175+ mph would go right through a sheet of metal, let alone bone.
CryoSilver
07-26-05, 07:57 PM So would a crossbow bolt, and that has more mass than a caltrop, so 1d6 to 1d10 wouldn't be unreasonable, maybe with reflex DC 15 for half. Just because you can launch the caltrops does mean you can aim them very well.
kgbspy
07-26-05, 08:04 PM ouchies, my opinion you are talking at least 1d8/caltrop that hits, and a chance to be wounded in some critical body part (eyes and so forth)
CryoSilver
07-26-05, 08:10 PM Being in an arrow volley presents with that same chance of being injured in an eye or such, but I think called shots are avoided for a very good reason; it becomes very easy for such a system to be exploited.

I would say that if you are in a square that the caltrops pass through, you take 1d10 (2d6 at the absolute maximum) damage with a Reflex save at DC 15 for half for all of them as a single attack.

If you can aim them individually: damage as a dart, no strength bonus, assess as a normal ranged attack without wind penalties.
sleazeonwheels
07-26-05, 08:12 PM Doesn't the tornado do damage by itself?
Zyphria
07-26-05, 08:14 PM Yes, and in straight AD&D, you can still run a marathon, climb mountains, and dance a jig with 1hp.
High Octane
07-26-05, 08:42 PM Caltrops in a tornado.

Ouch.
CryoSilver
07-26-05, 09:00 PM Yes, but if you look at stats for other weapons, such as guns, they still only do 1d8 to 1d12, and those projectiles are going sugnificantly faster than 175 mph (and the caltrop won't reach those speeds). Furthermore, looking at stats for dart traps and such, 1d8-10 seems more than reasonable to me, going as high as 2d10 if you use a lot of caltrops, and I mean a LOT.
Antioch
07-26-05, 11:57 PM Vaal has the same idea I do; treat it as a swarm effect. Creatures caught within the swarm automatically suffer damage/round. Due to the abstract nature of hit points and damage allocation, dont make it too high as well.
Keenath
07-27-05, 12:32 AM From the System Reference Document:
Tornado (CR 10): All flames are extinguished. All ranged attacks are impossible (even with siege weapons), as are Listen checks. Instead of being blown away (see Table: Wind Effects), characters in close proximity to a tornado who fail their Fortitude saves are sucked toward the tornado. Those who come in contact with the actual funnel cloud are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 rounds, taking 6d6 points of damage per round, before being violently expelled (falling damage may apply). While a tornado’s rotational speed can be as great as 300 mph, the funnel itself moves forward at an average of 30 mph (roughly 250 feet per round). A tornado uproots trees, destroys buildings, and causes other similar forms of major destruction.The D&D rules don't take into account what the tornado has sucked up to deal damage with. It's 6d6 per round for 1d10 rounds. A tornado on the ocean does this damage; so does a tornado that just sucked up the combined contents of a knife factory and a glass-blower's shop.

Throwing caltrops into a tornado doesn't increase or alter the damage at all, it's just where the 6d6 damage is coming from at the moment.
primemover003
07-27-05, 01:26 AM :thumbsup: What Keenath said... there's already enough debris in a Twister, adding caltrops is a shotglass in a swimming pool.
Vaalingrade Ashland
07-27-05, 02:59 AM With his ridiculous number of caltrops though, I'd change the damage type to slashing.
mrurbanitesmiley
07-27-05, 04:24 AM But caltrops are pokey, not slicey!
Vaalingrade Ashland
07-27-05, 01:06 PM But caltrops are pokey, not slicey!
Moving at 150mph over the skin, you better believe they're slicy ;)
bjorntfh
07-27-05, 01:30 PM I'd say if you add 5000 caltrops to a tornado you ought to increase the damage by 1 die (to 6d8.) Mind you you're probably never getting those caltrops back.
WhiteHarness
07-28-05, 10:39 AM But they way I figure, a caltrop going over 175+ mph would go right through a sheet of metal, let alone bone.

Yes, but arrows go 175mph or faster, and the point of a caltrop doesn't have the same mass behind it as an arrowhead; moreover caltrops are hardly aerodynamic and would have a lot more drag than an arrow. Finally, the other prongs on a caltrop that stick out at angles to whichever point had struck the target would act like the 'wings' on a winged spear: they'd stop it from going in too deep and therefore wouldn't do all that much damage.

I don't see a caltrop traveling at 175mph as being much of a threat to a sheet of metal at all, unless it were aluminum foil. If it were going at say, the rate of a bullet, then maybe...
Vahenir
07-28-05, 10:54 AM I'm pretty much in agreement that, besides cutting you up, this wouldn't really change how the tornado hurts you.

However - if you really must have it do something special, why not just treat it like a Blade Barrier spell with a Caster Level equal to half of your character level, in addition to normal tornado damage?
tharivol266
07-28-05, 11:08 AM what is the rating for wind that'd itd take to move the caltrops? not neccisarily make them go flying just scatter them and make them harmless
primemover003
07-28-05, 04:07 PM Gust of Wind... Severe wind at the very least.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zavin 07-25-05, 04:42 PM	Ok, I bought a bunch of caltrops and currently have the ability to make a tornado (winds 175+ mph), How much damage would a caltrop do if it was thrown into that wind and then struck someone? I currently have 5000 square feet of caltrops, notthat I would use all of them at once though.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-25-05, 05:02 PM	Ad hoc ruling, I would say caltrops whirling in a tornado would works as a summoned Swarm of bats, dealing 1d6 damage/round to any creature within the area of the tornado.
zavin 07-26-05, 07:51 PM	But they way I figure, a caltrop going over 175+ mph would go right through a sheet of metal, let alone bone.
CryoSilver 07-26-05, 07:57 PM	So would a crossbow bolt, and that has more mass than a caltrop, so 1d6 to 1d10 wouldn't be unreasonable, maybe with reflex DC 15 for half. Just because you can launch the caltrops does mean you can aim them very well.
kgbspy 07-26-05, 08:04 PM	ouchies, my opinion you are talking at least 1d8/caltrop that hits, and a chance to be wounded in some critical body part (eyes and so forth)
CryoSilver 07-26-05, 08:10 PM	Being in an arrow volley presents with that same chance of being injured in an eye or such, but I think called shots are avoided for a very good reason; it becomes very easy for such a system to be exploited. I would say that if you are in a square that the caltrops pass through, you take 1d10 (2d6 at the absolute maximum) damage with a Reflex save at DC 15 for half for all of them as a single attack. If you can aim them individually: damage as a dart, no strength bonus, assess as a normal ranged attack without wind penalties.
sleazeonwheels 07-26-05, 08:12 PM	Doesn't the tornado do damage by itself?
Zyphria 07-26-05, 08:14 PM	Yes, and in straight AD&D, you can still run a marathon, climb mountains, and dance a jig with 1hp.
High Octane 07-26-05, 08:42 PM	Caltrops in a tornado. Ouch.
CryoSilver 07-26-05, 09:00 PM	Yes, but if you look at stats for other weapons, such as guns, they still only do 1d8 to 1d12, and those projectiles are going sugnificantly faster than 175 mph (and the caltrop won't reach those speeds). Furthermore, looking at stats for dart traps and such, 1d8-10 seems more than reasonable to me, going as high as 2d10 if you use a lot of caltrops, and I mean a LOT.
Antioch 07-26-05, 11:57 PM	Vaal has the same idea I do; treat it as a swarm effect. Creatures caught within the swarm automatically suffer damage/round. Due to the abstract nature of hit points and damage allocation, dont make it too high as well.
Keenath 07-27-05, 12:32 AM	From the System Reference Document: Tornado (CR 10): All flames are extinguished. All ranged attacks are impossible (even with siege weapons), as are Listen checks. Instead of being blown away (see Table: Wind Effects), characters in close proximity to a tornado who fail their Fortitude saves are sucked toward the tornado. Those who come in contact with the actual funnel cloud are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 rounds, taking 6d6 points of damage per round, before being violently expelled (falling damage may apply). While a tornado’s rotational speed can be as great as 300 mph, the funnel itself moves forward at an average of 30 mph (roughly 250 feet per round). A tornado uproots trees, destroys buildings, and causes other similar forms of major destruction.The D&D rules don't take into account what the tornado has sucked up to deal damage with. It's 6d6 per round for 1d10 rounds. A tornado on the ocean does this damage; so does a tornado that just sucked up the combined contents of a knife factory and a glass-blower's shop. Throwing caltrops into a tornado doesn't increase or alter the damage at all, it's just where the 6d6 damage is coming from at the moment.
primemover003 07-27-05, 01:26 AM	:thumbsup: What Keenath said... there's already enough debris in a Twister, adding caltrops is a shotglass in a swimming pool.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-27-05, 02:59 AM	With his ridiculous number of caltrops though, I'd change the damage type to slashing.
mrurbanitesmiley 07-27-05, 04:24 AM	But caltrops are pokey, not slicey!
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-27-05, 01:06 PM	But caltrops are pokey, not slicey! Moving at 150mph over the skin, you better believe they're slicy ;)
bjorntfh 07-27-05, 01:30 PM	I'd say if you add 5000 caltrops to a tornado you ought to increase the damage by 1 die (to 6d8.) Mind you you're probably never getting those caltrops back.
WhiteHarness 07-28-05, 10:39 AM	But they way I figure, a caltrop going over 175+ mph would go right through a sheet of metal, let alone bone. Yes, but arrows go 175mph or faster, and the point of a caltrop doesn't have the same mass behind it as an arrowhead; moreover caltrops are hardly aerodynamic and would have a lot more drag than an arrow. Finally, the other prongs on a caltrop that stick out at angles to whichever point had struck the target would act like the 'wings' on a winged spear: they'd stop it from going in too deep and therefore wouldn't do all that much damage. I don't see a caltrop traveling at 175mph as being much of a threat to a sheet of metal at all, unless it were aluminum foil. If it were going at say, the rate of a bullet, then maybe...
Vahenir 07-28-05, 10:54 AM	I'm pretty much in agreement that, besides cutting you up, this wouldn't really change how the tornado hurts you. However - if you really must have it do something special, why not just treat it like a Blade Barrier spell with a Caster Level equal to half of your character level, in addition to normal tornado damage?
tharivol266 07-28-05, 11:08 AM	what is the rating for wind that'd itd take to move the caltrops? not neccisarily make them go flying just scatter them and make them harmless
primemover003 07-28-05, 04:07 PM	Gust of Wind... Severe wind at the very least.