Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kanachi 08-24-06, 07:36 PM	Bellow is an idea i had for an item i thought might be quite interesting to use. Think of the Camodus as a floating CCTV camera or one of those fiberoptic cameras you see in swat style films. Could any of you sudjest how must such an item would cost to buy? Camodus A Camodus is essentially a sufisticated spyglass which has been magically enhanced with the ability to fly and comunicate the images it see to its master as well as take instructions through a telepahic link. A Camodus is a tiny construct creature that sends images of whatever it sees to a flat crystal approximately 2” in diameter. The Camodus’s master commonly carries this crystal either in her hand, as an amulate or strapped to her wrist. Whomever has the crystal upon their person may communicate with the Camodus and give it orders as though the two shared a telepathic bond. Once an order is given the Camodus will attempt to complete it to the best of its abilities. a Camodus that moves beyond 1 mile from its master will attempt to return to its master, should such an action be impossible it will deactivate and slowly float to the ground at a rate of 10 feet per round. A Camodus may adjust its vision at will to 120 ft Darkvision A Camodus is a tiny creature A Camodus has a “Perfect” flying ability A Camodus has no sense of hearing or smell and a golem like inteligence. A Camodus’s master may attempt appraise, search and spot check upon anything she sees within the crystal and have the camodus focus upon an object, creature, or area in order to offer a +4 bonus to these skills. A Camodus has evasion and if within 100 ft and directly under the controle of its master it has improved evasion. A Camodus has no limbs to manipulate items but may carry up to 5lbs of weight and still act as normal if they are secured to it. A Camodus has a hide skill equel to that of its masters base ranks +10 and move silently skill of 25.
Kanachi 08-25-06, 05:21 AM	if i were to make the Camodus have the equivilent hardness and durability to a short sword and then prised it at 25,000gp would people regard that as fare?
risner 08-25-06, 08:48 AM	The floating ability is similar to Floating Book (DR341 p65) but maybe twice as powerful because you will not be limited to 3 foot off the ground (2x 500 gp.) Darkvision 120 is double Goggles of Night (DMG p258) so (2x 12,000 gp.) Make it a Homunculus (Tiny construct MM p154) 50gp(clay) +500gp(lab) +2100gp(needs Craft Contruct, so half if you have the feat and are making it yourself) Upgrade Fly to Perfect in exchange for lowering STR to 3, losing Poison ability, lose smell, lose hearing, set INT to -, and modify the Skills as below. Leave Spot +4 and Hide at +14, no way to easily compute "Master Base Ranks" for pricing. Appraise +4 (4*4*100 = 1,600 gp) Search +4 (4*4*100 = 1,600 gp) Move Silently +25 (25*25*100 = 62,500 gp) Evasion (25,000 gp) and Improved Evasion if in range (price of Evasion seems only fair, leave it at the same price despite the restriction because Improved Evasion is >= Evasion and should cost more if not restricted.) 2*500+2*12,000+50+500+2,100+1,600+1,600+ 62,500+25,000+25,000 143,350 gp
Kanachi 08-25-06, 11:56 AM	a crystal ball only costs 40k and thats an item thats never put in halms way like this is. So while i agree with the way your maths adds up its not really that balanced.
risner 08-25-06, 03:02 PM	a crystal ball only costs 40k and thats an item thats never put in halms way like this is. So while i agree with the way your maths adds up its not really that balanced. A Crystal Ball does/is... 1) costs 42,000 gp. 2) not have Darkvision and if it has other visual effects, they cost lots extra. 3) not a construct. 4) not have bonus to Hide (can be seen with a automatic DC20 Int check.) 5) easily dispelled by a dispell magic. 6) not function as a Hand of the Mage also. I mean this is a Crystal Ball on steroids and just the Darkvision and Scrying abilities should cost 50,000 because See Invis Crystal Ball costs 50,000 and they are both 2nd level spells.
shavna 08-25-06, 03:48 PM	I like the idea consider it snagged for my next artificer-esk character. I'd have to agree with the OP that 143,350 gp is a little steep. Since you're basing it off of a homunculus it would only be usable by one character which would be at the very least ~30% reduction. As a good middle ground I'd say remove the bonuses to appraise, decrease the bonus to move silently or remove it altogether (since it just floats what would make sound anyways). Just removing the appraise and move silently would drop the price to ~18350 gp based on risner calculations.
risner 08-26-06, 02:14 AM	Since you're basing it off of a homunculus it would only be usable by one character which would be at the very least ~30% reduction. I based it off the Homunculus simply to have a price for the "construct" part (he wanted it to be tiny creature), but I didn't intend on having it be tied to one person. Also, the 30% reduction isn't meant to reduce the price (according to the FAQ), as there isn't much of a barrier to a player making an item for himself (or buying an item like that) so the 30% discount should only exist when selling the item (not when buying or making the item.) Doing as shavna suggests would alter the price (and I assume Evasion): The floating ability you control and if not will follow you around (2x 500 gp.) Darkvision 120 is double Goggles of Night (DMG p258) so (2x 12,000 gp.) Base the price to contruct on a Homunculus (Tiny construct MM p154) 50gp(clay) +500gp(lab) +2100gp(needs Craft Contruct, so half if you have the feat and are making it yourself) Upgrade Fly to Perfect in exchange for lowering STR to 3, losing Poison ability, lose smell, lose hearing, set INT to -, and modify the Skills as below. (So take the HP's and other abilities of the Homunculus, but ignore the harm to the master when killed?) Leave Spot +4 and Hide at +14, no way to easily compute "Master Base Ranks" for pricing. Search +4 (4*4*100 = 1,600 gp) 2*500+2*12,000+50+500+2,100+1,600 = 29,250 gp Round to a pretty 30,000 gp.
shavna 08-26-06, 12:52 PM	I based it off the Homunculus simply to have a price for the "construct" part (he wanted it to be tiny creature), but I didn't intend on having it be tied to one person. I see what you're saying now I'm playing in an eberron campaign right now that's where the tied to one person stuff came from mostly. I like the last price that you posted though I would add the optional upgrade to having the evasion and improved when in range for an extra 25,000 gp. The 30% reduction comes from what some of my players have done. I'm not claiming to completely understand them but I thought it actually did modify the price to make the item as well as the market price; mostly because if it only changed the market price then restrictions wouldn't be that cost effective, except as BBEG loot so that the party cannot use it during a battle with him. I just thought of something the method for controlling the construct is a lot like that of the shield guardian from the MM. That may or may not help it just came to mind. Kanachi I hope all this tossing around of numbers will help you with creating your item, like I said before I really like the idea and will probably use it at some point.
risner 08-27-06, 12:19 AM	The 30% reduction comes from what some of my players have done ... I thought it actually did modify the price to make the item as well as the market price; mostly because if it only changed the market price then restrictions wouldn't be that cost effective, except as BBEG loot so that the party cannot use it during a battle with him. I just thought of something the method for controlling the construct is a lot like that of the shield guardian from the MM. That may or may not help it just came to mind. A recent FAQ question went into detail on the 30% reduction saying that a restriction on a player created item isn't really a restriction and as such shouldn't make the item creation cost less. But a restriction put on an item by the DM should lower the value (market price) of the item should the player want to sell it. I used the mechanics from the Floating Book to control the camera, which allows you to move it around like a free action and if you ignore it, it will follow you staying the same distance from you. I thought that was a handy method (especially for 1,000 gp.)
shavna 08-27-06, 12:50 AM	A recent FAQ question went into detail on the 30% reduction saying that a restriction on a player created item isn't really a restriction and as such shouldn't make the item creation cost less. But a restriction put on an item by the DM should lower the value (market price) of the item should the player want to sell it. Thanks for this, I'll be sure to show this to the other guy that DMs for my group as well. I should probably look up this kind of stuff occationally but this issue hasn't come up recently, luckily.