Can a shield be enchanted twice. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a shield be enchanted twice. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pindar
07-06-07, 04:38 AM The SRD says a shield can be enchanted as a weapon in it's own right.

Can a shield have a set of combat enchantments and a set of defensive enchantments.

So could a shield be +1 to hit and damage and also be +2 to AC.

If it is possible to do this to a shield would the total still have to be +10 before it became an epic item?
Ketone
07-06-07, 04:42 AM I believe the shield can have up to +10 as a shield and up to +10 as a weapon at the same time. Think of it as a double weapon, only one weapon is armor.
Kouk
07-06-07, 05:51 AM Treat it as two items that occupy the same space. You can enchant the weapon part, or you can enchant the armor part, or both, but you do so separately.
Pindar
07-06-07, 06:27 AM Thanks.
Dark1ord
07-06-07, 03:44 PM "Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls (see the special ability description). A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.

As with armor, special abilities built into the shield add to the market value in the form of additions to the bonus of the shield, although they do not improve AC. A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus." (my emphasis.)

in so far as making a shield a weapon counts as a special ability, I think the quote clarifies the matter.
NobodyRemembersThis
07-06-07, 04:15 PM (my emphasis.)

in so far as making a shield a weapon counts as a special ability, I think the quote clarifies the matter.No, this is the important part:A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to ACSo, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10.

Seems reasonable.
rironin
07-06-07, 09:44 PM So, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10.

Seems reasonable.Where did you get the part about how the combined total of pluses for the weapon part and the armor part can't exceed +10? The weapon part and the armor part are totally separate...
RavenGraygem
07-06-07, 10:00 PM I have a simple method that works pretty well. The shield can have up to a total of +10 in enhancements, regardless of whether it's meant for offense or defense. The shield's attack and damage bonus is equal to its (magical) AC bonus (essentially, you trade +whatever to AC for that round to +whatever to attack and damage with the shield).
Archangel_Tyrael
07-06-07, 10:37 PM I have a simple method that works pretty well. The shield can have up to a total of +10 in enhancements, regardless of whether it's meant for offense or defense. The shield's attack and damage bonus is equal to its (magical) AC bonus (essentially, you trade +whatever to AC for that round to +whatever to attack and damage with the shield).

That's exactly what the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldSpikes) says can't happen... :thinks:

Just get a Spiked Shield. That way you do more damage with your shield bashes and the spike enhancements are separate from the shield enhancements. Don't forget to give the spikes Defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending)! :evillaugh
RavenDrake
07-07-07, 02:18 AM That's exactly what the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldSpikes) says can't happen... :thinks:

Just get a Spiked Shield. That way you do more damage with your shield bashes and the spike enhancements are separate from the shield enhancements. Don't forget to give the spikes Defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending)! :evillaugh

That's kind of silly, really.

I mean, really, a Spiked Shield is a single item. You don't get the spikes at the corner store and then nail them to your new shield... a shield is either Spiked or not.

If you're willing to let a spiked shield be seperately enchanted as weapon(with full +10 bonuses) and as a shield (again with full +10) then you should allow any shield that can be used to bash to do the same, particularly when the Shield Spikes and other shield entries use the exact same language to describe enhancing them(ie "enchanted as a weapon in it's own right.", which I've always taken to mean the item can get both +10 in weapon enhancements and +10 in shield enhancements)
Dark1ord
07-07-07, 08:15 AM No, this is the important part:A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to ACSo, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10.
but that's just cost (as in, money). doesn't say anything about bonus limits... hm?
Khadmus
07-07-07, 09:54 AM Can a weapon be psionic & magic? For example, A +5 Reflecting, +1 Flaming Frost Shock Corrosive Holy Axiomatic, +5 Coup de Grace Shield?
Moldiver
07-07-07, 10:12 AM Can a weapon be psionic & magic? For example, A +5 Reflecting, +1 Flaming Frost Shock Corrosive Holy Axiomatic, +5 Coup de Grace Shield?

IIRC yes. I believe there was a Sage Advice topic on that. You still have to abide by the total enchantment limit. It doesn't get a psionic +10 and a magical +10. Just one limit of +10 and/or 200,000.
NobodyRemembersThis
07-07-07, 11:52 AM but that's just cost (as in, money). doesn't say anything about bonus limits... hm?Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities.

So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total.

So it would be totally possible to have an enchanted shield that is +5 for AC, +5 to hit/damage (total of +10). Cost? 25000gp for the AC + 50000gp for the attack. Total of 75000gp.
rironin
07-07-07, 01:51 PM Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities.

So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total.

So it would be totally possible to have an enchanted shield that is +5 for AC, +5 to hit/damage (total of +10). Cost? 25000gp for the AC + 50000gp for the attack. Total of 75000gp.I was sooo against this at first, but looking at the bashing shield enhancement is giving me pause. Bashing is actually really weird, since it's a +1 (armor) ability that makes your shield a +1 weapon. That certainly muddies things a bit in my mind, especially since it appears that this would give you a +1 weapon for half the cost, and one that deals more damage than a shield spike to begin with.

I don't even know how you'd go about enchanting a bashing shield further as a weapon. But it does open me up to the idea that they really did want to force you down the path of using spikes if you really wanted to get a separate magical weapon on your shield.
Nom
07-08-07, 08:35 AM So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total.Uh, no they're not. There is one scale for weapons and one scale for armour, and they don't touch each other. Adding a +1 weapon ability to a shield is priced as a +1 weapon ability. It is not an armour ability or enhancement in any way, form or manner.

Look at the example on DMG pg 217: you'll notice that the armour abilities and the weapon abilities are simply added together, with no interaction. Similarly, the answer to the question of "what is the total enhancement bonus of a +5 armour, +3 weapon shield" is "+5 armour, +3 weapon". Not +8.
NobodyRemembersThis
07-08-07, 09:50 AM A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.There is a limit of +10 total. It doesn't say armor enchantment and weapon enhcantment have a +10 limit each, it simply says +10 only.
runestar
07-08-07, 10:01 AM Well, you can have +10 armour spikes added to your +10 fullplate, so I guess enchanting shield spikes to +10 on a +10 shield should be okay. It is ex though.
Dark1ord
07-08-07, 10:11 AM Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities.
actually, I was just pointing out the fact that speaking of cost alone wouldn't clarify the weapon/armor-issues.
Uh, no they're not. There is one scale for weapons and one scale for armour, and they don't touch each other.
There is a limit of +10 total. It doesn't say armor enchantment and weapon enhcantment have a +10 limit each, it simply says +10 only.
this is why I hinted (in my first post) that the assumption is that "special ability bonus equivalents" does indeed include weapon enhancements to a shield. the text doesn't actually say so if you approach it in a certain manner (having a +10 shield that's also a +10 weapon might seem odd, but it doesn't seem to mess up things too much, hehe).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pindar 07-06-07, 04:38 AM	The SRD says a shield can be enchanted as a weapon in it's own right. Can a shield have a set of combat enchantments and a set of defensive enchantments. So could a shield be +1 to hit and damage and also be +2 to AC. If it is possible to do this to a shield would the total still have to be +10 before it became an epic item?
Ketone 07-06-07, 04:42 AM	I believe the shield can have up to +10 as a shield and up to +10 as a weapon at the same time. Think of it as a double weapon, only one weapon is armor.
Kouk 07-06-07, 05:51 AM	Treat it as two items that occupy the same space. You can enchant the weapon part, or you can enchant the armor part, or both, but you do so separately.
Pindar 07-06-07, 06:27 AM	Thanks.
Dark1ord 07-06-07, 03:44 PM	"Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls (see the special ability description). A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC. As with armor, special abilities built into the shield add to the market value in the form of additions to the bonus of the shield, although they do not improve AC. A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus." (my emphasis.) in so far as making a shield a weapon counts as a special ability, I think the quote clarifies the matter.
NobodyRemembersThis 07-06-07, 04:15 PM	(my emphasis.) in so far as making a shield a weapon counts as a special ability, I think the quote clarifies the matter.No, this is the important part:A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to ACSo, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10. Seems reasonable.
rironin 07-06-07, 09:44 PM	So, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10. Seems reasonable.Where did you get the part about how the combined total of pluses for the weapon part and the armor part can't exceed +10? The weapon part and the armor part are totally separate...
RavenGraygem 07-06-07, 10:00 PM	I have a simple method that works pretty well. The shield can have up to a total of +10 in enhancements, regardless of whether it's meant for offense or defense. The shield's attack and damage bonus is equal to its (magical) AC bonus (essentially, you trade +whatever to AC for that round to +whatever to attack and damage with the shield).
Archangel_Tyrael 07-06-07, 10:37 PM	I have a simple method that works pretty well. The shield can have up to a total of +10 in enhancements, regardless of whether it's meant for offense or defense. The shield's attack and damage bonus is equal to its (magical) AC bonus (essentially, you trade +whatever to AC for that round to +whatever to attack and damage with the shield). That's exactly what the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldSpikes) says can't happen... :thinks: Just get a Spiked Shield. That way you do more damage with your shield bashes and the spike enhancements are separate from the shield enhancements. Don't forget to give the spikes Defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending)! :evillaugh
RavenDrake 07-07-07, 02:18 AM	That's exactly what the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldSpikes) says can't happen... :thinks: Just get a Spiked Shield. That way you do more damage with your shield bashes and the spike enhancements are separate from the shield enhancements. Don't forget to give the spikes Defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending)! :evillaugh That's kind of silly, really. I mean, really, a Spiked Shield is a single item. You don't get the spikes at the corner store and then nail them to your new shield... a shield is either Spiked or not. If you're willing to let a spiked shield be seperately enchanted as weapon(with full +10 bonuses) and as a shield (again with full +10) then you should allow any shield that can be used to bash to do the same, particularly when the Shield Spikes and other shield entries use the exact same language to describe enhancing them(ie "enchanted as a weapon in it's own right.", which I've always taken to mean the item can get both +10 in weapon enhancements and +10 in shield enhancements)
Dark1ord 07-07-07, 08:15 AM	No, this is the important part:A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to ACSo, take your Armor enhancement cost, your weapon enhancement cost, and add them together - and don't go over a total of +10. but that's just cost (as in, money). doesn't say anything about bonus limits... hm?
Khadmus 07-07-07, 09:54 AM	Can a weapon be psionic & magic? For example, A +5 Reflecting, +1 Flaming Frost Shock Corrosive Holy Axiomatic, +5 Coup de Grace Shield?
Moldiver 07-07-07, 10:12 AM	Can a weapon be psionic & magic? For example, A +5 Reflecting, +1 Flaming Frost Shock Corrosive Holy Axiomatic, +5 Coup de Grace Shield? IIRC yes. I believe there was a Sage Advice topic on that. You still have to abide by the total enchantment limit. It doesn't get a psionic +10 and a magical +10. Just one limit of +10 and/or 200,000.
NobodyRemembersThis 07-07-07, 11:52 AM	but that's just cost (as in, money). doesn't say anything about bonus limits... hm?Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities. So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total. So it would be totally possible to have an enchanted shield that is +5 for AC, +5 to hit/damage (total of +10). Cost? 25000gp for the AC + 50000gp for the attack. Total of 75000gp.
rironin 07-07-07, 01:51 PM	Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities. So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total. So it would be totally possible to have an enchanted shield that is +5 for AC, +5 to hit/damage (total of +10). Cost? 25000gp for the AC + 50000gp for the attack. Total of 75000gp.I was sooo against this at first, but looking at the bashing shield enhancement is giving me pause. Bashing is actually really weird, since it's a +1 (armor) ability that makes your shield a +1 weapon. That certainly muddies things a bit in my mind, especially since it appears that this would give you a +1 weapon for half the cost, and one that deals more damage than a shield spike to begin with. I don't even know how you'd go about enchanting a bashing shield further as a weapon. But it does open me up to the idea that they really did want to force you down the path of using spikes if you really wanted to get a separate magical weapon on your shield.
Nom 07-08-07, 08:35 AM	So while the "plusses" for armor and weapon don't stack, they are still added together to figure out the grand total.Uh, no they're not. There is one scale for weapons and one scale for armour, and they don't touch each other. Adding a +1 weapon ability to a shield is priced as a +1 weapon ability. It is not an armour ability or enhancement in any way, form or manner. Look at the example on DMG pg 217: you'll notice that the armour abilities and the weapon abilities are simply added together, with no interaction. Similarly, the answer to the question of "what is the total enhancement bonus of a +5 armour, +3 weapon shield" is "+5 armour, +3 weapon". Not +8.
NobodyRemembersThis 07-08-07, 09:50 AM	A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.There is a limit of +10 total. It doesn't say armor enchantment and weapon enhcantment have a +10 limit each, it simply says +10 only.
runestar 07-08-07, 10:01 AM	Well, you can have +10 armour spikes added to your +10 fullplate, so I guess enchanting shield spikes to +10 on a +10 shield should be okay. It is ex though.
Dark1ord 07-08-07, 10:11 AM	Nope. The line you bolded in your first post doesn't specify weapon or armor. It explicitly states that you cannot have a bonus greater than +10 after adding enhancement and abilities. actually, I was just pointing out the fact that speaking of cost alone wouldn't clarify the weapon/armor-issues. Uh, no they're not. There is one scale for weapons and one scale for armour, and they don't touch each other. There is a limit of +10 total. It doesn't say armor enchantment and weapon enhcantment have a +10 limit each, it simply says +10 only. this is why I hinted (in my first post) that the assumption is that "special ability bonus equivalents" does indeed include weapon enhancements to a shield. the text doesn't actually say so if you approach it in a certain manner (having a +10 shield that's also a +10 weapon might seem odd, but it doesn't seem to mess up things too much, hehe).