Can acid bypass hardness? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can acid bypass hardness? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aricanius
03-01-07, 02:34 PM I'm wondering if acid can be used for other things than just a thrown weapon, such as pouring it into a lock to try and bypass it. The problem is that acid only does 1d6 damage, which isn't enough to get past the hardness of any metals.

Has anyone encountered something like this, any house rules, or is there a rule in a book somewhere that I haven't read?
TessarrianDM
03-01-07, 02:51 PM The only reference I can find is in the PHB (pg. 165, under Energy Attacks), where it states that acid deals damage to most objects as it does to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally. "Apply it normally" means subtract the hardness first. THerefore, I would say that unless a large enough quantity is used at one time (dealing more than 1d6 points of damage), a flask of acid would not be effective.
However, farther down on the same page, under "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks", it says that the DM may rule that "certain attacks are especially successful against some objects", dealing double damage and bypassing hardness. It becomes a DM call.
Rayous
03-01-07, 02:52 PM From the SRD
"Hardness

Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).
Hit Points

An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined.

Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections.
Energy Attacks

Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness."

It looks like it does full damage but still is affected by hardness.
tarkin
03-01-07, 02:53 PM The FAQ confirms that Hardness DOES apply. The only bonus about acid is that you don't get penalized the way fire and electrcity are.
yonman
03-01-07, 03:49 PM The FAQ confirms that Hardness DOES apply. The only bonus about acid is that you don't get penalized the way fire and electrcity are.

Tarkin is correct, I originally thought Acid was different with respect to Hardness, but if you read the FAQ it clears that up as the wording in the original text is kinda confusing.
ShinAkuma2
03-01-07, 04:02 PM I think you'd need some pretty nasty stuff to eat through most metals in real life.

As it stands, there are spells that do specify that they bypass hardness, so if spellcasting is an option, you could do some research.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-01-07, 06:59 PM The rogue pulling out a vial of [insert random acidic creature you never see because the budget is way to low to pay a college student to run around in a foam-and-spray paint costume] bile is a fantasy staple. As long as it is slow, expensive, and useless in combat, it is fully DM discretion with little impact on the game. Say, a 50gp (and fragile) ground-glass buret/seperatory funnel that drips a 10gp dose of acid which eats through 10hp metal in 1 minute.
cwslyclgh
03-01-07, 07:05 PM the acid of the babau demon specifically states that it ignores hardness, there for it make a good canditate for the acid that the rogue in the hypothetical situation is using.
GhostStepper
03-01-07, 08:16 PM Stonebreaker Acid in the AaEG may overcome hardness IIRC. Id have to check though.
oracle71
03-01-07, 09:35 PM The biggest problem with using acid against most metals is that even when they are capable of dissolving the metal, it would either take too long to be useful, or it would take too much acid to do enough damage to the object. One vial of a highly concentrated, powerful acid may be enough to dissolve away a typical lock, or at least weaken it enough to make it easier to break.

It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to houserule that in certain circumstances, acid attacks on metal reduce the metal's hardness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aricanius 03-01-07, 02:34 PM	I'm wondering if acid can be used for other things than just a thrown weapon, such as pouring it into a lock to try and bypass it. The problem is that acid only does 1d6 damage, which isn't enough to get past the hardness of any metals. Has anyone encountered something like this, any house rules, or is there a rule in a book somewhere that I haven't read?
TessarrianDM 03-01-07, 02:51 PM	The only reference I can find is in the PHB (pg. 165, under Energy Attacks), where it states that acid deals damage to most objects as it does to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally. "Apply it normally" means subtract the hardness first. THerefore, I would say that unless a large enough quantity is used at one time (dealing more than 1d6 points of damage), a flask of acid would not be effective. However, farther down on the same page, under "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks", it says that the DM may rule that "certain attacks are especially successful against some objects", dealing double damage and bypassing hardness. It becomes a DM call.
Rayous 03-01-07, 02:52 PM	From the SRD "Hardness Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). Hit Points An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined. Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections. Energy Attacks Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness." It looks like it does full damage but still is affected by hardness.
tarkin 03-01-07, 02:53 PM	The FAQ confirms that Hardness DOES apply. The only bonus about acid is that you don't get penalized the way fire and electrcity are.
yonman 03-01-07, 03:49 PM	The FAQ confirms that Hardness DOES apply. The only bonus about acid is that you don't get penalized the way fire and electrcity are. Tarkin is correct, I originally thought Acid was different with respect to Hardness, but if you read the FAQ it clears that up as the wording in the original text is kinda confusing.
ShinAkuma2 03-01-07, 04:02 PM	I think you'd need some pretty nasty stuff to eat through most metals in real life. As it stands, there are spells that do specify that they bypass hardness, so if spellcasting is an option, you could do some research.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-01-07, 06:59 PM	The rogue pulling out a vial of [insert random acidic creature you never see because the budget is way to low to pay a college student to run around in a foam-and-spray paint costume] bile is a fantasy staple. As long as it is slow, expensive, and useless in combat, it is fully DM discretion with little impact on the game. Say, a 50gp (and fragile) ground-glass buret/seperatory funnel that drips a 10gp dose of acid which eats through 10hp metal in 1 minute.
cwslyclgh 03-01-07, 07:05 PM	the acid of the babau demon specifically states that it ignores hardness, there for it make a good canditate for the acid that the rogue in the hypothetical situation is using.
GhostStepper 03-01-07, 08:16 PM	Stonebreaker Acid in the AaEG may overcome hardness IIRC. Id have to check though.
oracle71 03-01-07, 09:35 PM	The biggest problem with using acid against most metals is that even when they are capable of dissolving the metal, it would either take too long to be useful, or it would take too much acid to do enough damage to the object. One vial of a highly concentrated, powerful acid may be enough to dissolve away a typical lock, or at least weaken it enough to make it easier to break. It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to houserule that in certain circumstances, acid attacks on metal reduce the metal's hardness.