Can an AoO provoke another AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can an AoO provoke another AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Madspy1337
08-30-06, 08:27 PM For instance: When you get an AoO, and instead of attacking you either disarm, sunder, trip or make an unarmed attack (not monk). Does this allow your opponent to get an AoO on you? If so, can this go on endlessly?
Kurazumu
08-30-06, 08:37 PM Yes, I believe you do also incur an AoO if this event occurs. However, I beleive without the Combat Reflexes feat you would only get 1 AoO per round. Please correct me if I am wrong. As this is on the top of my head and very fuzzy at the moment :)
Jovknee
08-30-06, 08:41 PM Yes an AoO can provoke an AoO. For instance.

Enemy starts to cast a spell provoking an AoO from you. You respond by trying to trip him (without Improved trip), thus provoking an AoO from him. He in turns trys to trip you in turn also without Improved trip. Now if you have Combat reflexes you get another AoO on him. Now you 2 can attempt to trip each other for awhile, but eventually someone with run out of AoO's that they can preform, your dex is not limitless. When figuring what happens with all this, you start with the last AoO that was provoked. If you go through all that trip attempts and none succeed, the mage gets to cast his spell.
Pangeon
08-30-06, 11:00 PM Yes an AoO can provoke an AoO. For instance.

Enemy starts to cast a spell provoking an AoO from you. You respond by trying to trip him (without Improved trip), thus provoking an AoO from him. He in turns trys to trip you in turn also without Improved trip. Now if you have Combat reflexes you get another AoO on him. Now you 2 can attempt to trip each other for awhile, but eventually someone with run out of AoO's that they can preform, your dex is not limitless. When figuring what happens with all this, you start with the last AoO that was provoked. If you go through all that trip attempts and none succeed, the mage gets to cast his spell.

That just seems silly. He's casting a spell, he can't take an AoO. If that's not RAW, it's my new houserule. Generally speaking, if you're doing something that provokes an AoO, that's what you're doing, and you wouldn't stop what you were doing to take the AoO (although you could, losing the action you were performing. In your example, the enemy spellcaster could attempt to trip his opponent, or he could cast his spell, but not both.)

In a nutshell, if you can make AoOs on your turn, you're effectivly getting free actions.
dvlsadvct
08-30-06, 11:07 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a (All about attacks of opportunity)

This should help clear up the mess.
sherrod1025
09-03-06, 06:01 PM No....you have no idea. Try this chain of events on for size, that recently came up in our group.

2 Fighters, with Combat reflexes and high dex scores...both with the Karmic Strike feat from the Comp. Warrior book. And each were wearing identical armor with damage reduction (dwarven plate -ish, with dmg red 3/-)
They get into a punching duel.
So, each round they were taking the penalties to their AC for the Karmic strike feats and effectively giving each other free shots. This was the most action packed 30 round combat I have seen in a LONG time. It played out something like this...
Player 1 swings.....he hits. Activates AoO from player 2. He swings back...he hits....it activates AoO from player 1...so on and so forth. With both fighters having a 16 or higher dex, and being over 6th level they were both effectively attacking 6 times per round but doing little or no damage to each other because of the damage reduction. All in all it was fight in futilitiy and Endurance checks were put into effect, but entertaining none-the-less.
After the fight was over, our DM threw up his hands and said..."the next time Karmic strike is taken in one of his settings he'll find a way to make sure its versus an army of longbowmen"

But yes, the chain of events that kick off because of AoO seem less than practical, but it's not unheard of for one of these AoO optimized characters to be attacking MANY times/round..for mucho damage..or controlling the combat setting (trippers).
StevenO
09-03-06, 08:31 PM Using the spellcasting AoO trigger may not be the best example.

Perhaps a better example: An opponent is moving past you - triggers AoO. You really don't want him to pass so you decide try to use trip without the feat. That triggers an AoO for the opponent who suddenly notices an opening as you prepare to trip so he decides to try to trip you instead triggering another AoO. Now if you have another AoO due to combat reflexes you can respond to this latest trigger or just start to resolve them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Madspy1337 08-30-06, 08:27 PM	For instance: When you get an AoO, and instead of attacking you either disarm, sunder, trip or make an unarmed attack (not monk). Does this allow your opponent to get an AoO on you? If so, can this go on endlessly?
Kurazumu 08-30-06, 08:37 PM	Yes, I believe you do also incur an AoO if this event occurs. However, I beleive without the Combat Reflexes feat you would only get 1 AoO per round. Please correct me if I am wrong. As this is on the top of my head and very fuzzy at the moment :)
Jovknee 08-30-06, 08:41 PM	Yes an AoO can provoke an AoO. For instance. Enemy starts to cast a spell provoking an AoO from you. You respond by trying to trip him (without Improved trip), thus provoking an AoO from him. He in turns trys to trip you in turn also without Improved trip. Now if you have Combat reflexes you get another AoO on him. Now you 2 can attempt to trip each other for awhile, but eventually someone with run out of AoO's that they can preform, your dex is not limitless. When figuring what happens with all this, you start with the last AoO that was provoked. If you go through all that trip attempts and none succeed, the mage gets to cast his spell.
Pangeon 08-30-06, 11:00 PM	Yes an AoO can provoke an AoO. For instance. Enemy starts to cast a spell provoking an AoO from you. You respond by trying to trip him (without Improved trip), thus provoking an AoO from him. He in turns trys to trip you in turn also without Improved trip. Now if you have Combat reflexes you get another AoO on him. Now you 2 can attempt to trip each other for awhile, but eventually someone with run out of AoO's that they can preform, your dex is not limitless. When figuring what happens with all this, you start with the last AoO that was provoked. If you go through all that trip attempts and none succeed, the mage gets to cast his spell. That just seems silly. He's casting a spell, he can't take an AoO. If that's not RAW, it's my new houserule. Generally speaking, if you're doing something that provokes an AoO, that's what you're doing, and you wouldn't stop what you were doing to take the AoO (although you could, losing the action you were performing. In your example, the enemy spellcaster could attempt to trip his opponent, or he could cast his spell, but not both.) In a nutshell, if you can make AoOs on your turn, you're effectivly getting free actions.
dvlsadvct 08-30-06, 11:07 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a (All about attacks of opportunity) This should help clear up the mess.
sherrod1025 09-03-06, 06:01 PM	No....you have no idea. Try this chain of events on for size, that recently came up in our group. 2 Fighters, with Combat reflexes and high dex scores...both with the Karmic Strike feat from the Comp. Warrior book. And each were wearing identical armor with damage reduction (dwarven plate -ish, with dmg red 3/-) They get into a punching duel. So, each round they were taking the penalties to their AC for the Karmic strike feats and effectively giving each other free shots. This was the most action packed 30 round combat I have seen in a LONG time. It played out something like this... Player 1 swings.....he hits. Activates AoO from player 2. He swings back...he hits....it activates AoO from player 1...so on and so forth. With both fighters having a 16 or higher dex, and being over 6th level they were both effectively attacking 6 times per round but doing little or no damage to each other because of the damage reduction. All in all it was fight in futilitiy and Endurance checks were put into effect, but entertaining none-the-less. After the fight was over, our DM threw up his hands and said..."the next time Karmic strike is taken in one of his settings he'll find a way to make sure its versus an army of longbowmen" But yes, the chain of events that kick off because of AoO seem less than practical, but it's not unheard of for one of these AoO optimized characters to be attacking MANY times/round..for mucho damage..or controlling the combat setting (trippers).
StevenO 09-03-06, 08:31 PM	Using the spellcasting AoO trigger may not be the best example. Perhaps a better example: An opponent is moving past you - triggers AoO. You really don't want him to pass so you decide try to use trip without the feat. That triggers an AoO for the opponent who suddenly notices an opening as you prepare to trip so he decides to try to trip you instead triggering another AoO. Now if you have another AoO due to combat reflexes you can respond to this latest trigger or just start to resolve them.